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Author Topic: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?  (Read 65517 times)

Offline Bofire

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #150 on: July 24, 2014, 06:44:13 PM »
 :) :)
Roy Weatherby bought the radius shoulder design from the "Powell / Milton freebore" system designer. he was a great marketer but invented nothing but fancy stocks rich folks bought.
 Much like Glenn Browning, Johns nephew, invented nothing, but helped sell the designs.
 John M Browning mostly worked for Winchester. Browning Firearms Company was not in existance until 3 years after JM Browning died.
Both, Glenn and Sam, remind me of the Sam Colt lore, he invented nothing also. JM Browning was a genius of design. For Sam Colt, look up Smith & Wesson, and the development of the lever action, and winchester/Henry.  Sam was a genius of marketing.
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Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #151 on: July 24, 2014, 09:02:37 PM »
It's still a very good write up Rad.


I can't find any fault in it, obviously I must feel this way as I'm about the only one to tell the OP in this thread to go smaller rather than larger  :chuckle:
:yeah:

If it is mostly original, and it appears to be, I'd say post it in its own thread and sticky it.

Offline RadSav

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #152 on: July 24, 2014, 11:03:02 PM »
I can't find any fault in it, obviously I must feel this way as I'm about the only one to tell the OP in this thread to go smaller rather than larger  :chuckle:

Just for clarity's sake I was not trying to advise the OP one way or another in regard to going small or large. Sounds like he wants a barrel burner and I am in full support of him getting what he wants even if it ends up being more of a learning experience than the answer he is looking for.  My belief has always been that with proper bullet selection for each job at hand more energy isn't always the answer.  But, if you can hit what you are aiming at with great consistency and using the correct bullet for that energy and distance...Go for it! 

Monogamy when it comes to the relationship between a man and a gun?  Just seems senseless and boring to me :chuckle:
He asked, Do you ever give a short simple answer?  I replied, "Nope."

Offline kentrek

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #153 on: July 24, 2014, 11:51:38 PM »
 great write up  :tup:

Some of what you said could very well be the best info ive seen on the site regarding cartridge selection.....hopefully the op makes good use of it 

I appreciate the thoughts

 :tup:

Offline Dutchie

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #154 on: July 25, 2014, 03:21:01 AM »
+1 for 300wsm. Efficient powder burn, magnum performance, no brake needed.  300 rum damaged my hearing in my left ear, it was a hunting situation so I didn't think about protection.  Another buddy has a 300 rum and loads 168 Bergers at 2950 fps. That can be achieved with any magnum 30 cal.  I bough a 300wsm model 70 featherweight and have been grinning ever since.

Offline bullcanyon

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #155 on: July 25, 2014, 05:06:33 AM »
If your buddy is only loading those 168g bergers to 2950 he isn't loading that up to it's potential.  He could get more than that out of a 210g berger.

Offline grundy53

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #156 on: July 25, 2014, 06:00:37 AM »
My wtb:300 rum topic seemed to spark a lot of conversations and opinions. So let's continue it here boys! To answer questions I am:6'1 195 lbs , almost 18, varsity football player. Proficient marksmen. I already have 3 270's and am looking for more power & powder :tup:. Tell me what you think about me getting a magnum rifle, and what it should be  :tup:.

Since you've got three 270's and no magnum sell a 270 and buy your magnum rifle. If you get the right make it will be guaranteed 1moa or less accuracy out of the box. If you get a Wthby Vanguard II then it will only cost you a few more dollars than you will get for the 270.  :tup:

The actual differences between most magnums is pretty minimal, if you are buying loaded ammunition then stick to what's the most affordable to shoot. The more you shoot that gun the better you will shoot it. As I mentioned before, if you buy loaded ammunition I'd get a 7mm Rem or 300 Win Mag since ammo is very affordable for either. I would get that caliber in the Vanguard II for an excellent affordable choice with guaranteed .99 or better moa accuracy. You might want to learn to reload then you can afford to shoot any of the new exotic magnums because cartridge cost will then be a minimal factor.   :twocents:

FYI: http://www.weatherby.com/vanguardseries2/
7mm Rem. Mag. $489...24"...7 1/4 lbs...blued
.300 Win. Mag. $489...24"...7 1/4 lbs...blued
7mm Rem. Mag...$689...24"...7 1/4 lbs...stainless
.300 Win. Mag...$689...24"...7 1/4 lbs...stainless

I've always been told that 1000 ft/lbs is preferable for clean kills on elk/ bear size game, 700 for deer and 250 for coyote. I've always used that as a guide for range limits,also my ability to keep it under moa.

Im sure rad will have a much better answer. But this is what I've used as guide lines for me :tup:

You also want the velocity to open the bullet.  I shoot TSX and they need 1,800 fps.

I think you need at least that much speed for the Barnes, for the larger calibers (338ish as an example) I think you need more speed to open a Barnes. As much as I like the TTSX for an all around hunting bullet I believe there are better bullets for extreme long range hunting. For long range a lot of guys seem to like the bergers. Honestly, there doesn't seem to be a perfect bullet for all ranges, I think a guy is best to have at least two types of bullets that shoot well in your gun.

The foot lb minimums mentioned are probably close as a good general rule of thumb. However, a gut shot bear/elk/moose with 1500+ lb energy may never be found whereas a spinal shot with half that energy will take down the same animal immediately which illustrates the importance of shot placement.


Manufacturer is a bit optimistic with their numbers.  While the tip may split at 1,800 it doesn't often exceed bore diameter at such speeds.  Bigger diameter bullets like those of the 338 and 375 seem to be better at low velocities.  But none should be considered highly effective at velocities less than 2,200. 

My Dall sheep I killed with my bow was shot earlier that day with a Barnes TTSX at 425 yards from a 7 RemMag.  diaphram, lungs and bullet was just under the hide behind the far shoulder.  Didn't seem all that much worse for wear.  Though I rushed the stalk, got busted and would have never gotten him had he not been hurting.

I've seen similar issues in California when guys have used .270 cal Barnes for exotic goat and sheep.  Those certainly aren't the solid beef sticks a large muledeer or elk is, but it does challenge the manufacturers claim of minimum useful velocity. The more solidly built hogs I've seen taken at closer ranges where velocities have been (I'm guessing) around 2,600 to 2,400 fps were a different story.  The Barnes simply hammered the bageeses out of them! 

Bearpaw Jr. has a video on the Bearpaw Outfitters website where she shoots a moose with the 257 Wby and Barnes bullets at reasonably long range.  He pounds him with a few shots, but you can tell he is pretty much toast after the first shot!  I'd guess impact velocity was near 2,400 :dunno:  Cool video.  If you haven't seen it yet it's worth checking out.

We've killed at least three moose with the 257 wtby, I've seen probably 10 bear killed all with one shot, and I killed my cow elk last winter one shot at over 500 yds with my 257. There is a reason it was Roy Weatherby's (the Wthby inventor) favorite cartridge. It's a blast shooting that caliber. (pun intended) But all preferences aside, for a guy shooting factory ammo, I still recommend a guy to buy the 7mm Rem or 300 WM so you can get cheaper ammo and shoot it often. Either of those guns will kill anything you need to kill in North America and will kill most of them at 500 yds or beyond.

It's not labled as a magnum but I'd say 26 Nosler would be worth a try.

I haven't played with the 26 Nosler, but the 6.5 Badger that I've been playing with is a ton of fun. The Badger is like a 26 Nosler +P. :tup:

For all of you guys offering "reasonable" advice, you're ruining this game for all of us! The goal here is to help boost the economy by convincing him to buy something new. :chuckle:

Andrew

 :chuckle:  Extreme calibers are like a bad gambling addiction.
I thought strongly about getting a 26 Nosler but I reviewed the ballistics and cost then compared them to the 257 and to the 340 Wtby with a 160 gr TTSX at 3400-3500 fps and just could not justify spending what the 26 would cost. It's still tempting whenever I read about the 26 but I am trying to control my addiction. A 264 Win Mag is another excellent and much cheaper option than the 26 Nosler. But I have to admit, the 26 still has that fatal attraction!  :chuckle:

I should add something about cheap all around bullets:
I know they are not perfect but I have seen literally tons of game killed with Remington Coreloks at all types of ranges including a 30/06 on elk at 750ish yards.


I can safely say I've killed more animals with a .300 win mag then any other cartridge I own. It is a very versatile round. I also own a .257 weatherby magnum and love it. Also if I have my way my next rifle will be a .264 win mag.

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Offline Curly

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #157 on: July 25, 2014, 09:25:55 AM »
If your buddy is only loading those 168g bergers to 2950 he isn't loading that up to it's potential.  He could get more than that out of a 210g berger.
:yeah:

Heck, some 30-06 rifles might be able to almost reach 2950 with a 168 gr.
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Offline WoodlandShooter

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #158 on: July 25, 2014, 09:46:53 AM »
If your buddy is only loading those 168g bergers to 2950 he isn't loading that up to it's potential.  He could get more than that out of a 210g berger.
:yeah:

Heck, some 30-06 rifles might be able to almost reach 2950 with a 168 gr.

One of my shooting buddies is using a similar performing load in his 30-06 for competition use.

Offline Dutchie

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #159 on: July 25, 2014, 11:53:51 AM »
He loads them down, he should be able to load them up to around 3300fps but his gun and him like the lighter loads for accuracy purposes. It's all about what that specific gun likes to eat. I should be right around the 165@3000fps with 64.5 grains of imr 4350.  I was just suggesting that he can get a magnum that's far less abusive than the rum, either the shoulder is getting hammered of you have a deafening muzzle break. I love my 300wsm, 300wm or 7mm rem mag would be good choices. If your gonna go heavy mag, you will spend 2 times as much on ammo. 

Get a 338 rum use that extra powder potential

Offline bearpaw

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #160 on: July 25, 2014, 01:03:24 PM »
Great comments Rad, I would add that in my opinion some of the biggest mistakes in long range hunting is most hunters do not have the experience or training to qualify them as legitimate long range shooters, also there is often a failure to be set up properly for making long range shots and it's hard to accomplish proper long range setup in many hunting situations. I try to keep most shots on deer and bear at 250 yards or less and prefer 100 yard shots or less if possible. Elk are twice the size so you can almost double those yardages for elk and most hunters are proficient. Antelope and coyotes offer a bigger challenge due to their size and shooting distances involved, I've definitely seen a higher percentage of misses on those animals.

Back to the original post. The OP has three 270's, I can certainly understand why he would like to replace a 270 with a magnum rifle and try to expand his realm of hunting flexibility. I can hold dead on out to 300 yards with my 257 or 300's and if I hold steady the animal is going down. As an extreme example I can't do that with a 30/30. However, he could take one of those 270's and with the right loads hold dead on at 300 yards and be effective. However, the 300 magnum will deliver more energy at longer yardages than the 257 or the 270 so why not get a bigger magnum of one flavor or the other to replace one of the 270's?

Good luck to him however he decides to proceed!  :tup:
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Offline Shane54

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #161 on: July 25, 2014, 01:10:45 PM »
All great opinions guys! I'm loving all of these comments! They are really helpful! :tup:
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Offline h20hunter

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #162 on: July 25, 2014, 01:12:33 PM »
Shane54.......I really enjoy following these threads. Being a bit recoil shy (huge sissy, shhh, don't tell) I have used a .270 for everything up to this point other than my bow. Once you get up and burning powder sure will be nice to see you with a critter on the ground. Keep at it.

Offline Shane54

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #163 on: July 25, 2014, 01:32:43 PM »
Thanks h20!
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Offline jay.sharkbait

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Re: What magnum do you suggest for a teen?
« Reply #164 on: July 25, 2014, 03:37:58 PM »
Great comments Rad, I would add that in my opinion some of the biggest mistakes in long range hunting is most hunters do not have the experience or training to qualify them as legitimate long range shooters, also there is often a failure to be set up properly for making long range shots and it's hard to accomplish proper long range setup in many hunting situations. I try to keep most shots on deer and bear at 250 yards or less and prefer 100 yard shots or less if possible. Elk are twice the size so you can almost double those yardages for elk and most hunters are proficient. Antelope and coyotes offer a bigger challenge due to their size and shooting distances involved, I've definitely seen a higher percentage of misses on those animals.


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