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Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: colockumelk on January 06, 2012, 10:33:44 AM


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Title: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: colockumelk on January 06, 2012, 10:33:44 AM
There is good news for this herd.  There has been a  Colockum Wildlife Area Manager position made up for the Region 3 team.  This is great news.  Now there is a guy who will be focused solely on the Colockum area.  I think this will be a positive change for the region. The name of the manager is Pete Lopushinsky.  He will work with the region 3 bio Jeff Bernatowicz.  (Yes I know apparantly they pick guys based off how hard their last name is to pronounce :)  )  There is going to be a meeting in Ellensburg on January 11th.  Here is the link for the information.  http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/release.php?id=jan0412a (http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/release.php?id=jan0412a)
 
Hello everyone my name is Aaron Blanchard. I am the Region 2 VP. A big reason why I got elected was because of my knowledge and passion for the Colockum Elk herd. So a big part of what I will bring to the table and talk about is putting out the issues and information about the Colockum Elk herd and then try and organize help. So the first few posts will be all education bringing to light the issues. After that I am going to try and organize some volunteers to attend the meetings and also to help volunteer their time and equipment with road managment. The first post is about the major issues. I encourage everyone to read it. It is a paper I wrote in 2010. It is very informative.

The only thing I would change on it is to say that one of the issues and reasons the Colockum elk herd's bull:cow ratio sucks is because the harvest has solely been focused on bulls (spikes mostly) and none of it has been on cows. Whereas the Peaches Ridge sub-herd has had its harvest focused evenly between cows and bulls. Thank you for your time and interest.

Here is the Summary of the paper.

The Colockum Elk herd has taken a nose dive in the last ten years. This is due to the fact that too many spikes are harvested each year during the general rifle season. Not enough spikes live through the hunting season to offset the amount of branch bulls killed by poachers, tribal hunters and licensed hunters each year. The Colockum elk herd experiences a higher than usual spike harvest when compared to Peaches Ridge sub‐herd due to the Colockum’s unique migration pattern coupled with a high density of roads and lack of cover and concealment. This fact coupled with the increase of tribal harvest results in a consistent loss of bull recruitment each year. What is needed is to either further increase the restrictions to the current general hunting season such as a cut in the number of days during the general season or to go to permit only altogether.

Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 06, 2012, 10:35:01 AM

Here is the article the Yakima Herald wrote on my paper

http://sports.yakimablogs.com/index.php?s=Colockum+elk+herd (http://sports.yakimablogs.com/index.php?s=Colockum+elk+herd)

Here is an updated situation report on the Colockum elk herd.

The basic issue is this. Yearling bull recruitment is extremely low. Only about 20% live through the general season. A large increase in tribal hunting and poaching is having a growing impact on mature bulls. Cow harvest has been eliminated since 2004 so the harvest has been completely focused on bulls. So tje cow population has increased and the bull population has decreased. The bull:cow ratio is 5:100 which is 4x lower than what it should be. The low bull to cow ratio significantly increases the bull populations natural mortality rate and also decreases the calf:cow ratio which is 27:100, which is 2x lower than it should be.

The reason for the low spike recruitment is a couple of things. For one the herd is not migratory. Unlike other herds which stays high far away from roads until tje snow flies, the Colockum herd stays low amongst the roads all year long. Speaking of roads the Colockum has a lot of roads and coupled with tje open terrain makes it so the elk don't have many places to escape hunting pressure. The area is open so there isn't a lot of places to hide. Also tje area is extremely popular so a lot of people hunt it.

This part might be getting into the weeds a bit. There is a game preserve called the Arthur Coffin Game Preserve. The elk know they are safe there so by the time the hunting season rolls around 50% of the elk herd is in or around the preserve. There are a lot of roads around the preserve. So it makes these elk very susceptible to poaching and tribal hunters. During the general season the place is literally ringed with camps. Since the place is so crowded with elk the least dominant elk get kicked out. The less dominant being spikes. So they hang around the outside of the preserve and are very vulnerable to licensed hunters.

What needs to happen is this. Start with antlerless tags given out. Try to cut tje cow population from 3,690 to 2,700. This will focus some of the harvest off of yearling bulls creating some escapement. Start some road closures to provide escapement. I suggested to the WDFW to create a roadless area around the game preserve of 1 mile. This would create the most amount of escapement for the most amount of elk for the cheapest. Them they need to close off a lot of the spur roads on the Naneum Basin. Again creating more escapement. In the Quilomene they need to continue with road closures during the winter to protect wintering elk from harassment, poachers and to decrease tribal harvest during the winter months. All of the road closures I mentioned would not only create escapement for the elk during tje general season nut it would also protect them from poachers and reduce tribal harvest.

Road closures would create escapement for yearling bulls and mean a higjer bull recruitment. The cow permits wpuld also raise bull recruitmemt by focusing some of the harvest on cows. A decrease in cows due to harvest and increased bull recruitment would double the bull to cow ratio in 3 years. GUARANTEED! No matter what we do we are still not going to fix the herd unless the Yakamas do the right thing and restrict their harvest or at the very least start reporting harvest. The Colockum has become very popular amongst the Yakamas and is a trophy hunt for them. They have a significant impact on the herd. In 2006 it was estimated ny tje WDFW that they harvested 40 bulls. That number is definately higher since more of their members hunt the Colockum. The only thing the WDFW can do is close roads to restrict road access.

The WDFW could give out 280 cow tags to archery, 130 to muzzle loader, and 270 for rifle. These numbers would harvest about 300 cows a year. A last resort would be to go permit only for bulls. If this happened the WDFW could hand out 150 any bull tags to archery, 60 to muzzle loader and 160 to rifle.

So something along the lines of this. We could afford to harvest 300 cows a year. And the herd would stay at 4,500 elk which is the WDFW objective. These numbers would also bring the bull:cow ratio up to 15:100 within 5 years.


Rifle: 228 cows x 85% success rate equals 270 cow permits
ML: 52 cows x 40% success rate equals permits 130 cow permits
Archery: 70 cows x 25% success rate equals 280 cow permits
Total Permits 680
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 06, 2012, 10:35:41 AM
Here is the first letter I would like to take to the WDFW.

According to the WDFW herd managment plan for the Colockum which was produced in 2006. The herd objective was for 4,500 animals. Well the Colockum elk herd is now at over 4,800 animals. So the herd has reached its objective. Although one question is why was the herd objective in 1998 6,500 animals but 8 years later that number changed to 4,500? That is a pretty large change in numbers!

The Colockum's elk herd may be at its objective but the overall herd health is horrible. The bull to cow ratio is 5:100, the branch bull:cow ratio is 2:100. And the calf:cow ratio is 27:100. The ONLY reason the herd is at its objective is because there hasn't been antlerless elk hunting other than Master Hunters since 2004. Yes the elk herd is at its objective but this does not mean the elk herd is healthy. It just means the number of cows has skyrocketed.

One of the reasons that the bull:cow ratio is 4x lower than what it should be is because ALL of the harvest has been focused on bulls. There has been no antlerless managment. One of the reasons that the calf:cow ratio is twice as low as it should be is because there are so many barren cows walking around. Here is why an elk herd with an extremely low bull:cow ratio is detrimental to herd health. Since there are so many cows compared to bulls the rut lasts alot longer than in a healthy herd. The extended rut coupled with sometimes a second rut really wears down the bulls in the herd. This makes them much weaker going into the winter and makes them much more suseptible to winter kill and predators. Therefore the Colockum elk herd is seeing a higher bull mortality rate than in places such as Yakima that has a healthy bull to cow ratio. Another impact is there is alot more cows and alot of barren cows that the bulls have to compete with for feed during the winter.

The other impact that a small bull:cow ratio has on the elk herd is with calf mortality rates. Since the bull:cow ratio is so low alot of cows do not get bred in September. So they will come into estrus again in October and even in November. The cows that are bred late will give birth to their calves late in the year and makes for higher winter mortality rates amongst the calves.

The Colockum elk herd may have reached its objective but is nowhere near being healthy. Something has to be done to correct the bul:cow ratio which is 3-4x lower than what it should be. One way to correct this is to bring back antlerless hunting in the Colockum. Determine how many cows you want harvested and then issue out the appropriate amount of antlerless permits for archery, muzzle loader and rifle seasons. Yes even make the archery guys have to draw a cow permit in order to harvest a cow in the Colockum. Otherwise the Colockum would become a zoo during the early season and you would not be able to control the amount of harvest. (I am an avid bowhunter and am not sure if I would want a general season cow hunt in the Colockum)

On that note the Teannaway early season for archery should include a general season antlerless hunt. And all season in GMU 335 should not be "True Spike" it should be spike only. GMU 335 should not be managed the same as GMU's 328/329.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 06, 2012, 10:36:27 AM
Here is the second letter I would like to take to the WDFW

As all of you are aware, one of the main obstacles standing in the way of achieving a desired bull to cow ratio of 15:100 is the high amount of road density in the Colockum. Not only does this restrict the amount of escapement for the yearling bulls during the general season, but it also makes the branch bulls much more suseptible to tribal hunters and poachers. Actually physically closing certain roads will go along ways to helping the bull to cow ratio by allowing escapement for the yearling bulls from licensed hunters and escapement for the branch bulls from tribal hunters and poachers.

In todays world budgets are tight for everyone. I am sure the WDFW is not any different. Therefore when we take a look at closing roads we must choose the roads that will give us the most bang for our buck. For this reason I urge you to look at the roads that surround the Arthur Coffin Game Preserve. Here is why. The Arthur Coffin game preserve is both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand it provides a sanctuary from licensed hunters. But on the other hand over 50% of the elk herd is condensed into that small area. This makes this a very lucrative spot for poachers. Another negative effect it has on the herd is because the area around the Coffin preserve is so packed with elk the less dominant adult elk are pushed off of the Preserve. The less dominant elk being the yearling bulls. During the modern season the Arthur Coffin Game Preserve is literally surrounded by hunting camps. So when these yearling bulls are pushed off of the protective sanctuary they are pushed into the sights of licensed hunters. This makes the yearling bulls very suseptible to hunters making for a very low yearling bull recruitment rate.

The area around the Arthur Coffin Game Preserve is packed with hunters during the general modern season. For good reason, the area is packed with elk. Another reason is that there is alot road access to, and around the game preserve. If we are going to have a game preserve up there then lets actually make it a game preserve where it is a place for the elk to escape to. Not a place for the elk to get crammed into and then get surrounded by hunters. It completely defeats the purpose. My proposal is this. The elk every year cram themselves into this area, and will continue to do so. So lets focus on this area when deciding which roads to close. Because this will give us the most bang for our buck. We will be providing escapement for the most amount of animals for the money.

My proposal is not to enlarge the Arthur Coffin Game Preserve. It is to close any and all roads that are within 1 mile of the game preserve. Basically make it so that if hunters want to hunt near the game preserve they are going to have to walk in to do it. And they wont be able to camp right next to it. This 1 mile buffer around the game preserve will significantly enhance the amount of escapement for the yearling bulls. On the other side of the coin if the tribal hunters or especially the poachers wish to harvest branch antlered bulls near the reserve then they will also have to walk in to do so. The Colockum has become extremely popular amongst tribal hunters. And for good reason, the area provides trophy hunting with alot of easy road access (something hunters of all races look for). This would protect alot of the branch bulls from tribal hunters since just like licensed hunters most stay within 1/2 of the roads. And as for poachers, typically poachers like to stay near roads to make a quick kill and are able to leave quickly. Currently poachers can easily make quick kills in this preserve. If there was a 1 mile buffer with no road access around the Arhtur Coffin Game Preserve the poachers would not be able to hunt the preserve without significantly increasing their chances of getting caught.

Whatever roads you choose to close it must be done smartly and efficiently. It is my opinion that since most of the Colockum elk herd is near or on the Game Preserve our money should be spent trying to provide escapement in the area that affects the largest amount of elk. Thank you for your time.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: 400out on January 06, 2012, 10:36:47 AM
 :tup: :tup: that sounds like a step in the right direction  :tup:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 06, 2012, 10:47:01 AM
I have emailed the Colockum Wildlife area manager (who is new) Pete Lopushinsky.  He said that they have already bought and purchased 10 new gates that they plan on putting up in the Colockum.  They plan on putting them on roads that are already closed to access but need to be physically closed.  Of course the Kittitas Valley Field and Stream are very much against this happening.  They are also against closing roads in the wintering grounds.  They are against any and all road closures. 

I think that our stance on the Colockum elk herd and the deer herd should be doing what is needed to help the animals out.  This means some road closures.  So the WDFW is leaning heavilly on the opinion of the Kittitas Valley Field and Stream for their opinions which is why there havn't been any road closures.  So I think that we have a chance to give the WDFW the back bone and support they need to do what is right by the elk and deer in the area.  By giving the WDFW a wildlife group (WFW) to support them and their actions.  I think this is one thing they have been kind of waiting on. 
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 06, 2012, 10:55:08 AM
Here is a brief overview of what the Region 3 team has told me.

  Manager Lopushinsky has filed a SEPA to close about 4 miles of road in the bottom of Stray/Tekison due to erosion/sedimentation issues.  The  Kittitas Field and Stream club has been very vocal against any road closures and commented negatively about the Stray/Tekison closure.  There have been meetings with the club regarding the closure, but a final decision has been made.   

The majority of the summer/fall range for Colockum elk is controlled by DNR (Naneum State Forest).  Given budgets and local opposition, I’d be surprised if there are any in the immediate future. Your best contact would be DNR in Ellensburg for information on their road management and possibility of using volunteers.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Cougeyes on January 06, 2012, 12:38:57 PM
I dont understand why WDFW should be listening to and being swayed by opinions of the field and stream club.  Those guys have struck me as the ol' boys that can't seem to grasp the management needed now to help our natural resources.  I have read several of their statements in the daily record in the past and I disagree with a lot of what they say and suggest.  Their opinions on the Colockum road closures are no different. WDFW needs to consider opinions and other facts of the public and other agencies, or clubs etc.... but in the end they are the managers of the land and should know what's best for that land and the resources. 
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 06, 2012, 01:31:07 PM
When they said they have had meetings with the KVFS club I don't think it was like a formal event.  I think it was more like the Club officers asked to meet with the Region 3 team and give them their proposal and their objections to road closures.  The KVFS club is a very positive influence in the valley and does alot of great things.  But....when it comes to road closures and deer and elk they are wrong.  I don't think they have the elk and deer's best interest at heart.  I think they only have their own interest at heart. 

That being said I think the WDFW is looking for public support on this and are trying to work with groups on these issues.  Right now the KVFS club is the only group to work with.  I am hoping to change that.  I have already started emailing them and hopefully the WFW can be a group the WDFW can work with to solve issues in the Colockum.  I think the WDFW should still listen and meet with the KVFS club but... if their objections and opinions are off and will contradict progress with that herd then they should not heed their advice.  And instead should do what is right for that elk and deer herd.  After all I believe that the number one purpose and goal for the WDFW when it comes to elk and deer is to have a healthy elk and deer herd.  The tool to achieve this is using hunters.  Yes they should try and please hunters but I think we have seen that the will of hunters isn't always the right thing.  The popular thing is quite often the wrong thing. 
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: leed on January 06, 2012, 02:21:50 PM
I would like to set one thing straight.
We are not against all road closures. If good science is present we would support a closure in the interest of wildlife.  I will not go into details here becausse it will take too long but I extend an offer to anyone to attend a meeting or contact us directly for the truth and the real story and big picture. We have the facts. WDFW is good at painting a picture and using graphs and stats but the old saying is "garbage in garbage out". We want the same thing as everyone. Sustainable wildlife management and open and respected access to public lands.
 The proposed closure of a couple miles of Stray Gulch and Tekison road are in the winter range and it has nothing to do with Elk either.  If you would have done your homework you would know that.
Our next meeting is this coming Monday night at 7:30 pm at the Moose Lodge on Main St in Ellensburg. This proposed closure is our topic and we are presenting the facts. Our meetings are always open to the public.
Road density is an issue within the forested canopy area and that ground is not owned by WDFW. It is the Naneum Ridge State Forest owned by WA DNR.
I'm glad eyeryone has so much spark and interest in this herd and the land they thrive on. I hope you can put it to good use but you must be informed of ALL the underlying issues first.
By the way, go look at this.  Look at the total number of elk in the herd. Look at the Cow to Calf ratio. Look at the bull recruitment ratio.  Look at the total bull count. Look at what they say is the branched bull numbers. Look at all the hard data. Now, do the math and ask yourself. Based on those numbers, how many cows does a branched bull have to mate with to keep the herd level or increasing? A branched bull can't mate with that many cows! Their numbers on branched bulls are not correct and they even admitted that to us in a recent meeting. 
Focus on the important issues and do the homework and arm yourself with knowledge and fight for a healthy robust wildlife area!  Just make sure you have the facts.  Please.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: KillerMiller on January 06, 2012, 02:28:10 PM
I have emailed the Colockum Wildlife area manager (who is new) Pete Lopushinsky. 

Pete has been there for at least 10 yrs. Not sure why you thought he was new.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 06, 2012, 02:41:02 PM
Pete has been there for at least 10 yrs. Not sure why you thought he was new.

Really?  I have never herd of him.  Well that position is definately new at least. 

Leed did you read my paper that I wrote and attached. Did you read the article done by the Yakima Herald or did you read any of my letters I am asking people to read.  I am pretty sure my facts and data is solid. I would love for you to go into detail because I am stationed in NY and I can't attend any of your meetings otherwise I would.  I promise.  But I can't so I would like to see the data you guys have that debunks mine.   Every study I have seen shows there is a direct link between road density and herd health.  And they all show that the less roads there is the healthier the herd.   And I am not exactly pro-WDFW or a puppet of theirs.  I have been very criticle of the job they have done in the Colockum. 

Yes I know the bull:cow ratio, I know the calf:cow ratio, I know exactly why the ratios are both low and the relationship between the two.  I know the exact progression of the herd from 1999 to 2011.  I know the reasons why and the sub-reasons etc. 

I would be very interested to hear about your guys research and information.  If you could possibly email it to me I would read it as soon as possible.  I am interested in learning all I can.  I am sure there is stuff in there that I could add to my own research.  I am open to any and all suggestions. 
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: jstone on January 06, 2012, 04:39:02 PM
Hope it works out. I would like to go back and hunt my area there :tup:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: doyourtime89 on January 06, 2012, 05:31:32 PM
Yes Sir, I miss the Colockum and my dad does more then me.  We haven't been hunting there since they stopped letting bow hunters (every hunter for that matter) take cows.  Really hard to be spike only and now true spike only with a bow in there.  But we LOVE that area.  We hope to be back hunting up there sooner then later.  Hey Colockumelk, thanks for all your work, time and posts about that area. 
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 06, 2012, 08:11:43 PM
Your welcome. With any luck there's a chance the wdfw will be issuing cow permits for all three user groups.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: KillBilly on January 06, 2012, 08:18:19 PM
ColockumElk.. I read the letters. First comment, the second one is a little shorter but they only give you 3 minutes to read your testimony. I would suggest that we discuss both of your letters and come up with a shorter one to read to the commission. If we get the WFW Board of directors to approve, then we can testify as an Organization rather than as an individual. The second thought would be that both of your letters could be sent to commission@dfw.wa.gov (http://commission@dfw.wa.gov) by hundreds of the WFW and Hunt-Wa members just as they are written. Each member copies the letter and mails it with his own e-mail address attached to it.

Let me know how you want to handle it. I will drive to E-burg to represent WFW but I will not make the trip without a board sanctioned message to read.

We don't have much time
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: KillBilly on January 06, 2012, 08:20:34 PM
On a side note.. Colockum has been Elected as the Vice-President of the REgion 2 Chapter....Congrats.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Special T on January 06, 2012, 08:49:09 PM
I would like to set one thing straight.
We are not against all road closures. If good science is present we would support a closure in the interest of wildlife.  I will not go into details here becausse it will take too long but I extend an offer to anyone to attend a meeting or contact us directly for the truth and the real story and big picture. We have the facts. WDFW is good at painting a picture and using graphs and stats but the old saying is "garbage in garbage out". We want the same thing as everyone. Sustainable wildlife management and open and respected access to public lands.
 The proposed closure of a couple miles of Stray Gulch and Tekison road are in the winter range and it has nothing to do with Elk either.  If you would have done your homework you would know that.
Our next meeting is this coming Monday night at 7:30 pm at the Moose Lodge on Main St in Ellensburg. This proposed closure is our topic and we are presenting the facts. Our meetings are always open to the public.
Road density is an issue within the forested canopy area and that ground is not owned by WDFW. It is the Naneum Ridge State Forest owned by WA DNR.
I'm glad eyeryone has so much spark and interest in this herd and the land they thrive on. I hope you can put it to good use but you must be informed of ALL the underlying issues first.
By the way, go look at this.  Look at the total number of elk in the herd. Look at the Cow to Calf ratio. Look at the bull recruitment ratio.  Look at the total bull count. Look at what they say is the branched bull numbers. Look at all the hard data. Now, do the math and ask yourself. Based on those numbers, how many cows does a branched bull have to mate with to keep the herd level or increasing? A branched bull can't mate with that many cows! Their numbers on branched bulls are not correct and they even admitted that to us in a recent meeting. 
Focus on the important issues and do the homework and arm yourself with knowledge and fight for a healthy robust wildlife area!  Just make sure you have the facts.  Please.

leed If The road closure has nothing to do with elk what is it? Surly you can sum it up in one paragraph so we can least investigate the issue. You will find that many of us do homework when issues are brought up. :twocents:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 07, 2012, 08:31:52 AM
KillBilly I will come up with a concise letter for members to send out. In the meen time I believe the main purpose of this meeting is just about road management so if someone could read just theletter dealing with road issues would be great. I will also type out an updated and edited version of that letter.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 07, 2012, 08:35:47 AM
I would like to set one thing straight.
We are not against all road closures. If good science is present we would support a closure in the interest of wildlife.  I will not go into details here becausse it will take too long but I extend an offer to anyone to attend a meeting or contact us directly for the truth and the real story and big picture. We have the facts. WDFW is good at painting a picture and using graphs and stats but the old saying is "garbage in garbage out". We want the same thing as everyone. Sustainable wildlife management and open and respected access to public lands.
 The proposed closure of a couple miles of Stray Gulch and Tekison road are in the winter range and it has nothing to do with Elk either.  If you would have done your homework you would know that.
Our next meeting is this coming Monday night at 7:30 pm at the Moose Lodge on Main St in Ellensburg. This proposed closure is our topic and we are presenting the facts. Our meetings are always open to the public.
Road density is an issue within the forested canopy area and that ground is not owned by WDFW. It is the Naneum Ridge State Forest owned by WA DNR.
I'm glad eyeryone has so much spark and interest in this herd and the land they thrive on. I hope you can put it to good use but you must be informed of ALL the underlying issues first.
By the way, go look at this.  Look at the total number of elk in the herd. Look at the Cow to Calf ratio. Look at the bull recruitment ratio.  Look at the total bull count. Look at what they say is the branched bull numbers. Look at all the hard data. Now, do the math and ask yourself. Based on those numbers, how many cows does a branched bull have to mate with to keep the herd level or increasing? A branched bull can't mate with that many cows! Their numbers on branched bulls are not correct and they even admitted that to us in a recent meeting. 
Focus on the important issues and do the homework and arm yourself with knowledge and fight for a healthy robust wildlife area!  Just make sure you have the facts.  Please.

leed If The road closure has nothing to do with elk what is it? Surly you can sum it up in one paragraph so we can least investigate the issue. You will find that many of us do homework when issues are brought up. :twocents:

special T the president of the KVFS club  at a WDFW meeting flat out told me they are against any road closures in the colockum. I am also apparantly misinformed and have been told that I do more harm then good on this issue by members of their group. :dunno:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: ribka on January 07, 2012, 08:44:04 AM
I'm a WFW member and will reach out to the organization and see if I can speak too.
Will try and make the meeting too.

I contacted a WDFW rep re gates and he advised that the off road groups vehemently oppose all gates and they use attorneys to fight for them.Be tough battle but maybe some type of compromise can be reached.

I have be stating this ad naseum on here but cannot have unlimited road access to wintering grounds for deer and elk.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 07, 2012, 03:42:17 PM
KillBilly you shouldn't have to drive all that way. Luvtohunt lives in ellensburg he could read it.  8)
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: leed on January 08, 2012, 10:23:33 AM
The couple miles, ends of, both Stray Gulch and Tekison Rd are proposed to be closed to protect salmon and steelhead spawning.  However, their aren't any! Not there. We have the documentation to prove it.
I can't believe all of you beilieve everything WDFW says. Wake up people!
Road density is an issue in some areas not all and they do not have any scietific evidence to close either road.
Go do your homework.  Don't just look at their studies.  Investiagte and you will find they would love to close most if not all roads. They use elk and ESA as a toll to close roads so they don't have to maintain them. The elk herd is not being hurt by the roads. Atleast not in the winter area. What is hurting them is uncontrolled harvest and by the way the ELIMINATED the ENFORCEMENT SERGEANT position here last month. They didn't tell you that did they!
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 08, 2012, 10:39:17 AM
 Sounds about right leed!
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 08, 2012, 03:26:18 PM
Leed Where in my letter did you see anything about closing the roads you mentioned. In any case I have done my research and cited my sources. I have also lived and hunted up there where are your sources. Before you say my research and stuff is false and wrong perhaps you should have something to back it up.

If you had done your research you would know that road density has an effect on the health of an elk herd. And it has a profound effect on escapement. You are right the problem is over harvest And the #1 reason for the over harvest (licensed, tribal and poaching) is because the road density in the Colockum (specifically in 328 Naneum) is too high. I have proved my point. I would like you to prove yours. Again I am not pro WDFW I'm pro elk and pro creating more and better opportunity. 

I have one question why are you against blocking the roads that are already closed?
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 08, 2012, 03:29:23 PM
Not saying my s**t don't stink but your going to have to do better than telling us to do our homework. Just because you disagree with us doesnt meen we Havnt done our research. Where's yours that disproves ours.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: bone collector 12 on January 08, 2012, 03:45:55 PM
 :yeah:
Not saying my s**t don't stink but your going to have to do better than telling us to do our homework. Just because you disagree with us doesnt meen we Havnt done our research. Where's yours that disproves ours.  :dunno:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 08, 2012, 04:20:37 PM
Sounds about right leed!


Don't get too upset..... I meant this

 "At least not in the winter area. What is hurting them is uncontrolled harvest and by the way the ELIMINATED the ENFORCEMENT SERGEANT position here last month. They didn't tell you that did they!"
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 08, 2012, 05:45:13 PM
Elkaholic I didn't have any problem with what you said. I knew what you meant :brew:

Leed I would imagine they didn't replace that SGT because of our current budget issues. Not certain but I would suspect that played a large part in it.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Special T on January 08, 2012, 05:56:21 PM
Look, what Leed has some merit. The state wants to close roads and comes up with reasons to do so.  I asked for a short explanation of why, he gave it to you. On the west side we have seen massive road closures with gates for every reason under the sun.  I think this is a good forum for Leed to share with us why they are against certain road closures and the proof because we can work together to influence good sound decisions. I wouldn't jump his case over a short answer, but it think it is in everyone benefit for a better one
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: leed on January 08, 2012, 07:06:26 PM
I never said I was against blocking roads already closed.
First off, your barking up the wrong tree.  I told you once before.  WDFW DOES NOT OWN the land under thetrees in 328. What you refer to as the Colockum is the Naneum Ridge State Forest owned by DNR!  Talk to DN about roads not WDFW.  WDFW only controls the wintering grounds now. Remember, the land exchange. You were aware of that weren't you?
Harvest, escapement all take palce on DNR lands. Even breeding!  Only thig that happens in the wintering area is well, a bit of rest and eating.  So, are you telling me the occasional turkey huntere, chukar hunter or 4-wheeler is causing the herd to decline?  They have not conducted any in depth recreational or vegetation studies in the wintering grouds.  Wouldn't you as a lands manager want to know ALL of the possible influences on the area? Wouldn't you want to the the forage quality?  Apparently they don't. They are ONLY focused on roads and shutting them all down.
Just some food for thought.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 08, 2012, 08:09:45 PM
Okay we are apparantly talking about 2 different things. I will try to ne more specific. Yes I know DNR owns Naneum ridge and most of 328. I was aware about the land deal. Yes I know 2/3 of the elk harvest is in 328. My big push right now is to close and block the roads that are already shut down. Doing anything else will take some time with the DNR.

I am firm that something needs to be done about how easy it is to access the Athur Coffin elk reserve. It was supposed to provide escapement and protection for the elk. Which it did. But now all it does is congregate most of the elk in one spot. The spikes get pushed out and get shot by the hunters that camo around the perimeter. The branch bulls are easy pickings for the poachers and tribal hunters. If we could broker a deal to provide a roadless zone a mile around it you wouldn't have to close any roads down. The road density on the naneum basin is way higher than other places. You could close 20% of those roads and would still have more miles of road than most places. Although the point is moot for now since dnr owns it. Hopefully we can close up every single closed road though. This alone will help a lot.

Leed you asked for and I shall send you a PM in the AM.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: C-Money on January 08, 2012, 08:32:35 PM
I was up in the Colockum Saturday. A trip up was long overdue. I went and glassed one of "my spots" and viewed healthy looking elk. Most of the cows had fat little calves with them and all looked calm. Not sure where all the big boys were, obviously they were not with the cows. We saw 4 bulls, all looked no bigger than spike size. To far away even to count points. They looked like they were fine, enjoying a mild winter day. We did find a fresh set of lion tracks not far from where the herd was. :bash: Light snow came in as evening approched, very relaxing day.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Special T on January 08, 2012, 09:17:28 PM
It sounds like you 2 aren't that far off from what you think we both need. Probably some PMs will clarify. :twocents:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: JLS on January 08, 2012, 09:21:53 PM
Sounds about right leed!


Don't get too upset..... I meant this

 "At least not in the winter area. What is hurting them is uncontrolled harvest and by the way the ELIMINATED the ENFORCEMENT SERGEANT position here last month. They didn't tell you that did they!"

The Sgt position was replaced by a field officer.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 09, 2012, 04:17:52 PM
My numbers were a little off. When it comes to how many cow permits they could give out. These are based off of old harvest reports and reports taken from other similar gmu's. But based off of them this is what we know.  The Colockum elk herd has about 1,000 calves a year. Or about 500 female calves. 350 cows a year die of natural causes . This leaves a surplus of 159 cows a year that can be harvested and keep the herd number at the same level.  But since we want to shrink the herd by about 400 or so ( to get it from the current level of 4,900 down to the herd objective of 4,500) The reduction of 400 should be done over about three years. So take the 150 you already need to harvest each year and add about 150 to it to decrease the herd by 400 in three years. So to bring the herd down to 4,500 you need to harvest 300 cows a year.

Now that we have decided how many a year need to be harvested we need to split up how many of the 300 each user group gets. Rifle hunters get 65% (194), Muzzle Loaders get 15% (46) and Archers get 20% (60). Now to determine how many permits you need to issue in order to harvest the 300 you must look at your estimated harvest percent.  (Estimates are 10% high) Rifle success rate is 85%, Muzzle Loader is 50%, and Archery is 25%.

Now that we have figured out how many cows we want to harvest each year over the next three years, how many cows each user group gets and what the harvest success rate would be. We can now determine how many permits each user group would need to reach the harvest objective. Rifle hunters get 230 permits, muzzle loaders get 92 permits, and archers get 240 permits.

Let's say our science, math and estimates were spot on ( it wouldn't and each year the numbers would get tweaked based off of aerial surveys and harvest reports) and our elk herd is at the objective of 4,500 animals. Now we just want to maintain a steady population of 4,500 animals. Using the same numbers above but now only harvesting 150 cows a year we get this. Rifle hunters get 97 animals, muzzle loaders get 23 animals and archers get 30 animals. Which means rifle hunters get 115 antlerless permits, muzzle loaders get 46 permits and archers get 120 permits.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Rainier10 on January 16, 2012, 11:20:20 AM
I was over there this weekend and the cow numbers went down by three on Saturday.  There were two different herds of elk on the private property in the 3911 area.  I helped chase one herd of 50 back up to the national forest and the permit master hunters shot three in the other herd and that sent them running back up the hill.  That second herd actually ran up only to another landowners property but that landowner doesn't complain about the elk so they were safe.  I went back on Sunday and didn't see any elk in the farmers fields that had been complaining.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 16, 2012, 11:44:39 AM
Boy thats a lot of thinken and math to figure how many elks to kill. I hope i gets to help.with the killen part.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Krawdaddy20 on January 19, 2012, 03:58:57 AM
When was the last time you were in the Colockum, during a hunt? What they are doing is working, with the "True Spike Bull," restriction. I have seen it myself.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 19, 2012, 05:42:10 PM
When was the last time you were in the Colockum, during a hunt? What they are doing is working, with the "True Spike Bull," restriction. I have seen it myself.

I hunted in the Colockum for 5 days during bow season. I covered 40 miles on foot and saw over 200 elk.  It is not working nearly as well as the WDFW had hoped for.  Out of those 200 elk, 8 were branch bulls and 4 were yearling bulls.  True spike is still not allowing enough spikes to live through the rifle season to offset the amount of branch bulls killed ny tribal hunters and poachers. Hence the decrease in branch bulls.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: coachcw on January 20, 2012, 12:40:45 PM
I hunted from sept to dec probilly 15-20 days of hard hunting in the cloc . I only saw a dozen or so spikes with 3-4 true spikes , and 60-70 bdiffernt branched bulls , hundreds of cows . Of the bulls we saw 20 or so where maure sixes and fives  of those only 2-3 had any age on them . I would love to see the preasure lowwered so some of the genetics could get 7-10 years old .
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: leed on January 20, 2012, 04:22:32 PM
"Out of those 200 elk, 8 were branch bulls and 4 were yearling bulls. " If that's all you saw in five days and 40 miles you have no idea where they are! I could cover 4 miles in 5 hours and see 30+n bulls!  I agree. It's working, slowly, but working.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 20, 2012, 07:52:48 PM
"Out of those 200 elk, 8 were branch bulls and 4 were yearling bulls. " If that's all you saw in five days and 40 miles you have no idea where they are! I could cover 4 miles in 5 hours and see 30+n bulls!  I agree. It's working, slowly, but working.

Really I beg to differ. How'd you do this year?


Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: idahoelkhunter300wby on January 21, 2012, 05:19:14 AM
Aaron, don't even try to make them all happy. Some of these guys would argue with you about what color the sky is!  The majority of us know how bad the herd has gotten.  If anyone thinks that hunting true spikes on the Colockum now is a healthy hunt, they obviously never saw how good the hunting was up there 10 years ago. And the reason the hunting was so good was because the herd was healthy and full of mature bulls that hadn't been poached or "tribaled".
Just ignore the idiots and keep doin what your doin! Some of us appreciate your dedication and passion!
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: lokidog on January 21, 2012, 06:03:30 AM
I was up in the Colockum Saturday. A trip up was long overdue. I went and glassed one of "my spots" and viewed healthy looking elk. Most of the cows had fat little calves with them and all looked calm. Not sure where all the big boys were, obviously they were not with the cows. We saw 4 bulls, all looked no bigger than spike size. To far away even to count points. They looked like they were fine, enjoying a mild winter day. We did find a fresh set of lion tracks not far from where the herd was. :bash: Light snow came in as evening approched, very relaxing day.

Unhealthy herd does not mean they are all standing around starving.  There can and will be healthy animals in an unhealthy herd.  Population may be a better term than herd since there are generally many herds in a population of animals.  For an extreme example of this, if you have an island that can easily suppport 500 elk and only 450 live there, you might assume that this would be a healthy herd/population.  Now, if you were told that of these 450 healthy elk, none are bulls, is this still a healthy population?  It is definitely a healthy herd as there are 450 fat happy cows there, but they eventually get old and die without replacing themselves.  The dwindling number of cows will still be healthy individuals but the population of elk is not.

Pretty much any biologist having any knowledge of elk will agree that increased road density has a negative impact on elk populations.  Whether it is from increased contact with non-hunters leading to increased energy expenditures or increased contact with hunters, legal and tribal and poachers (not being hunters, of course) leading to higher percentages of animals being directly killed, easier access will increase human-elk contact.  Decreased access will lead to decreased human-elk contact and, all other factors remaining the same, this will lead to healthier individuals and a healthier population.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 21, 2012, 09:24:21 AM
Idaho and Loki thank you. Idaho I don't let them bother me. It only stiffens my resolve to continue to do what I believe is right by that herd. I appreciate tje support guys I really do.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 21, 2012, 02:49:11 PM
Last year was my first year hunting the colockum and I could not believe what goes on up there!  I am a yakima native and have hunted white and chinook passes all my life and I have never seen elk herds in september like that.  Groups of 50-100 cows and 1 herd bull with maybe 1-3 satellites!  We saw 3 different groups of elk on that hunt and 2 of the three had no spikes of any kind in or around them.  The last group (the biggest) had 4 spikes and only one was a true spike (see dead elk picture on previous page :chuckle:)  It was constantly frustrating to start hiking only to hear a truck and then stumble into a road.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what is wrong up there.  Anyone who thinks that there should be a road in every drainage and ridgetop obviously is more concerned with not having to break a sweat than the well being of an elk herd.  I am constantly amazed at the atv guys that just out and out don't care about a closed road sign and just drive right on past in plain view of the world!  I have no attachment to the colockum like my brother does and I won't be hunting it unless with him,  but if I can see the writing on the wall and others who have hunted it for years still refuse to see it than in my eyes they are selfish and ignorant.  Just my  :twocents:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: idahoelkhunter300wby on January 22, 2012, 05:50:55 AM
BLRman, you said it all rite there! Its to bad the officials in Olympia ect, can't see as clearly as you can what is happening up there!
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Krawdaddy20 on January 22, 2012, 06:56:41 PM
You seem to forget why the game department went to the true spike bull restriction. Genetics. It is proven that bulls from the colockum herd will not be true spikes but 1x2's or larger. They are culling out the bulls with poor genetics. The biggest problem is the tribal hunters, they shoot only bulls. The Yakima's have no policing of themselves. They do what ever they want and there is no way to prevent it. The treaty of 1855 and the State vs Buchanon fixed that. But while everybody is having a debate, I will spend my time hunting and harvesting elk in the colockum; like I did this year and have in years past.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Krawdaddy20 on January 22, 2012, 07:11:10 PM
If there is anything I would like to see is a brow tine restriction. Just like Montana. No different than the 3 point or better where the point has to be an inch. 4" brow tine.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 22, 2012, 07:18:42 PM
The easiest way to decrease tribal harvest up there is road closures. But that impacts other people too.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: PlateauNDN on January 23, 2012, 10:41:34 AM
Colock, you're doing a fine job keep it up, don't let them get the best of you.  ROAD CLOSURES. :tup:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 23, 2012, 11:04:51 AM
You seem to forget why the game department went to the true spike bull restriction. Genetics. It is proven that bulls from the colockum herd will not be true spikes but 1x2's or larger. They are culling out the bulls with poor genetics. The biggest problem is the tribal hunters, they shoot only bulls. The Yakima's have no policing of themselves. They do what ever they want and there is no way to prevent it. The treaty of 1855 and the State vs Buchanon fixed that. But while everybody is having a debate, I will spend my time hunting and harvesting elk in the colockum; like I did this year and have in years past.

WDFW created this mess in  94 (or thereabout) when they went Spike only and  CREATED the Native (bad apple)and poacher Bull farms up there.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 23, 2012, 04:10:18 PM
Elkaholic I agree but what was the alternative? The bull to cow ratio was even worse. It was 2:100.  The alternative was permit only. The WDFW was between a rock and a hard place.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: coachcw on January 23, 2012, 08:46:52 PM
one in three spikes are true spikes . that why they went true spike to even further limit harvest . one fact we cant deney is that there is way to many hunters in the two units . go draw only and road clossures . limit the total harvest and manage the tribal kills aswell . without all asspects of management you cant manage the herd . if you build the bull to cow ratio back up it will only mean more bulls for the tribes to harvest !
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: huntnnw on January 23, 2012, 11:35:16 PM
Close the roads!!! will help dramaticaly..keep the lazy asses up there from shooting elk in the winter, cause by god they would want to leave the truck to get the bull they shot
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: winshooter88 on January 24, 2012, 12:17:03 AM
You guys talk about the good old days 10 years ago, we've hunted the Colockum for over 40 years. If you really want to see the good old days go back 25-30 years, then you could see what things used to be like. The Tekison & Stray Glutch road closures are because the WDFW does not want to maintain the roads where they wash out. Parts of both of these roads either run right next to the creek or in the creek bed in some places. Pete Lopushinsky has been the Colockum Game Range manager for at least 10 years, this is not a new position. Ken Kilgore was the previous game range manager and held that position for over 25 years. So maybe you should get at least those facts straight. I know this because I have worked on habitat projects and filling game feeders with both of these men. As for roads in the Colockum more than you can guess have already been closed, and the gates that Pete has are probably going to be used on roads that are already closed. Also at the meeting in Ellensburg on the 11th there were only a few comments against the winter road closures. most of the people either didn't comment or supported the current or even more widespread closures. The WDFW is working on a program to facilitate more road closures in the 328 area at this time. 
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: JJB11B on January 24, 2012, 01:19:42 AM
The good ole days? Yall are livin em! you guys have one of the best elk hurds in the Country!
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: winshooter88 on January 24, 2012, 05:57:46 AM
JJB, that's OK you just keep living that dream. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not, the Colockum herd is in trouble. And if these are the good old days like you say, then 25 years ago must have been a taste of heaven.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: alanger on January 24, 2012, 06:45:59 AM
there are alot of roads already closed but i have a couple more in mind that it wouldnt hurt to shut down. .02
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: groundhog on January 24, 2012, 07:40:07 AM
I have been huntin the Colockum for over forty years. Twenty five years ago the hunting was not that great. We started the spike only regulations 17 years ago because the bull to cow ratio was so bad. The deer hunting was good back then(there was a general seaon) but the elk hunting was a zoo. The Colockum has issues but these are "the good old days" in my opinion when you talk about washington elk.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: winshooter88 on January 24, 2012, 03:43:06 PM
Twenty five years ago the elk hunting was allot better than it is now, you could hunt any bull and it was not uncommon to see herds most days during the season. Now if you see 40 elk it's a good day. There are less people that hunt now than back then but true spike hunting is hardly the good old days.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 24, 2012, 03:58:09 PM
Twenty five years ago the elk hunting was allot better than it is now, you could hunt any bull and it was not uncommon to see herds most days during the season. Now if you see 40 elk it's a good day. There are less people that hunt now than back then but true spike hunting is hardly the good old days.


 45 years here,and I have to agree with this post. all DFW did as I said before is, well you know.
 2010 I saw over 300 elk in one afternoon (with a LOT of time to glass them)- FOUR bulls of any kind. raghorns


"Elkaholic I agree but what was the alternative? The bull to cow ratio was even worse. It was 2:100.  The alternative was permit only. The WDFW was between a rock and a hard place."


4 years ago CE I was against permit only, spoke in Ellensburg I would rather see it closed for a year or two, but now I surrender. seems Permit is our only answer
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 24, 2012, 07:33:16 PM
one in three spikes are true spikes . that why they went true spike to even further limit harvest . one fact we cant deney is that there is way to many hunters in the two units . go draw only and road clossures . limit the total harvest and manage the tribal kills aswell . without all asspects of management you cant manage the herd . if you build the bull to cow ratio back up it will only mean more bulls for the tribes to harvest !

Coach you hit the nail firmly on the head. Unless both tribal and non can be regulated then no matter what restrictions we impose on licensed hunters we are just treading water. We wont go anywhere. We have true spike only and 6 branch permits are given out every year. And still the branch bull population is falling. Why? Because the Colockum has become the trophy hunting grounds for the Yakamas. Unless they do the rigjt thing that herd is toast.

And the people who think that road closures don't help, well do some research on the affects of road density on elk populations.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: groundhog on January 25, 2012, 06:41:08 AM
Twenty five years ago the elk hunting was allot better than it is now, you could hunt any bull and it was not uncommon to see herds most days during the season. Now if you see 40 elk it's a good day. There are less people that hunt now than back then but true spike hunting is hardly the good old days.


I agree the hunting was better because we could hunt any elk. When I said these are the good old days I was reffering to the general health of our elk herds. We have a lot more big old mature bulls than we did back then. Twenty five years ago a 300 inch bull was a big bull. Now a 300 inch bull is just a bull.
If we did not have the Indians hunting trophy bulls the system that we have in place would have been much more successful.
Any new system that we adopt I think will result in the elimination of our big old bulls. I hate to see them go but I guess there is no sense in growing them to old age so the Indians can shoot them in the middle of winter.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 26, 2012, 04:50:02 AM
Groundhog you are correct. 25 years ago the Colockum bull to cow ratio was 2:100. Now its 5:100. Not great and there is a lot of room for improvement. The real success story is the Yakama herd. 25 years ago the bull to cow ratio was 5:100 and if a 5pt raghorn came down to the feed station it LITERALLY would make the news paper. Since it went to spike only the bull to cow ratio has tripled to 15:100 and if a 5pt raghorn comes to the feed station then no one notices.

Yes the spike only thing has worked well. It could be better that is for sure.  I wish the Yakamas would cooperate and submit harvest reports. The reason they don't is right now they can claim or pretend that tribal hunting doesn't have a negative impact on the elk and deer populations. But if they did harvest reporting then they couldn't live in denial any longer and would be pressured to change by the wdfw. Also they would get a TON of negative PR.  Even if their restrictions was one bull per person and unlimited cows that would be fine with me and would be an improvement and help out alot. Especially in the Colockum.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: stuckalot on January 27, 2012, 10:56:51 AM
I think the elephant in the room in this discussion is the very real possibility that there are already over a dozen wolves in the Teanaway Pack.  I think we can close all the roads we want, and argue over seasons, and cow tags, but with a growing wolf population I believe the days of a general elk season are numbered.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: PlateauNDN on January 27, 2012, 11:05:13 AM
There is more than likely more wolves then they are saying but at least with ROAD CLOSURES there would be a decrease in easy access to road hunting and harvesting of animals in winter ranges.  Solve this then move onto wolves, or both at the same time.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: buckskin on January 27, 2012, 11:39:18 AM
Some of you guys are absolutely right, the game dept. can show all the graphs and numbers they want, but it comes down to the extreme over harvesting of tribal members plain and simple. When six permits total are issued for all user groups from us 97 to the Columbia river you do the math. And yes the wolves will soon be a huge contributor to the decline of all kittitas county elk herds. I would love to go to a wdfw meeting and have them show a true factual graph of the clockum bulls and quality from 1996 to current and how many tags were issued for branch bulls then and now, the graph would speak for its self, not really sure what the wdfw are managing,surely not the elk.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on January 27, 2012, 03:41:13 PM
Well in 2003 there were 127 permits given out. Now there is 6. Starting in 2006 it has steadily dropped from 16 down to what we have now which is 6.  It's not permit hunters dropping the population of branch bulls down. Last year they shot and killed 3.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: buckskin on January 28, 2012, 08:55:14 AM
I agree with you  colockumelk, I think the best thing that could happen is to have the wdfw come out and publicly  admit the excessive over harvesting from tribal members is the number one reason we are in this current situation. I think we all realize the wdfw will not and could not be successful in litigation .I believe The wdfw would have the most impact by speaking the truth and stating the facts even though they are not proceeding with legal actions, unfortunately I don't think this will happen.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: jstone on February 17, 2012, 11:58:58 AM
COLOCKUMELK..... I dont know if you did it or not but i saw on the new proposal that they have cows for the clockum on the antlerless permits?? Of course it is only for rifle or muzzy hunters. No archery?? I throw a email to them lastnight asking them why not share the wealth, we will see what they say. But this is just a pat on the back to you if they got the idea from you and all your great research   :tup:


Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: HairTrigger on February 20, 2012, 12:43:24 AM
Well colockumelk, since your SO good with numbers, exactly how many yakamas hunt trophies in the colockum?
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: bearpaw on February 20, 2012, 12:53:12 AM
I think the elephant in the room in this discussion is the very real possibility that there are already over a dozen wolves in the Teanaway Pack.  I think we can close all the roads we want, and argue over seasons, and cow tags, but with a growing wolf population I believe the days of a general elk season are numbered.

We have a report in the wolf count topic of 13 wolves seen together near the pass.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: danderson on February 20, 2012, 07:13:14 AM
Does the state or DOT keep track of all the road kills along I-90 , I know theres at least one or two every day in the cle elum area
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd
Post by: colockumelk on February 21, 2012, 05:58:00 PM
Well colockumelk, since your SO good with numbers, exactly how many yakamas hunt trophies in the colockum?

Thanks for the compliment sure thing. Since Yakamas refuse to partake in wildlife management or research the only way the WDFW could guess at the impact Yakamas have on the Colockum elk herd was by using eyes in the woods and game wardens. The average number of BRANCH BULLS taken by Yakamas every year was 40. That was in 2006. According to a few Yakama members I've talked to since 2006 the number of Yakamas hunting the Colockum has dramatically increased. So its orphan ly higher than 40. I know for a FACT one of your members killed 4 in one year by himself. That was twice as many as permit hunters killed that year.   Hope that clarified things for you Hairtrigger.

Does the state or DOT keep track of all the road kills along I-90 , I know theres at least one or two every day in the cle elum area

The sub-herd west of 97 is doing fine. It's the elk in 328/329 that is hurting.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (updated)
Post by: colockumelk on February 22, 2012, 07:15:51 PM
Here's the update.

As many of you know in the new proposals they are now going to issue out cow permits in the Colockum.  The bull permits remained the same (1 rifle rut permit, 2 rifle permits, 1 ml permit, 2 bow permits) but now you can use your colockum bull tag and hunt in the Teannaway.  Rifle Hunters get 40 cow permits and ML get 30 cow permits. For archery the late season you can now hunt cows without a permit.

Now for the new part. In the early archery season bow hunters will get 50 permits.  The goal for cows harvested with an antlerless permit is 100.  So the above numbers of permits are solid and I agree with them 100%. 

Okay now to stir the pot because I'm bored. The WDFW could give out more cow permits in the Colockum but Master Hunters kill on average 184 cows a year in the Colockum. :tup:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (updated)
Post by: fishingnut71 on February 22, 2012, 07:24:25 PM
I thank you you for all that you have done. I wish I could have done more for the battle with the tribes and the herd and the wdfw. Im truely greatful!
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (updated)
Post by: bone collector 12 on February 22, 2012, 08:57:24 PM
Here's the update.

As many of you know in the new proposals they are now going to issue out cow permits in the Colockum.  The bull permits remained the same (1 rifle rut permit, 2 rifle permits, 1 ml permit, 2 bow permits) but now you can use your colockum bull tag and hunt in the Teannaway.  Rifle Hunters get 40 cow permits and ML get 30 cow permits. For archery the late season you can now hunt cows without a permit.

Now for the new part. In the early archery season bow hunters will get 50 permits.  The goal for cows harvested with an antlerless permit is 100.  So the above numbers of permits are solid and I agree with them 100%. 

Okay now to stir the pot because I'm bored. The WDFW could give out more cow permits in the Colockum but Master Hunters kill on average 184 cows a year in the Colockum. :tup:
[/quote
,is the clockum cow permit gonna include the quilomene also?
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: colockumelk on February 22, 2012, 09:02:42 PM
Yes the special permits for cows will be for 328 and 329 for all three user groups.  The late season archery general season hunt that is true spike/antlerless will be for 328 only.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: bone collector 12 on February 22, 2012, 09:09:56 PM
alright thanks,just making sure :)
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: HairTrigger on February 23, 2012, 12:46:26 AM
 :dunno:
How many cows an does are killed by members?? An 4 is a long ways from 40 neff
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: colockumelk on February 23, 2012, 07:22:20 AM
:dunno:
How many cows an does are killed by members?? An 4 is a long ways from 40 neff

Very few. Like I said members don't drive all the way to the Colockum to shoot a cow. If your just after meat it makes sense to just shoot a cow on the reservation or in the Yakima herd. Way cheaper on gas.

Your second sentance is confusing. Members overall shoot 40+ a year. 4 of those was from 1 member.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: HairTrigger on February 23, 2012, 08:52:48 AM
I highly doubt 40+ bulls get shot in colockum, I've never been there, don't seem like there would be any bulls if 40+ a year are shot up there.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: PlateauNDN on February 23, 2012, 09:23:57 AM
Between some that are known on here and maybe a couple of others I would estimate around 20.  I know 3 people in particular have harvested at least 6-8 bulls that I've been able to at least partially confirm.  But there is the unknown variable to account for.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 23, 2012, 10:27:26 AM
I've been putting in for ghost cow permits since the permit change a few years back only because I knew sooner or later something would open up for archery cow permits.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: jstone on February 23, 2012, 10:49:56 AM
Finally a step in the right direction. It will take a long time to fix the rest. But i have no more faith in the system. some people just dont want to work together. Politics is the problem. THANKS CLOCKUMELK   :tup:

Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: C-Money on February 23, 2012, 10:59:29 AM
I highly doubt 40+ bulls get shot in colockum, I've never been there, don't seem like there would be any bulls if 40+ a year are shot up there.

What you wrote after the second comma is what the entire issue with the Colockum is all about. 
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on February 23, 2012, 11:11:49 AM
Between some that are known on here and maybe a couple of others I would estimate around 20.  I know 3 people in particular have harvested at least 6-8 bulls that I've been able to at least partially confirm.  But there is the unknown variable to account for.
Do those 6-8 include our individual and his boys in East Wenatchee?
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: predatorpro on February 23, 2012, 11:16:13 AM
huh...im confused? am i the only one that thinks the elk on the colockum are thick as thieves? the last evening drive we went on up there we seen atleast 300 elk in just one spot and heard way more, i use to muzzleload on the colockum on a hunt that was down low...and there is no shortage of elk anywhere in the colockum i grew up camping way up coleman creek and i seen some of the biggest bulls in my life up on the colockum....by the time modern comes around i think a huge number of the elk have just been pushed to the preserve and with someone everyone ten feet up there they just get pushed so hard its stupid,  i wont be a part of hunting elk on the colockum im proud to say im not a part of the zoo of people up there
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: colockumelk on February 23, 2012, 11:31:28 AM
I highly doubt 40+ bulls get shot in colockum, I've never been there, don't seem like there would be any bulls if 40+ a year are shot up there.

SO if you've never been there how would you know?  Ten years ago when they did surveys they would see 300+ branch bulls. The last one they did they saw 70.  The past 5 years they give out about 6 branch bulls permits. About 3 bulls a year get shot out of those 6 permits. You do the math on why the bull population has rapidly declined.

Plateau your correct. 20 bulls a year is probably a good number for a for sure number harvested. But since there isn't any reporting we can't know for sure.

Predatorpro. I never said there was a shortage of elk. I said there was a shortage of branch bulls. Out of those 300 how many were mature bulls?
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: HairTrigger on February 23, 2012, 12:31:17 PM
I highly doubt 40+ bulls get shot in colockum, I've never been there, don't seem like there would be any bulls if 40+ a year are shot up there.

What you wrote after the second comma is what the entire issue with the Colockum is all about.
comments like this make me think maybe I outta ccheck it out
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: leed on February 23, 2012, 12:38:38 PM
huh...im confused? am i the only one that thinks the elk on the colockum are thick as thieves? the last evening drive we went on up there we seen atleast 300 elk in just one spot and heard way more, i use to muzzleload on the colockum on a hunt that was down low...and there is no shortage of elk anywhere in the colockum i grew up camping way up coleman creek and i seen some of the biggest bulls in my life up on the colockum....by the time modern comes around i think a huge number of the elk have just been pushed to the preserve and with someone everyone ten feet up there they just get pushed so hard its stupid,  i wont be a part of hunting elk on the colockum im proud to say im not a part of the zoo of people up there
Finally someone else agrees with me! :)
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: colockumelk on February 23, 2012, 02:36:59 PM
I highly doubt 40+ bulls get shot in colockum, I've never been there, don't seem like there would be any bulls if 40+ a year are shot up there.

What you wrote after the second comma is what the entire issue with the Colockum is all about.
comments like this make me think maybe I outta ccheck it out

So the reality of the situation offends you :dunno:  The reality is the branch bull numbers continue to fall in the Colockum despite the WDFW giving out less and less branch bull permits and despite the fact that the Colockum has the strictest general season rules in the entire west. There are fewer hunters in the Colockum than ever before. Harvest levels for both branch bulls and yearling bulls are at an all time low. Meanwhile because of popularity and word of mouth more and more tribal hunters go to the Colockum. Members of your own tribe have told me this.

This is the reality and the issues we face in the Colockum. To ignore the impact that tribal hunters now have on the Colockum is either naive or you don't care. The WDFW is doing about all they can to improve the herd but without the help of the Yakama Tribe they are just treading water. Change and improvement CAN NOT and WILL NOT happen without the cooperation of the Yakama Tribal Council. And since they refuse to help the WDFW tells me either they are unaware of the problem or do not care. If they are unaware then I would be more than willing to raise awareness of the problems. If they don't care (which I doubt) then shame on them for not helping to conserve the resources we share.

We share the resources so our two groups should share the responsibility of conservation and managment. If my posts are offensive or upsetting then well I don't know what to tell you. I tell it like it is but I'm fair and polite.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (updated)
Post by: colockumelk on February 23, 2012, 02:50:29 PM
Here's the update.

As many of you know in the new proposals they are now going to issue out cow permits in the Colockum.  The bull permits remained the same (1 rifle rut permit, 2 rifle permits, 1 ml permit, 2 bow permits) but now you can use your colockum bull tag and hunt in the Teannaway.  Rifle Hunters get 40 cow permits and ML get 30 cow permits. For archery the late season you can now hunt cows without a permit.

Now for the new part. In the early archery season bow hunters will get 50 permits.  The goal for cows harvested with an antlerless permit is 100.  So the above numbers of permits are solid and I agree with them 100%. 

Okay now to stir the pot because I'm bored. The WDFW could give out more cow permits in the Colockum but Master Hunters kill on average 184 cows a year in the Colockum. :tup:

Here is what I would rather talk about.

Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: kirkl on February 23, 2012, 02:59:00 PM

Okay now to stir the pot because I'm bored. The WDFW could give out more cow permits in the Colockum but Master Hunters kill on average 184 cows a year in the Colockum. :tup:

 :cryriver:

Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: HairTrigger on February 23, 2012, 03:39:45 PM
Its not up to Tribal council
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: huntnfmly on February 23, 2012, 04:09:10 PM
Then who in the hell is it up to over there?my God this attitude is assinine. The numbers don't lie the herd is in trouble and all I hear from tribal members on here is its not up to us
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: colockumelk on February 23, 2012, 04:24:29 PM

Okay now to stir the pot because I'm bored. The WDFW could give out more cow permits in the Colockum but Master Hunters kill on average 184 cows a year in the Colockum. :tup:

 :cryriver:

No tears from me. We are getting antlerless permits and the Master Hunters days of 2 cow tags a year is out the door. Only smiles for me.   :tup:
Its not up to Tribal council

Who is it up to then?

Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: C-Money on February 24, 2012, 08:44:18 AM
I highly doubt 40+ bulls get shot in colockum, I've never been there, don't seem like there would be any bulls if 40+ a year are shot up there.

What you wrote after the second comma is what the entire issue with the Colockum is all about.
comments like this make me think maybe I outta ccheck it out

We need more branch bulls in the Colockum. If all the cows are not "covered" those open cows will start comming into heat at wierd times, being pregnant when they should be in heat, in return having calves at wierd times that wont survive. More than once I have seen calves that look like new bornes in November up there. Its a big mess, but an easy fix if more bulls survive.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: jstone on February 24, 2012, 09:05:43 AM
OK i had a great response typed out but for some reason it timed out and wouldn't let me post?????? Come on people take the fricking blinders off. Yes there is a problem with the Clockum herd. Big bulls are being taken out but not legit. Come on COMMON SENSE... Frustrating when something can be fixed and wont be cause of Politics. I hope the next Governor has some BIG BALLS.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: rosscrazyelk on February 24, 2012, 10:17:01 AM
Hey clockum,
 I am one along with many people on this site who love elk hunting and am very partial to the area I hunt, just like you... LOL
But being a member and reader of his site for a long time I have never seen anyone so compasionate and  voice his opinion on how things sould be done as much as you do for the clockum.. I just want to say as much as I have teased you in the past.  I respect what you do and obviously people are listening. keep up the fight and next time you are in town get ahold of me , I want to buy you some drinks and sit and talk about the great beautiful animal we call the ELK.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: 6x6in6 on February 24, 2012, 10:26:50 AM
Hey clockum,
 I am one along with many people on this site who love elk hunting and am very partial to the area I hunt, just like you... LOL
But being a member and reader of his site for a long time I have never seen anyone so compasionate and  voice his opinion on how things sould be done as much as you do for the clockum.. I just want to say as much as I have teased you in the past.  I respect what you do and obviously people are listening. keep up the fight and next time you are in town get ahold of me , I want to buy you some drinks and sit and talk about the great beautiful animal we call the ELK.
:yeah:
I could not have said that better myself!!!

And no, in my opinion of close to 30 years of off and on hunting the 328/329 their is not really an overall numbers issue with the Colockum herd.  As Colock has said many times, it's the bull/cow ratio that is the problem.  The ease of access doesn't help either.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: Woodchuck on February 24, 2012, 10:27:12 AM
 :yeah:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: C-Money on February 24, 2012, 11:05:21 AM
I highly doubt 40+ bulls get shot in colockum, I've never been there, don't seem like there would be any bulls if 40+ a year are shot up there.

What you wrote after the second comma is what the entire issue with the Colockum is all about.
comments like this make me think maybe I outta ccheck it out

We need more branch bulls in the Colockum. If all the cows are not "covered" those open cows will start comming into heat at wierd times, being pregnant when they should be in heat, in return having calves at wierd times that wont survive. More than once I have seen calves that look like new bornes in November up there. Its a big mess, but an easy fix if more bulls survive.

The same thing happens on ranches when a bull has trouble with his love tackle. If a bull cant perform, it leaves a lot of work to do for the other bull (bulls). Then you end up calving all summer and fall. We ran into this at our farm, one of our bulls had a testical issue and could not get the job done. Lucky for us, one of the neighbors bulls go in with our herd and eased the pressure. ( neighbor was cool with us using the bull, he had an extra in his herd anyway) We still ended up calving into august and was a pain. I think this goes on in the Colockum, hope I made sence here.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: bone collector 12 on February 24, 2012, 11:27:26 AM
It has been mentioned on here before,but would gateing roads and making the mile buffer around the reserve help with the bull survival rate?
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on February 24, 2012, 11:36:37 AM
That would be a good start! Id gate it farther 5 to 10 miles!
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: colockumelk on February 24, 2012, 01:00:18 PM
Bone Collector it would do wonders for that elk need. 

Rosscrazyelk,6x6 and woodchuck thanks for the kind words. As far as the invite for a beer goes, I know a BMM ambush when I see one. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: C-Money on February 24, 2012, 01:04:05 PM
Colock, I'd drive your Apache Helicopter to the bar incase things get ugly with the BMM. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: colockumelk on February 24, 2012, 01:21:34 PM
Colock, I'd drive your Apache Helicopter to the bar incase things get ugly with the BMM. :chuckle:

:chuckle:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on February 24, 2012, 04:47:58 PM
That would be a good start! Id gate it farther 5 to 10 miles!

 Really? I don't think the folks on the Wenatchee side of Colockum Pass,  Or on the Jumpoff Rd would appreciate being surrounded by elk camps on private property.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: bone collector 12 on February 24, 2012, 05:48:22 PM
That would be a good start! Id gate it farther 5 to 10 miles!

 Really? I don't think the folks on the Wenatchee side of Colockum Pass,  Or on the Jumpoff Rd would appreciate being surrounded by elk camps on private property.
It would push people out of that area,but if they wanted to stay they would either have to hike there camps back or get permission too be on private ground that's just my  :twocents:
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on February 24, 2012, 06:49:59 PM
That would be a good start! Id gate it farther 5 to 10 miles!

 Really? I don't think the folks on the Wenatchee side of Colockum Pass,  Or on the Jumpoff Rd would appreciate being surrounded by elk camps on private property.
It would push people out of that area,but if they wanted to stay they would either have to hike there camps back or get permission too be on private ground that's just my  :twocents:


Just curious how long you two (bone collecter/huntingcouple) have hunted the Clockum???


OOOPS! I guess that's 3!
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: bone collector 12 on February 24, 2012, 07:38:28 PM
I have been in there for about 4 years,but my dad and other huntin partners have been huntin it for about 17 years
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: winshooter88 on February 24, 2012, 07:43:15 PM
Guys, your ideas to close the area around the reserve are not going to happen. Reason number 1 is that Colockum pas rd is a Kittitas county road so the WDFW can't make the decision to close it. Reason number 2 is that closing the roads would result in basically closing the elk season in almost half of the Colockum area resulting in decreased license and tag sales. The WDFW wants more sales not less. Reason 3, is that closing an area of 5 to 10 miles around the reserve would close off allmost all of the Naneum and the Tarpiscan and the powerline and the top of Cooke and Coleman canyons. Most of the people who hunt these areas are not going to support these actions. Talk and ideas are great, but coming up with viable ans supportable plans make more sense. Gating roads that are already closed so people can't just ignore the no vehicles signs will help some. Closing  a few more non essential roads will help some more. With the herd at total number objectives even though the bull numbers are still way too low, the WDFW is not going to basically close the elk season in the Colockum area.  :twocents: PS if it makes any difference my brother and I have hunted elk in the Colockum for over 45 years.
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on February 25, 2012, 08:26:35 AM
I have been in there for about 4 years,but my dad and other huntin partners have been huntin it for about 17 years

 About as long as winshooter88 here

 I may not have done the research numbers like Colockumelk has, but we are 46 years and four generations intimate with the Colockum Elk herd and it's central to northern range.

 Throughout the majority of the years spent hunting there things were fine. Before green dot we drove almost anywhere. And yes the Game Reserve was  bordered on 3 sides by open roads. Before 1972 the Colockum Pass  road was the  eastern boundary of the reserve, not Brewton road. There were a lot more hunters up there then than now
 In the early 80s They came up with resource allocation and, moved the season from November to the last week of October. Didn't didn't like it but What could WE do?
  Before this time elk season started either on a Sunday,or Monday.They also came up with an early and late tag and moved the opener for the early tag to Saturday, late tag on Monday. WHY some would ask, would anyone then buy a late tag?!?!?!?! Here is your answer. Special permits were only available to those who had purchased LATE tags. This was obviously before they discovered their cash cow. There also was no east or west tag....there was western, Blue mountain, Yakima,or Colockum tags, so you were more restricted east than you are now as to where you could go.
  Was it 1994 that they expanded the Blue mountain "Spike only" to the Yakama, and Colockum herds.
 Didn't like that either, but (once again)What could we do? In the early years there was a very noticeable increase in branched animals. and we ALL started feeding the cash cow! there were about 60 any bull permits issued in the Naneum, Mission, and Quilomene GMU's at that time. Now we have what, 6 all weapons?  Colockum/Mission has become an OIL tag.
 Things were okay for about 10 years and IT happened.What was it? would we call it racial discrimination, or just Gregoire, Casino campaign money? DNR Logging ? whatever it is, it has ruined a great area
  In 2008 I attended the March final 3 year season setting Comm. meeting in Ellensburg and commented  I would rather close the area for a couple years than go permit only. Since then it has got no better.  we have been sacrificing  since 1994 for what......
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Somehow Phill Lancaster from East Wenatchee has got to be stopped. If anyone would like to stop by and talk to him about it, his home address is 45 south June, East wenatchee.  This guy is single handidly destroying the herd.  He isnt helping the deer herds around here either."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Now this is only ONE individual! I also hear there is another "problem child" family on the other side of the hump.

 This year at the meeting in Moses lake I will be promoting  Permit only since I hear in an emergency OTC closure to permit only will put the NA's and us on the same level.  Am I wrong on that CE

Rifle: 228 cows x 85% success rate equals 270 cow permits
ML:  52 cows x  40% success rate equals  permits 130 cow permits
Archery: 70 cows x 25% success rate equals 280 cow permits
Total Permits 680


Rifle: 130 bulls x 65% success rate equals 200 Any Bull permits
ML:  30 bulls x 40% success rate equals 75  Any bull permits
Arhcery: 40 bulls x 20% success rate equals 200 Any bull permits.
Total Permits 475
 

They would probably be wise to increase the group size for this particular SP,since there are some large camps up there/OR in our case there are 4 separate families in camp and many of us just love the experience of just being there ,so we would probably put in  in 3-4 smaller groups so that the chances would be better we would have a reason to go at all.
 If not we would certainly invade someone else's area.

 Now as  a 1/2, or 1, or 5 mile buffer around the Art Coffin Game RESERVE ( not refuge or preserve) and all other road closure issues .......Comparing  the roads in the 328/329 and the 251 is definately apples to oranges. In the 251 you have only 2 access roads Colockum Pass and Schaller/Jumpoff with Naneum road connecting them bordering the reserve. There is much more cover on the open side of this road than Colockum pass rd. until you get to the DNR mess beyond 4 corners( which is about 3/8 mile from the reserve.) Hard for bulls to escape if they get out in any of these huge clearcuts.
 
In the four miles between  the monument at Colockum/Naneum junction to the Wood line  at four corners there were (M/R) less than 10 camps. Now lets compare that to the number (Colockum pass) of camps from the the reserve south  toward that steel line. How many, and LARGE camps, and much more wide open flat country. I would estimate  at least five times more camps and hunters,and that's only about a 3 mile distance.
 I suppose you could close the Brewton,and then the Reserve would only have a road on the north border. But as we have read in other threads, that there are some N. A's that don't need a road, or the lands commissioner has passed out keys

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

  My idea is permit only (ech!) Colockum. Consider the early/late tag thing again if not permit only.  and figure out whatever it is that can stop the slaughter of our big bulls  by unlicensed untagged hunters who have months to do their damage,and have been for too long.

 Or close it all together for a couple years

 Sorry for all the added history........

Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: bone collector 12 on February 25, 2012, 09:44:53 AM
i think the whole shutting it down and or going to permit only can be bypassed if they would gate most of the red dot roads,because that will increase bull escapement and improve the health of the herd,and the buffer around the reserve is a must because again its creating that escapement for yearling bulls who get pushed off the reserve by the bigger more dominate bulls
Title: Re: Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)
Post by: winshooter88 on March 04, 2012, 03:31:40 AM
Elkaholic dog, Going to permit only will only help if the Yakama tribal council will do something to regulate the tribal hunting in that area. The WDFW doesn't want to go permit only and lose the tag revenue. One thing that might help is closing the whole Colockum, Nanuem and Quillomene areas to any access from December 31st till May 1st. This would keep the tribal harvest down and reduce the harrassment of the wintering animals. One thing to consider also is that wolves are already in the Teanaway, it is a short run for a wolf to get to the rest of the Colockum-Quillomene area. When that happens the problems with this herd are only going to get worse.
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