collapse
Double U Hunting Supply Order Jason Phelps Calls Here

Author Topic: Eastern Washington Elk  (Read 9521 times)

Offline LarMar14

  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 89
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2013, 09:39:50 PM »
If you don't like hunting spikes in eastern washington, then why not stay on the westside and hunt branched bulls? Thats why you get a choice right?  :twocents:

Offline pendoreilleadventures

  • Moose Whisper
  • Past Sponsor
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 833
  • Location: Newport, washington
    • https://www.facebook.com/brian.benham.16
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2013, 11:27:20 PM »
How come people always say that the big bulls need to breed the rag horns and spikes have the same genes as the big boys...doesn't matter age or antler size bulls genetics are there day one.

Sent from my C6750 using Tapatalk

“Vegetarians are cool. All I eat are vegetarians--except for the occasional mountain lion steak.”
― Ted Nugent

Offline norsepeak

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 1900
  • Location: Chinook Pass, Wa
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2013, 08:34:00 AM »
How come people always say that the big bulls need to breed the rag horns and spikes have the same genes as the big boys...doesn't matter age or antler size bulls genetics are there day one.

Sent from my C6750 using Tapatalk

You are correct, the genetic material is there from day one.  The notion of the "big bulls" doing the breeding was from a time when natural selection was the law of the land.  It isn't anymore.  It used to be the biggest, baddest, smartest bulls would be the ones to survive the predators and be the most desirable for breeding to pass on the genes and traits that allowed them to survive.  It doesn't apply anymore because the human predator is not limited by their cunning or fitness like a four legged predator would be.  We can nail a big bull from across a canyon that might have survived many years just dealing with four legged predators.  So now even though "raghorns" are doing a majority of the breeding, it doesn't effect the genetic makeup of the heard too badly.  Yeah it's not ideal, but it's what we have.



Offline STIKNSTRINGBOW

  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 3024
  • Location: Chehalis
    • https://www.facebook.com/stiknstring.bow
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2013, 09:17:33 AM »
So what about the guys that bust tail to kill nice bulls every year ? They just kinda get the shaft until they draw a tag because the road hunters can't seem to fill a tag ? If wa goes draw only on the west side il be going to oregon..don't limit my hunting oppertunities just cuz other people can't manage to find elk  :twocents:

Sorry if that seemed like a jab at road hunters but they have got to be the majority of folks who don't fill tags

 :yeah:  :chuckle:
It is funny to me how I hear about crowding, but never see other hunters back in behind closed gates.
I met a guy from Wisconsin who wanted to harvest a Roosevelt with his longbow (he made himself).
After looking at harvest reports, picked the unit I hunt.
Came out in 2011 and hiked in one of the gates near our camp, and got into some Elk but was unable to harvest one.
Came back this year with a mountain bike, rode into same area and shot a decent 5pt on second day of season.
Commented on how he was surprised that he did not see any other hunters.
Then I overheard another hunter comment on how "lucky" he was, but this hunter rarely got more than a mile from camp, or spend more than an hour or two in the woods.
I am always amazed at how many "Elk Hunters" I meet who spend more time riding around in their trucks than actually hunting, and complaining that there are no elk.
And the areas that they do get out of their trucks, is because one jumped the road in front of them.
The mountains are calling and I must go."
- John Muir
"I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order."
- John Burroughs
NASP Certified Basic Archery Instructor
NASP Certified Basic Archery Instructor Trainer

Offline STIKNSTRINGBOW

  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 3024
  • Location: Chehalis
    • https://www.facebook.com/stiknstring.bow
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2013, 09:22:55 AM »
How come people always say that the big bulls need to breed the rag horns and spikes have the same genes as the big boys...doesn't matter age or antler size bulls genetics are there day one.

Sent from my C6750 using Tapatalk

You are correct, the genetic material is there from day one.  The notion of the "big bulls" doing the breeding was from a time when natural selection was the law of the land.  It isn't anymore.  It used to be the biggest, baddest, smartest bulls would be the ones to survive the predators and be the most desirable for breeding to pass on the genes and traits that allowed them to survive.  It doesn't apply anymore because the human predator is not limited by their cunning or fitness like a four legged predator would be.  We can nail a big bull from across a canyon that might have survived many years just dealing with four legged predators.  So now even though "raghorns" are doing a majority of the breeding, it doesn't effect the genetic makeup of the heard too badly.  Yeah it's not ideal, but it's what we have.
I also have witnessed spikes and raghorns doing the breeding while the herd bull is chasing off other raghorns and spikes than actually breeding himself.
High bull/cow ratios improve genetic diversity, large bulls only demonstrate what genes are available.
The mountains are calling and I must go."
- John Muir
"I go to nature to be soothed and healed, and to have my senses put in order."
- John Burroughs
NASP Certified Basic Archery Instructor
NASP Certified Basic Archery Instructor Trainer

Offline soccerftw123

  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 12
  • Location: washington
  • Groups: nwtf
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2013, 11:20:51 PM »
So what about the guys that bust tail to kill nice bulls every year ? They just kinda get the shaft until they draw a tag because the road hunters can't seem to fill a tag ? If wa goes draw only on the west side il be going to oregon..don't limit my hunting oppertunities just cuz other people can't manage to find elk  :twocents:

Sorry if that seemed like a jab at road hunters but they have got to be the majority of folks who don't fill tags

 :yeah:  :chuckle:
It is funny to me how I hear about crowding, but never see other hunters back in behind closed gates.
I met a guy from Wisconsin who wanted to harvest a Roosevelt with his longbow (he made himself).
After looking at harvest reports, picked the unit I hunt.
Came out in 2011 and hiked in one of the gates near our camp, and got into some Elk but was unable to harvest one.
Came back this year with a mountain bike, rode into same area and shot a decent 5pt on second day of season.
Commented on how he was surprised that he did not see any other hunters.
Then I overheard another hunter comment on how "lucky" he was, but this hunter rarely got more than a mile from camp, or spend more than an hour or two in the woods.
I am always amazed at how many "Elk Hunters" I meet who spend more time riding around in their trucks than actually hunting, and complaining that there are no elk.
And the areas that they do get out of their trucks, is because one jumped the road in front of them.
Thats not my problem i got into many elk at bow range this year only problem is cant find a spike, had bulls and cows in bow range

Offline stuckalot

  • Off-Topics
  • Hunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2008
  • Posts: 182
  • Location: East Wenatchee
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2013, 07:51:51 AM »
If you want to finish off sport hunting in this state in a generation or two, go permit only. It is difficult enough to recruit new hunters into our ranks, try doing it when they may only get to hunt once every 4-5 years! While it may not be representative of the hunt wa community there are many many people whose hunt success is not based on how many or how big an animal they harvest. It is the time spent each year in the field with family and friends. Despite a low success rate growing up that one week in the fall was the most cherished of the entire year for me.  Had I only had one or two opportunities over that time I would have moved on to something else. While fewer hunters may seem like a great idea it will be the death of our sport.

As far as spike rules go there are actually many sound reasons for it. Primarily the very high natural mortality rate for calves and spikes. If sustainability is the goal for a herd harvesting spikes and calves has the least impact on the heard because many of them will die any way.
I am free only because thousands of brave Americans have given their lives for me...

Offline sakoshooter

  • WFW Board of Directors
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 2474
  • Location: Puyallup
  • Groups: Life Memberr NRA, Life Member Sumner Sportsmans Association
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2013, 09:34:26 PM »
If we go permit only you will be sitting on the sideline for along time wishing you could hunt.. Wanting to hunt bulls go to CO, MT, OR, WY, ETC. Be happy that you can hunt each year.

 :yeah:

Thank you! Somebody with some sense!

Agreed
Hodags are real
Bone em out, Pack em out
You are who you are when no one is looking

Offline kerrdog

  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 384
  • Location: Vancouver Washington
  • Dont believe everything you think.
    • Kerrexteriors  Roofing, Gutters, and Windows.
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2013, 08:14:29 AM »
Lets do away with scopes and high power rifles. (except for the old and disabled)  :chuckle:  Actually I'd never want to impose my opinion on others.  But that would work, right? Bow and Muzzleloader only. :IBCOOL: 

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 23109
  • Location: Rochester
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2013, 08:49:59 AM »
Several other states (including Oregon) have permit only hunting for deer/elk, and it hasn't stopped kids from hunting in those states.

I have to ask- why is it that a system like that works in other states but some people insist it can't work here?

I've asked this question before and never have heard any reasonable answers.

Offline bobdog86

  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Posts: 31
  • Location: Eastern Washington
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #60 on: November 28, 2013, 09:05:00 AM »
Lets do away with scopes and high power rifles. (except for the old and disabled)  :chuckle:  Actually I'd never want to impose my opinion on others.  But that would work, right? Bow and Muzzleloader only. :IBCOOL:
Sure, Long bows only (nothing metallic) and only traditional, real flintlock smoke poles.

Offline Button Nubbs

  • "Fish CSI"
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3804
  • Location: kenmore
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2013, 08:30:35 PM »
Several other states (including Oregon) have permit only hunting for deer/elk, and it hasn't stopped kids from hunting in those states.

I have to ask- why is it that a system like that works in other states but some people insist it can't work here?

I've asked this question before and never have heard any reasonable answers.
I think it can work but I go hard for mine year in year out and am successful year in year out. I don't consider myself any better of a hunter than the rest, but I do consider myself more hard working than the most. Why should I have to suffer?
Team nubby!

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 23109
  • Location: Rochester
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2013, 08:50:57 PM »
Why should you have to suffer? Kind of a silly question to ask. Actually it's likely you could still hunt every year if you apply for areas that are difficult to access (wilderness.)

Also, if you don't draw one year don't you think a friend or family member might draw and you could go along to help? You'd still get to hunt, you just wouldn't be the one to pull the trigger.

I don't know but there are options. Just think of all the people in Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona who "suffer" more often than not.

I just seems to me that proper management of this state's elk is more important than every single hunter being allowed to kill an elk every year.

Offline rtspring

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 3359
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2013, 08:57:02 PM »
1. It will never go permit only. Reason is revenue.

2. If you don't like the hunting in Washington, you can go hunt one of your "permit only" states.

3. If it ever does go permit only, those that bote it in.  It wont improve hunting, only for those that dont use our regs will benefit..

4. It is what it is..  Too many people not enough animals..
I kill elk and eat elk, when I'm not, I'm thinking about killing elk and eating elk.

It doesn't matter what you think...

The Whiners suck!!

Offline deaner

  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1017
  • Location: huckleberry
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2013, 08:59:39 PM »
Why should you have to suffer? Kind of a silly question to ask. Actually it's likely you could still hunt every year if you apply for areas that are difficult to access (wilderness.)

Also, if you don't draw one year don't you think a friend or family member might draw and you could go along to help? You'd still get to hunt, you just wouldn't be the one to pull the trigger.

I don't know but there are options. Just think of all the people in Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona who "suffer" more often than not.

I just seems to me that proper management of this state's elk is more important than every single hunter being allowed to kill an elk every year.

proper management of this states elk?  i think that more aggressive predator control options would do a lot more for our elk numbers than more restrictive hunt opportunities.

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 23109
  • Location: Rochester
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2013, 09:01:22 PM »
Quote
2. If you don't like the hunting in Washington, you can go hunt one of your "permit only" states.

I will always hunt this state as long as I live here. That doesn't mean I can't disagree with the states method of so called "wildlife management."

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 23109
  • Location: Rochester
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2013, 09:06:58 PM »
Quote
proper management of this states elk?  i think that more aggressive predator control options would do a lot more for our elk numbers than more restrictive hunt opportunities.

Great idea but I don't see anything with predator management changing anytime soon. Do you? The fact is the only real change that can be made to increase deer and elk numbers, AND to improve the quality of our hunts, is to limit the number of hunters by GMU. Just as many other states do. States that have more hunters than surplus game, like this state. So why are we so different that we can have unlimited numbers of tags, with no way to control where all those people hunt?

Offline 6x6in6

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2007
  • Posts: 3384
  • Location: Bellingham, WA
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #67 on: November 28, 2013, 09:08:02 PM »
Several other states (including Oregon) have permit only hunting for deer/elk, and it hasn't stopped kids from hunting in those states.

I have to ask- why is it that a system like that works in other states but some people insist it can't work here?

I've asked this question before and never have heard any reasonable answers.
I don't think there is a truly reasonable answer bobcat as to why.
The majority of elk hunters want the opportunity to hunt every year.  It may be just that simple, right there.
That same majority complains about over crowding but refuses to want to give up their annual tag opportunities.
Personally, I think that a system like if your hunter ID # ends with an odd number, you get the odd years.  Even gets even.  Should wind up being relatively close to cutting the hunters afield in half I would guess.  Youths, seniors, and possibly disabled and active in-state stationed military get an exemption on the odd/even.
The driving force in something like this would be revenue generation.  If the WDFW allowed everyone to still make permit applications, and if successful they were exempt from the odd/even, the WDFW may not suffer too much on the revenue take side.
The WDFW needs to step away from the thought of managing for opportunity (revenue) and manage for a quality hunting experience before anything will ever change.

Offline rtspring

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 3359
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #68 on: November 28, 2013, 09:13:31 PM »
Where is the big problem? 400 inch bulls? 200 inch bucks?

The elk are doing great in my unit, deer numbers are on the rebound and getting close to the early 90'S

I have no problem hunting spikes. By going permit only you still won't kill an animal every time you have a tag...
I kill elk and eat elk, when I'm not, I'm thinking about killing elk and eating elk.

It doesn't matter what you think...

The Whiners suck!!

Offline Button Nubbs

  • "Fish CSI"
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3804
  • Location: kenmore
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #69 on: November 28, 2013, 09:19:24 PM »
Why should you have to suffer? Kind of a silly question to ask. Actually it's likely you could still hunt every year if you apply for areas that are difficult to access (wilderness.)

Also, if you don't draw one year don't you think a friend or family member might draw and you could go along to help? You'd still get to hunt, you just wouldn't be the one to pull the trigger.

I don't know but there are options. Just think of all the people in Oregon, Nevada, and Arizona who "suffer" more often than not.

I just seems to me that proper management of this state's elk is more important than every single hunter being allowed to kill an elk every year.
If I can't kill an elk every year I'm done here. Selfish? maybe, but I'm tired of people whining how crappy hunting is in this state. Its like people expect to drive down the roads and see herds of elk everywhere. I got news for yall hunting does not suck here! I don't agree on much with rtspring, but this I do. I don't want to be forced into wilderness areas because a lot of people think hunting should be easy. If I go with a friend, my freezer won't be full to the next season. Bottom line play the hand your dealt, get off your butts and go get them, they are here, there are areas that there aren't many people. Don't like it? Go somewhere else, don't ruin it for those of us that bust our asses to be successful every year.
Team nubby!

Offline Button Nubbs

  • "Fish CSI"
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3804
  • Location: kenmore
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #70 on: November 28, 2013, 09:21:38 PM »


I have no problem hunting spikes. By going permit only you still won't kill an animal every time you have a tag...
Winner winner chicken dinner! Bingo!
Team nubby!

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 23109
  • Location: Rochester
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #71 on: November 28, 2013, 09:32:03 PM »
The reason for going to permit only would be number 1- to limit hunting pressure and decrease harvest. This would lead to higher numbers of elk, at least in areas that have the carrying capacity for more animals. It's pretty selfish in my opinion to think that you deserve to kill an elk every single year, when the average hunter in this state kills an elk once every twenty years. It's not about making it more "easy." It would be about managing each GMU by limiting the harvest, which they DO NOT do now. The distribution of hunters is 100% random, the WDFW does not control that in any way. As more and more of the private timber company land goes to access by permit only, the problem is going to get worse. If you hunt public land expect to have a lot more company in the future!

Offline deaner

  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 1017
  • Location: huckleberry
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #72 on: November 28, 2013, 09:40:11 PM »
"The reason for going to permit only would be number 1- to limit hunting pressure and decrease harvest. This would lead to higher numbers of elk, at least in areas that have the carrying capacity for more animals. "

my core area has a very small elk [population well below its carrying capacity.  almost nobody hunts elk here.  even most of the people who live here have never seen an elk around and many of them dont believe we have them.  that being said, there is virtually no hunter pressure / harvest on the local elk, yet the population remains small and the recruitment is very poor.  its a predator problem.  decreasing the number of hunters here would do nothing, the only thing that would help the elk numbers in this area is better predator control options.  do i think its going to happen? not at all, but that IS the answer.

Offline Button Nubbs

  • "Fish CSI"
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 3804
  • Location: kenmore
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #73 on: November 28, 2013, 09:41:02 PM »
The reason for going to permit only would be number 1- to limit hunting pressure and decrease harvest. This would lead to higher numbers of elk, at least in areas that have the carrying capacity for more animals. It's pretty selfish in my opinion to think that you deserve to kill an elk every single year, when the average hunter in this state kills an elk once every twenty years. It's not about making it more "easy." It would be about managing each GMU by limiting the harvest, which they DO NOT do now. The distribution of hunters is 100% random, the WDFW does not control that in any way. As more and more of the private timber company land goes to access by permit only, the problem is going to get worse. If you hunt public land expect to have a lot more company in the future!
Why does the average hunter kill one only every twenty years? Do they study maps? Are they making 15-20 scouting trips per season? Are they running multiple cameras in different areas? Are they constantly looking to improve their situation? Does the thought of why elk do what they do cross their minds daily? I doubt they are. Oppertunity is at your finger tips, go get it!
I will agree this timber company thing is going to create a major problem. Something does need to be done about that.
Team nubby!

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 23109
  • Location: Rochester
Re: Eastern Washington Elk
« Reply #74 on: November 28, 2013, 09:43:15 PM »
The main reason the success rate is so low is there are too many hunters! Period. Not enough elk.

Again, why do other states feel the need to manage by permit only hunting? Other states that actually have more elk and less people than we do? But we don't need to do that here? Why are we so different that we can continue on with basically the same management system that we've had since the 1950's?

 



ElkNut Outdoor Productions

Quick Links


* Random Photo New

AH

Views: 1799
Posted by: WDFW-SUX
in: Small Game Photo Album

* Recent Topics

Stop selling your son's first rifle! by ouchfoss
[Today at 12:33:47 AM]


Missou breaks or custer by chiefeng
[Today at 12:33:03 AM]


East Cape Baja by chiefeng
[Today at 12:18:44 AM]


Miami Sailfish by chiefeng
[Today at 12:13:33 AM]


Good deal on a Mega stripped lower. by 6.8mmARHunter
[Today at 12:05:26 AM]


270 question by bobcat
[Today at 12:04:18 AM]


Montana draw by chiefeng
[Yesterday at 11:57:51 PM]


sunrise and sun set pics bring them on by chiefeng
[Yesterday at 11:48:36 PM]


WDFW Offers Reward for info ................wolf killing by bearpaw
[Yesterday at 11:43:20 PM]


Snow melt in 49 degrees? by huntnnw
[Yesterday at 11:39:03 PM]


Re: Word Association Game by GrainfedMuley
[Yesterday at 11:37:05 PM]


WTS or WWT: Four Wheel Pop-up camper project by BallardBound
[Yesterday at 11:36:28 PM]


Video from Opening Day by bearpaw
[Yesterday at 11:25:08 PM]


Knight Ultralight western by Damnimissed
[Yesterday at 11:03:12 PM]


"Free" Hunter's Lotto (sponsored by RR Calls) by Chase 1
[Yesterday at 10:55:06 PM]


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal