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Author Topic: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”  (Read 93622 times)

Offline Curly

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #600 on: May 19, 2017, 10:50:17 AM »
I don't think it's right for a stupid gopher to hold up or stop construction when there is plenty of the little critters.  A large population exists on JBLM property and I hear there's a bunch on the Olympia airport property.

http://mynorthwest.com/554485/mazama-pocket-gopher-thurston-county/

The environmentalists are using the gopher as a tool to stop development.


Quote
Thurston County has a big problem caused by one small critter: the Mazama Pocket Gopher.

Unlike in other areas of the country where the rodent is considered a nuisance, Thurston County’s frustrations have nothing to do with cratered lawns or earthen eruptions on putting greens. Instead, all land development in Thurston County has ground to a halt since the Mazama Pocket Gopher is listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act.

The Federal Department of Fish and Wildlife, which oversees ESA status, has proposed a Habitat Conservation Plan for the gopher that will cost Thurston County taxpayers $150 million. Until that conservation plan is agreed upon or rejected by Thurston County Commissioners, every new construction project requires a gopher inspection. All projects are wait-listed for approval, sometimes for years, pending those gopher inspections.

It doesn’t matter if the project is a new home, a road, or even a simple shed, as one of Thurston County Commissioner Gary Edwards’ constituents learned.

Edwards says it ultimately took four inspections to approve and, “they made this citizen jump through so many hoops, he was held up for over a year just to build a shed on his own property.”

Quote
Thurston County has a big problem caused by one small critter: the Mazama Pocket Gopher.

Unlike in other areas of the country where the rodent is considered a nuisance, Thurston County’s frustrations have nothing to do with cratered lawns or earthen eruptions on putting greens. Instead, all land development in Thurston County has ground to a halt since the Mazama Pocket Gopher is listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act.

The Federal Department of Fish and Wildlife, which oversees ESA status, has proposed a Habitat Conservation Plan for the gopher that will cost Thurston County taxpayers $150 million. Until that conservation plan is agreed upon or rejected by Thurston County Commissioners, every new construction project requires a gopher inspection. All projects are wait-listed for approval, sometimes for years, pending those gopher inspections.

It doesn’t matter if the project is a new home, a road, or even a simple shed, as one of Thurston County Commissioner Gary Edwards’ constituents learned.

Edwards says it ultimately took four inspections to approve and, “they made this citizen jump through so many hoops, he was held up for over a year just to build a shed on his own property.”
Mazama Pocket Gopher vs. private property

Part of the reason why the inspection process takes so long is the Mazama Pocket Gopher’s hibernation cycle. Since the varmints are dormant from October through June, none of the federally required inspections can take place during that time.

There are so many folks waiting on inspections that anyone who hasn’t applied for one yet will likely have to wait until June of 2018 to have their property assessed.

As it stands today, should a Thurston County resident’s house burn down, even if they had insurance money in-hand, they would not be able to build.

According to Commissioner Edwards, the gopher regulations have become, “so restrictive it’s killed our economic engine. We’ve had many businesses leave the county. Those that were intending on coming to the County went elsewhere. Our economic engine has basically been stifled.”

Getting on the inspection list may be the least of property owners’ concerns: should the proposed Habitat Conservation Plan be approved, the fees for developing any land in the county will skyrocket.

The Habitat Conservation Plan will function like a carbon offset tax; property owners and developers are free to develop their land so long as they pay a huge fee into a fund that would be used to purchase land for gopher habitat elsewhere.

Under the plan, any landowner or developer planning to build a single family home with a gopher on the property would be forced to pay $42,000 in habitat offset fees.
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Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #601 on: May 19, 2017, 10:58:35 AM »
Secret Gopher Map Reveals Washington Agency’s Power

http://agenda21news.com/2014/10/SECRET-GOPHER-MAP-REVEALS-WASHINGTON-AGENCYS-POWER/


‘International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature’ behind pocket gopher hoax

http://agenda21news.com/2014/10/part-five-international-commission-zoological-nomenclature-behind-pocket-gopher-hoax/



Government claims about pocket gopher protection remain flawed

http://agenda21news.com/2014/11/GOVERNMENT-CLAIMS-POCKET-GOPHER-PROTECTION-REMAIN-FLAWED/

Offline Curly

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #602 on: May 19, 2017, 11:05:06 AM »
Old news about the Cross Base Hwy (stopped by groups named below):

 Oct 21, 2010
SEATTLE, WA – This week, US District Court Judge Benjamin H. Settle signed an agreement worked out by parties in a lawsuit challenging Pierce County’s proposed Cross-Base Highway (SR-704). Tahoma Audubon Society, Conservation Northwest, Woodbrook Hunt Club, and the American Lake Gardens Equestrian Alliance filed the lawsuit challenging the inadequate environmental review of the proposed highway in early August 2010.
http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pressroom/press-releases/cross-base-highway-lawsuit-put-on-hold

“If any federal, state, or local funding materializes for this project, we’ll head back to court to protect this rare remnant prairie and prairie wildlife,” said Jen Watkins of Conservation Northwest.

The lawsuit was filed to protect one of the region's largest remaining tracts of oak-woodland prairie remaining in Washington State. The Puget Sound prairies once covered more than 150,000 acres, but today only about 3% remains. The area is considered by the County’s Biodiversity Network Assessment to be one of the "most biologically and ecologically rich areas remaining in the lower elevations of Pierce County,” containing old-growth Oregon white oak, Douglas fir, and ponderosa pine interspersed among prairie and wetlands. The prairie provides essential habitat for 19 plants and animals facing extinction, including streaked horned lark, Taylor’s checkerspot butterfly, western gray squirrel, Mazama pocket gopher, and water howellia.

"The road proponents failed to take into account the disastrous and irreversible environmental impacts in its rush to build the Cross-Base Highway," said Bryan Flint, executive director of Tahoma Audubon Society, "This four lane highway rips through pristine and endangered habitat." Rather than consider alternative routes, the Federal Highway Administration, Washington State Department of Transportation, and Pierce County proposed a brand new six-mile-long, four-lane Cross-Base Highway across rare prairie habitat on Joint Base Lewis-McChord at a cost likely to approach half a billion dollars.

The prairie is also key to the operations of the historic Woodbrook Hunt Club. "Our members have been riding in this area for nearly 100 years; we are the oldest hunt club west of the Mississippi,” said Jennifer Hansen, member of the Woodbrook Hunt Club. "This road is unnecessary, too expensive, and would harm the economic and historical value of the hunt club and surrounding equestrian businesses.”

The organizations filing the suit are represented by David Bricklin of Bricklin & Newman, LLP, and Susan Jane Brown of the Western Environmental Law Center.__________________________________________________________________________________

Sounds like this horse riding club has been trespassing for over 100 years and wish to keep riding the property and they joined the lawsuit to stop construction.

The article site's lack of funding for the highway as to why it wasn't constructed, but I heard that it was successfully stopped because of a threatened butterfly, the mazama pocket gopher, and the western gray squirrel. 

I've also heard that construction may finally start this summer.  So, it's probably going to happen eventually; it just is going to cost a lot more because of the law suit with lawyer fees and such.
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Offline BDildine

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #603 on: May 19, 2017, 11:50:40 AM »
always wondered why they just "stopped" when they got to spanaway loop. Yeah, i feel the same about the horse jockeys. While i don't necessarily want to see old growth oak (if that part is true) cut down, there are tons of other spots (like out off 8th) that theres grass lands for people to go ride..
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Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #604 on: May 20, 2017, 11:22:42 AM »
http://www.co.thurston.wa.us/Permitting/gopher-reviews/index.html

So how many people have had to pay that 42k? 


Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #605 on: June 22, 2017, 09:22:19 PM »
Endangered species budget cuts could impact jobs

Trump’s budget appears to eliminate funding for Landscape Conservation Cooperatives, which create links between agencies, landowners and organizations for large-scale projects like sage grouse recovery and grizzly bear delisting. Read More @

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/jun/21/endangered-species-budget-cuts-could-impact-jobs/


Zinke moving dozens of senior Interior Department officials in shake-up

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/zinke-moving-dozens-of-senior-interior-officials-in-shake-up/2017/06/16/11801d3a-5295-11e7-b064-828ba60fbb98_story.html

Offline wolfbait

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Offline bearpaw

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #607 on: July 17, 2017, 06:34:37 PM »
The ESA is a bloated out of control bureaucracy that is nothing but a special interest tool of the greenies. I wished Trump would dump it completely and start over with something new that people can live with. Congress most definitely needs to have oversight, experience shows us the corruptness that has occurred without oversight.  :twocents:
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #608 on: July 17, 2017, 06:36:09 PM »
Wolfbait, thanks for posting this video, everyone should watch this!

Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline bigtex

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #609 on: July 17, 2017, 06:44:09 PM »
I wished Trump would dump it completely and start over with something new that people can live with.
Trump can't do it, Congress has to do it.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #610 on: July 17, 2017, 06:47:05 PM »
I wished Trump would dump it completely and start over with something new that people can live with.
Trump can't do it, Congress has to do it.

Ok, thanks for pointing that out, hopefully Trump will press them to make even bigger changes. The ESA is a scourge on rural areas!
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Offline reality22

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #611 on: July 19, 2017, 08:25:35 PM »
Environmentalist have wasted huge amounts of money on the wolf.....the thing is the wolf really isn't as disgusting as these animals that use it to further their "donate now" button and suck EAJA dollars out of the Federal Government. There is a list of JUST four of the countless lawsuits and EAJA dollars rich welfare environmental lawyers pocketed .....

*Defenders of Wildlife v. Hall USFWS,  1:08-cv-56 (D. Mont.) - $263,099.66 Wolf Challenge against the USFWS's 2008 decision to delist the northern Rockies.

*Defenders of Wildlife v. U.S. Dep of Int, 1:03-cv-1348 (D. Ore.) - $272,710.54 Down listing" of the gray wolf from endangered to threatened status.

*National Wildlife Federation v. Norton, 1:03-CV-340 (D. Vt.) - $255,500 Wolf argument over Distinct population segments

*Humane Society of the U S v. Kempthorne USFWS, 1:07-cv-0677 (D.D.C.) - $280,000 Western Great lakes delisting

The million dollars listed above is only a small percentage of what the cottage industry has made in the process weakening the Endangered Species Act...and does not include the cost of defending the suit OR court costs. YOU see, these social leaches know that they can sue for an animal like the wolf knowing that it will never be able to be put back into "the majority of their former range” without doing irreparable harm to wolves.   Clearly they have done this 30 Northern WI co boards have passed resolution against the wolf and any changes to the current WI wolf management plan.  The 3000 domestic animals (documented and not the total) killed by wolves are a testament to how well they live with people.   Also, before hunting states like MN had to kill trouble making wolves BY THE HUNDREDS per year all on the government’s dime.   YUP, MN was killing OVER 200 per year for over half a decade AND almost hit 300 the year before the first hunt. 

Support congresswoman Cheney (R) and Franken (D) and their efforts at reforming this highly abused law. 

Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #612 on: August 02, 2017, 06:25:48 PM »
Lawmakers, Including Steve Pearce, Seek Overhaul of Endangered Species Act to Ease Harm to Farmers, Ranchers

https://thewesterner.blogspot.com/2017/08/lawmakers-including-steve-pearce-seek.html

Offline wolfbait

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Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #614 on: October 20, 2017, 03:40:37 PM »
House Committee Passes 5 Bills To Amend The Endangered Species Act

http://www.protectamericansnow.org/House-Committee-Passes-5-Bills-Amend-Endangered-Species/
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 05:07:36 PM by wolfbait »

Offline Special T

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #615 on: October 20, 2017, 04:35:09 PM »
House Committee Passes 5 Bills To Amend The Endangered Species Act

http://Http://Www.protectamericansnow.org/House-Committee-Passes-5-Bills-Amend-Endangered-Species/
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Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #617 on: October 20, 2017, 05:15:32 PM »

Really, that's what you read into this conversation WAcoyote, we're all about killing panda bears and peregrine falcons? This thread isn't about opposing the saving or protection of endangered species. This discussion is about how extreme greenies use it to forward extreme greenie agendas. Wolves need management and the game departments of WY, ID, and MT have decided on management plans. Greenies are using the ESA to oppose them because they don't want any killed under any circumstances. Do you agree with them or do you agree with the game departments who are experiencing wolf problems?

On the flip side of the extremist environmentalists you have people like Wolf Bait who think the number of wolves in the lower 48 should be zero. They make up scare stories to try to win people over to their side of the argument.  Remember the hydatid scare? Supposedly these big bad tapeworms were going to be the scourge of any area that had a couple wolves in spite of the fact that any canine including dogs and 10s of thousands of coyotes were already part of the life cycle of tapeworms. Kids were going to be eaten waiting for their school buses. "Predator pits" were going to evaporate the game populations in any state with wolves . 

No, it's not just the extreme envios that are more than willing to make up stories and spread them to try to garner support for their side.

I'd be the first one to say if you want to have balance that all animals need to be managed. I also believe that people should be able to protect their animals and families and other property. By taking that option away, the authorities have fed the frustration and fired up the opposition to predators.  Wolves aren't dumb animals, if they get shot at they will learn fear of men and learn where they are not wanted.  And it would cost a hell of a lot less money than mobilizing a helicopter team to officially go after them.  I'll even go so far as to say that the Feds go too far when it comes to not recognizing when a population no longer needs protection and needs to be managed. I have seen it with marine mammal protection first hand.  I know they have no idea how many sea otters, seals and sea lions exist in the gulf of Alaska because they don't bother counting them any more. And when humans can't use facilities they build like the east mooring basin in Astoria because sea lions or seals have taken over and they are protected, then there is a real problem with management. And not addressing it only creates frustration, anger and resentment.  Things like allowing voters to vote out perfectly good management tools such as trapping and hunting with dogs also creates huge problems and all that adds up to mistrust by certain user groups for anything new.

But you'll never convince me that a couple hundred wolves will be the end of wildlife and hunting in this state. There are way more important issues facing hunters than a few wolves. The biggest being access.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline wolfbait

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Re: The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”
« Reply #618 on: October 23, 2017, 10:06:04 AM »

 

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