collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW  (Read 97594 times)

Offline oldleclercrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 1435
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2014, 09:07:45 AM »
We as hunters enjoy the same things. The outdoors, the animals, the meat in the freezer, ect. We enjoy these RIGHTS. To keep these rights, we as a small group need to stick together. Maybe some describe those unwilling to stand up for the hunting community's rights "anti-hunters" or maybe they're "not team players". I see it as "anti-team" personally. Call it what you want. This is what it comes down to. This is an issue attacking the hunting communities rights, just in the baiting department this time. Next year the issue may be against the rifle hunters. We're asking for your help now, and in return we're gonna stand by you next time to help protect your issue.... LIKE TEAM MEMBERS DO.
Aim small, miss small.

Offline DBHAWTHORNE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 4461
  • Location: Cheney
  • Groups: Washington For Wildlife
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2014, 09:14:09 AM »
You will not sway your opposition by harsh and confrontational language.  Only educated and well thought out responses are going to help gain understanding of the issue at hand.
This is debate 101.  If you're using harsh rhetoric all you're doing is solidifying those who already think as you do.  You're giving out red meat and alienating anyone with a slightly different perspective.  These people can be brought to your side with some education, some can't.

for my  :twocents:


It sounds like there is one outfitter responsible for bringing this baiting issue to a head by literally dumping dump truck loads of apples and other bait in the woods, making large numbers of animals congregate in one area.   This is detrimental to a herd because it groups up the animals making predators also group up = easy pickings.    Mule deer need to be dispersed to survive predators and keep a strong genetic pool.  Unfortunately WDFW is thinking of using a sledge hammer instead of a scalpel,  banning the use of bait statewide instead of addressing this very regional and localized problem.   The average bait pile in the woods usually consists of a sack of corn or two, a salt lick sometimes flavored sometimes not and perhaps a small 1/4 bushel of apples.  This is harmless as the bait is gone in a matter of days/week leaving the salt lick.  These bait piles are as dispersed as the deer herds and temporary.  The outfitter is making giant bait piles and worse long lasting bait stations year after year, he's creating a false habitat and grouping large numbers of animals.  This needs to be addressed.

Who is this outfitter I keep hearing about and what unit/area are we talking about?
The views expressed here are solely those of the author in his private capacity and do not in any way represent the views of  the Department of Defense or any other entity of the US Government. The Department of Defense does not approve, endorse or authorize this posting.

Offline DBHAWTHORNE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 4461
  • Location: Cheney
  • Groups: Washington For Wildlife
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2014, 09:16:58 AM »
We as hunters enjoy the same things. The outdoors, the animals, the meat in the freezer, ect. We enjoy these RIGHTS. To keep these rights, we as a small group need to stick together. Maybe some describe those unwilling to stand up for the hunting community's rights "anti-hunters" or maybe they're "not team players". I see it as "anti-team" personally. Call it what you want. This is what it comes down to. This is an issue attacking the hunting communities rights, just in the baiting department this time. Next year the issue may be against the rifle hunters. We're asking for your help now, and in return we're gonna stand by you next time to help protect your issue.... LIKE TEAM MEMBERS DO.

I don't think they are anti-hunters... I just say they are supporting an anti-hunter position.... because they are...it's a fact.
The views expressed here are solely those of the author in his private capacity and do not in any way represent the views of  the Department of Defense or any other entity of the US Government. The Department of Defense does not approve, endorse or authorize this posting.

Offline KFhunter

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 34514
  • Location: NE Corner
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2014, 09:18:57 AM »
You will not sway your opposition by harsh and confrontational language.  Only educated and well thought out responses are going to help gain understanding of the issue at hand.
This is debate 101.  If you're using harsh rhetoric all you're doing is solidifying those who already think as you do.  You're giving out red meat and alienating anyone with a slightly different perspective.  These people can be brought to your side with some education, some can't.

for my  :twocents:


It sounds like there is one outfitter responsible for bringing this baiting issue to a head by literally dumping dump truck loads of apples and other bait in the woods, making large numbers of animals congregate in one area.   This is detrimental to a herd because it groups up the animals making predators also group up = easy pickings.    Mule deer need to be dispersed to survive predators and keep a strong genetic pool.  Unfortunately WDFW is thinking of using a sledge hammer instead of a scalpel,  banning the use of bait statewide instead of addressing this very regional and localized problem.   The average bait pile in the woods usually consists of a sack of corn or two, a salt lick sometimes flavored sometimes not and perhaps a small 1/4 bushel of apples.  This is harmless as the bait is gone in a matter of days/week leaving the salt lick.  These bait piles are as dispersed as the deer herds and temporary.  The outfitter is making giant bait piles and worse long lasting bait stations year after year, he's creating a false habitat and grouping large numbers of animals.  This needs to be addressed.

Who is this outfitter I keep hearing about and what unit/area are we talking about?

I don't have any personal knowledge, but it's insinuated all over in this thread:
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,163612.0.html


Offline PolarBear

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 10468
  • Location: Tatooine
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2014, 09:21:18 AM »
You will not sway your opposition by harsh and confrontational language.  Only educated and well thought out responses are going to help gain understanding of the issue at hand.
This is debate 101.  If you're using harsh rhetoric all you're doing is solidifying those who already think as you do.  You're giving out red meat and alienating anyone with a slightly different perspective.
for my  :twocents:
His first paragraph, due to his lack of tact and insulting delivery, automatically made me discount anything he had to say even though I, for the most part, agree with him.  Referring to someone who does not agree 100% with you as and enemy will only hurt your cause.  All it does is piss off those who could be an ally and leave them with a feeling of apathy.  Call me an "anti-hunter" simply because I don't 100% agree with your practice and the day that there is a vote on it I will be out hunting instead of at the polls.   :twocents:   By the way, before we started having kids and life got crazy I spent 18 years as a competitive shooter and well over 260 days per year in the woods or on the water hunting, scouting, fishing, camping and shooting.  To refer to me or anyone who lives for the outdoors as an "anti-hunter" simply because they do not agree with a particular practice is purely asinine IMO.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 09:35:34 AM by PolarBear »

Offline DBHAWTHORNE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 4461
  • Location: Cheney
  • Groups: Washington For Wildlife
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2014, 09:22:23 AM »
I wonder if those who support the ban on baiting realize scents fall into WDFW's definition of baiting? If you can't use feed and you can't use scents then two of the best methods for harvesting whitetail with a bow in the big timber and mountains is taken away.

From WDFW:
“Bait” means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears (deer/elk) to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them.
The views expressed here are solely those of the author in his private capacity and do not in any way represent the views of  the Department of Defense or any other entity of the US Government. The Department of Defense does not approve, endorse or authorize this posting.

Offline KFhunter

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 34514
  • Location: NE Corner
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2014, 09:26:25 AM »
We as hunters enjoy the same things. The outdoors, the animals, the meat in the freezer, ect. We enjoy these RIGHTS. To keep these rights, we as a small group need to stick together. Maybe some describe those unwilling to stand up for the hunting community's rights "anti-hunters" or maybe they're "not team players". I see it as "anti-team" personally. Call it what you want. This is what it comes down to. This is an issue attacking the hunting communities rights, just in the baiting department this time. Next year the issue may be against the rifle hunters. We're asking for your help now, and in return we're gonna stand by you next time to help protect your issue.... LIKE TEAM MEMBERS DO.

I don't think they are anti-hunters... I just say they are supporting an anti-hunter position.... because they are...it's a fact.

They aren't rights, hunting is a privilege in WA and that needs to be changed.  Hunting nationwide needs to be a RIGHT.

We also need to stop chipping away at all the various forms of hunting, trapping and other various form of outdoor recreation.  It's getting pathetic.  They can't enforce the laws (WDFW) we have yet strive to make more.  We have Russians gilnetting the mouths of streams and they very rarely get caught.  We have areas of poacher communities where you will not find a deer within 10 miles of those communities.  We have black market elk buyers, bear gall buyers...the list goes on and on and on.....

Yet WDFW continues to further restrict the legal ethical hunter while doing very little to the most egregious poachers.  It's backwards logic; WDFW should be facilitating legal ethical hunting while going after those egregious poachers.


Offline buckfvr

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 4508
  • Location: UNGULATE FREE ZONE UNIT 121
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2014, 09:28:17 AM »
Problem is they wont stop with this.  This is a small step on the path of continued chipping away of our hunting rights.  The non hunting and anti hunting constituents  of the governor/wdfw , are flexing their muscle more and more each time season setting process begins anew. 

I also sent the message, and sent my own message months ago when it first started.  I do not believe it will do any good, as this, along with many of wdfw's decisions of recent times are fore gone conclusions before they even start a comment period. 

We are the few, they are the many.  The new wdfw seems only to be a liason of the non/anti hunting community, with a goal of getting us to take a bitter pill.  That and a revenue gathering ( at our expense ) monster, out of control.   :twocents:

Offline MtnMuley

  • Site Sponsor
  • Political & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 8635
  • Location: NCW
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #53 on: November 02, 2014, 09:30:36 AM »
We as hunters enjoy the same things. The outdoors, the animals, the meat in the freezer, ect. We enjoy these RIGHTS. To keep these rights, we as a small group need to stick together. Maybe some describe those unwilling to stand up for the hunting community's rights "anti-hunters" or maybe they're "not team players". I see it as "anti-team" personally. Call it what you want. This is what it comes down to. This is an issue attacking the hunting communities rights, just in the baiting department this time. Next year the issue may be against the rifle hunters. We're asking for your help now, and in return we're gonna stand by you next time to help protect your issue.... LIKE TEAM MEMBERS DO.

I don't think they are anti-hunters... I just say they are supporting an anti-hunter position.... because they are...it's a fact.

They aren't rights, hunting is a privilege in WA and that needs to be changed.  Hunting nationwide needs to be a RIGHT.

We also need to stop chipping away at all the various forms of hunting, trapping and other various form of outdoor recreation.  It's getting pathetic.  They can't enforce the laws (WDFW) we have yet strive to make more.  We have Russians gilnetting the mouths of streams and they very rarely get caught.  We have areas of poacher communities where you will not find a deer within 10 miles of those communities.  We have black market elk buyers, bear gall buyers...the list goes on and on and on.....

Yet WDFW continues to further restrict the legal ethical hunter while doing very little to the most egregious poachers.  It's backwards logic; WDFW should be facilitating legal ethical hunting while going after those egregious poachers.

Very well said, KF

Offline oldleclercrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 1435
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #54 on: November 02, 2014, 09:33:18 AM »
This outfitter (whoever it is) probably leases a ton of acres. If they want to attract all the deer on they're lease land into one area, it's they're lease right? I know many farmers that shoot 10-15 deer and elk a year on their 2000 acres.. lots of deer killed like the outfitter. HOWEVER, the outfitter (never hunted at an outfitter so this is just speculation) I'm sure manages the animals killed on this lease to ensure a healthy number of bucks for the following year (or they would run out of deer for business, right?). The farmer just shoots to fill their tags, unaware of the impact it has for the following year.

I guess my point is, despite the method to bring in the animals, who is harder on the deer herd? The outfitter that, yes takes tons of animals but manages their land to do so, OR the farmer (not saying all are this way) that just shoots every available animal and hopes there's more next year. Baiting is far from the issue here. It's just simply a way to harvest the animals.
Aim small, miss small.

Offline DBHAWTHORNE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 4461
  • Location: Cheney
  • Groups: Washington For Wildlife
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #55 on: November 02, 2014, 09:33:47 AM »
We as hunters enjoy the same things. The outdoors, the animals, the meat in the freezer, ect. We enjoy these RIGHTS. To keep these rights, we as a small group need to stick together. Maybe some describe those unwilling to stand up for the hunting community's rights "anti-hunters" or maybe they're "not team players". I see it as "anti-team" personally. Call it what you want. This is what it comes down to. This is an issue attacking the hunting communities rights, just in the baiting department this time. Next year the issue may be against the rifle hunters. We're asking for your help now, and in return we're gonna stand by you next time to help protect your issue.... LIKE TEAM MEMBERS DO.

I don't think they are anti-hunters... I just say they are supporting an anti-hunter position.... because they are...it's a fact.

They aren't rights, hunting is a privilege in WA and that needs to be changed.  Hunting nationwide needs to be a RIGHT.

We also need to stop chipping away at all the various forms of hunting, trapping and other various form of outdoor recreation.  It's getting pathetic.  They can't enforce the laws (WDFW) we have yet strive to make more.  We have Russians gilnetting the mouths of streams and they very rarely get caught.  We have areas of poacher communities where you will not find a deer within 10 miles of those communities.  We have black market elk buyers, bear gall buyers...the list goes on and on and on.....

Yet WDFW continues to further restrict the legal ethical hunter while doing very little to the most egregious poachers.  It's backwards logic; WDFW should be facilitating legal ethical hunting while going after those egregious poachers.

I agree but I will say....Hunting for my own food is a right... It may not be written into the state constitution that way but let them try to stop it completely.. They would quickly find out that they do not have the power to do anything about it and it would be very harmful to the wildlife... those rights can certainly be taken away if you abuse them and harm others or do massive harm to the ecosystem... just as my rights and freedom can be taken away if I abuse it and break the laws in other ways.
The views expressed here are solely those of the author in his private capacity and do not in any way represent the views of  the Department of Defense or any other entity of the US Government. The Department of Defense does not approve, endorse or authorize this posting.

Offline KFhunter

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 34514
  • Location: NE Corner
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2014, 09:37:16 AM »
We need to take a lesson from the LGBT community.  LGBT make up less than 4% of the overall population but due to their cohesion have secured tremendous ground in legal protections and public acceptance.

Quote
The Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law, a sexual orientation law think tank, released a study in April 2011 estimating based on its research that 1.7 percent of American adults identify as gay or lesbian, while another 1.8 percent identify as bisexual.

Because we are the few and they are the many doesn't mean with a little more cohesion in the hunting community we can't accomplish more and save what little opportunity we have.  Instead we all bicker and in-fight and worse vote away one another's privileges because they aren't what 'we' think of as fair chase hunt.


Offline DBHAWTHORNE

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 4461
  • Location: Cheney
  • Groups: Washington For Wildlife
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2014, 09:40:26 AM »
We need to take a lesson from the LGBT community.  LGBT make up less than 4% of the overall population but due to their cohesion have secured tremendous ground in legal protections and public acceptance.

Quote
The Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law, a sexual orientation law think tank, released a study in April 2011 estimating based on its research that 1.7 percent of American adults identify as gay or lesbian, while another 1.8 percent identify as bisexual.

Because we are the few and they are the many doesn't mean with a little more cohesion in the hunting community we can't accomplish more and save what little opportunity we have.  Instead we all bicker and in-fight and worse vote away one another's privileges because they aren't what 'we' think of as fair chase hunt.

Yes... we need a well thought out strategic message on this issue and we need to unite.
The views expressed here are solely those of the author in his private capacity and do not in any way represent the views of  the Department of Defense or any other entity of the US Government. The Department of Defense does not approve, endorse or authorize this posting.

Offline Jonathan_S

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 8964
  • Location: Medical Lake
  • Volleyfire Brigade, Cryder apologist
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2014, 09:47:40 AM »
We need to take a lesson from the LGBT community.  LGBT make up less than 4% of the overall population but due to their cohesion have secured tremendous ground in legal protections and public acceptance.

Quote
The Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law, a sexual orientation law think tank, released a study in April 2011 estimating based on its research that 1.7 percent of American adults identify as gay or lesbian, while another 1.8 percent identify as bisexual.

Because we are the few and they are the many doesn't mean with a little more cohesion in the hunting community we can't accomplish more and save what little opportunity we have.  Instead we all bicker and in-fight and worse vote away one another's privileges because they aren't what 'we' think of as fair chase hunt.

True that but they also have the media which is something we as hunters are far from having.

Not to nitpick Sir.
Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.

Offline oldleclercrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 1435
Re: OPPOSE ANY RESTRICTION ON BAITING - EMAIL TO WDFW
« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2014, 09:50:16 AM »
We as hunters enjoy the same things. The outdoors, the animals, the meat in the freezer, ect. We enjoy these RIGHTS. To keep these rights, we as a small group need to stick together. Maybe some describe those unwilling to stand up for the hunting community's rights "anti-hunters" or maybe they're "not team players". I see it as "anti-team" personally. Call it what you want. This is what it comes down to. This is an issue attacking the hunting communities rights, just in the baiting department this time. Next year the issue may be against the rifle hunters. We're asking for your help now, and in return we're gonna stand by you next time to help protect your issue.... LIKE TEAM MEMBERS DO.

I don't think they are anti-hunters... I just say they are supporting an anti-hunter position.... because they are...it's a fact.

I understand where your coming from DB. I was trying to break it down in other words so the other hunters don't think we're attacking them. Like I've said before, if you don't support our opportunities as a whole, you are part of the problem.
Aim small, miss small.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Let’s see your best Washington buck by high_hunter
[Yesterday at 10:31:08 PM]


Bearpaw Season - Spring 2024 by actionshooter
[Yesterday at 09:43:51 PM]


Walked a cougar down by MADMAX
[Yesterday at 08:31:53 PM]


Which 12” boat trailer tires? by timberhunter
[Yesterday at 08:22:18 PM]


Lowest power 22 round? by JakeLand
[Yesterday at 08:06:13 PM]


1x scopes vs open sights by JakeLand
[Yesterday at 07:29:35 PM]


Long Beach Clamming Tides by Encore 280
[Yesterday at 05:16:00 PM]


WTS Suppressors I Can Get by dreadi
[Yesterday at 03:30:33 PM]


SB 5444 signed by Inslee on 03/26 Takes Effect on 06/06/24 by Longfield1
[Yesterday at 03:27:51 PM]


Straight on by kentrek
[Yesterday at 03:04:53 PM]


2024-2026 Hunting Season Proposals by trophyhunt
[Yesterday at 01:51:40 PM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal