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Author Topic: Griz in the Cascades  (Read 25994 times)

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2015, 06:47:24 AM »
They have always had a presence in Wa. I saw sign and scat of one in Storrey Creek area in the Teanaway back in the early 90s that was confirmed by the WDFW. One had also made its way along the cascades near Mt Rainier/Mowich area and was confirmed by scat/hair samples around the same time, My wifes uncle is a retired gamey and confirmed it as well.

Well if some have their way, more will be brought in. This is the bone.
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Offline netcoyote

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2015, 07:44:46 AM »
They have always had a presence in Wa. I saw sign and scat of one in Storrey Creek area in the Teanaway back in the early 90s that was confirmed by the WDFW. One had also made its way along the cascades near Mt Rainier/Mowich area and was confirmed by scat/hair samples around the same time, My wifes uncle is a retired gamey and confirmed it as well.

Well if some have their way, more will be brought in. This is the bone.

So it wasn't so far fetched for me to think I saw one down near Mt Adams?

As far as worrying about all the government "meetings" and public decision making on the distribution of bears, I think all we need to do is look at the introduction of wolves as an example. There seemed to be ample evidence that "someone" was facilitating releases before public officials were admitting to it in announcements and meetings.
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2015, 07:48:04 AM »
I'd find a grizz near Mt. Adams difficult to believe, although not impossible.
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Offline netcoyote

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2015, 09:26:23 AM »
I'd find a grizz near Mt. Adams difficult to believe, although not impossible.

Agree. I'm not going to swear on a bible that it was a griz, because I don't have any other proof or evidence other than my mental image for a brief instant as the critter jogged across the road in front of me, full side profile, maybe 50 yards ahead. I was too rattled at the time to look for prints, I had my dog with me and had passed through the same area several hours earlier. I just made a mental note of it and have been looking for someone else to either see something of it or some sign.
I'd never argue the point, just not worth it, and I know that wasn't your intent p'man. I'm satisfied that it was one of the most memorable things I have ever seen in the wild.
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Offline huntrights

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2015, 10:04:57 PM »


http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.12.035

"RCW 77.12.035
Protection of grizzly bears — Limitation on transplantation or introduction — Negotiations with federal and state agencies.
   

The commission shall protect grizzly bears and develop management programs on publicly owned lands that will encourage the natural regeneration of grizzly bears in areas with suitable habitat. Grizzly bears shall not be transplanted or introduced into the state. Only grizzly bears that are native to Washington state may be utilized by the department for management programs. The department is directed to fully participate in all discussions and negotiations with federal and state agencies relating to grizzly bear management and shall fully communicate, support, and implement the policies of this section.

[2000 c 107 § 211; 1995 c 370 § 1.]"

Offline mfswallace

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2015, 10:31:21 PM »


http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.12.035

"RCW 77.12.035
Protection of grizzly bears — Limitation on transplantation or introduction — Negotiations with federal and state agencies.
   

The commission shall protect grizzly bears and develop management programs on publicly owned lands that will encourage the natural regeneration of grizzly bears in areas with suitable habitat. Grizzly bears shall not be transplanted or introduced into the state. Only grizzly bears that are native to Washington state may be utilized by the department for management programs. The department is directed to fully participate in all discussions and negotiations with federal and state agencies relating to grizzly bear management and shall fully communicate, support, and implement the policies of this section.

[2000 c 107 § 211; 1995 c 370 § 1.]"

 :tup:  can't wait for the answer in cle elum...

Offline Jingles

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2015, 09:31:28 AM »
Not saying I know but what I see as their answer is in the second sentence

Grizzly bears shall not be transplanted or introduced into the state. Only grizzly bears that are native to Washington state may be utilized by the department for management programs.

This is not A WDFW program it is a USFWS program and therefore does not apply to the restrictions..  Knowing the way WDFW and the feds lie about everything else tell me you can't see the use of this play on words being used.

Consequentially here come the problem bears from all over hells half acre if some haven't already been brought in
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 09:37:01 AM by Jingles »
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Offline netcoyote

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2015, 04:21:46 PM »
Not saying I know but what I see as their answer is in the second sentence

Grizzly bears shall not be transplanted or introduced into the state. Only grizzly bears that are native to Washington state may be utilized by the department for management programs.

This is not A WDFW program it is a USFWS program and therefore does not apply to the restrictions..  Knowing the way WDFW and the feds lie about everything else tell me you can't see the use of this play on words being used.

Consequentially here come the problem bears from all over hells half acre if some haven't already been brought in

Seems the trend in today's government policy makers is to hide everything, lie about the rest and disregard the law. Laws are only for revenue generation by the non-government people (us). This methodology worked for them with the introduction of wolves, don't know why we should expect something different with bears.
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Offline wolfbait

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2015, 10:41:08 AM »

Offline Jingles

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2015, 11:26:42 AM »
Wolfbaits post is in regards to the roads however as an active wilderness trail rider via horseback I can attest to the fact that the trails are probably in the worse shape thy have ever been due to absolutely the most minimal maintenance being done by USFS. Wonder if there is any intended coincidence between the USFS and USFWS.  No that would be a conspiracy theory... Oh my hat must of fallen off
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Offline wolfbait

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2015, 11:30:51 AM »
Has anyone seen a 99.9% sighting of a grizzly bear?

Offline netcoyote

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2015, 02:27:46 PM »
Has anyone seen a 99.9% sighting of a grizzly bear?

Wow! This could be the start of another thread to rival Bigfoot.  :chuckle:
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Offline denali

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2015, 09:58:42 PM »
http://www.capitalpress.com/Washington/20150306/county-may-sue-to-stop-grizzly-restoration

County may sue to stop grizzly restoration



Okanogan County commissioners say they may sue to stop grizzly bear restoration in the North Cascades. Chelan County commissioners also oppose the idea put forth by federal and state agencies.

OKANOGAN, Wash. — Okanogan County commissioners are exploring the possibility of a lawsuit to prevent the U.S. Department of Interior from restoring grizzly bears to the North Cascades.

“We think we have uncovered enough of where they did not follow procedure and process. They’re no different than their commander in D.C. running rogue with his pencil and phone. Yes, Obama,” said Jim DeTro, Okanogan County commissioner.

The county was talking to state legislators in Olympia about its options after the National Park Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service held open houses in Winthrop on March 3 and in Okanogan on March 4 to help them determine whether to take an active role in grizzly restoration. It could include moving grizzlies into the North Cascades from other places in the U.S. and Canada.

Commissioners strongly oppose restoration and say a majority of county residents do. Ranchers, back country horsemen, ATV users, hobby farmers and rural residents don’t want another apex predator to worry about, DeTro said.

About 100 people attended the open house in Okanogan, he said.

“It’s a very, very disgruntled public. They’re not happy with the process. It was set up so you really couldn’t comment. It’s divide and conquer. They diffuse the situation as best they can so they can check the box when they go back to wherever they go and say, ‘Yes we had a meeting in Okanogan County,’” DeTro said.

There was no general forum for oral presentations by federal employees or public comment. Instead, multiple stations were set up where people could get information and interact with state and federal agency employees and then put written comments in a box.

“Dal Dagnon (a Tonasket rancher) took a mic and gave them a pretty good talking to,” DeTro said.

“These people shove this stuff at Okanogan County as a poster child and target Okanogan County for everything they can think of and Okanogan County is fed up,” he said.

“What the hell is the NPS doing taking comments on grizzly recovery? These agencies are in bed with or have imbedded greenies and are de facto fundraising for the greenies,” DeTro said, explaining federal efforts draw attention to the issue and helps environmentalists raise money.

The federal effort is an end run to try to accomplish what couldn’t be accomplished through the state in the past, he said.

A March 5 open house in Wenatchee was the same format with no oral presentations or comments. A couple dozen people attended.

This is the scoping phase from which alternative plans will be developed with a final decision on whether to actively pursue restoration made jointly by NPS and USFWS in three years, said Ann Froschauer, USFWS spokeswoman.

While grizzlies are more plentiful in other parts of Canada and the U.S., a small population lives on the Canadian side of the North Cascades and ventures into Washington state, although there have been no confirmed sightings in Washington since 1996, said Chris Servheen, USFWS grizzly bear recovery coordinator from Missoula, Mont.

“What we would like to do is improve their status, focusing on remote areas of the Pasayten Wilderness and North Cascades National Park,” he said.

The agencies want to keep them in remote areas and bears who endanger people or livestock would be relocated and if they re-offend a second time, destroyed, Servheen said. Problem bears from other areas “absolutely” would not be brought into the North Cascades, he said.

The North Cascades ecosystem is about 10,000 square miles and could safely handle 200 bears, he said. The Yellowstone ecosystem is about the same size and has 1,000 grizzlies that largely stay away from people, he said.

But Doug England, a Chelan County commissioner, said it will be difficult for the same area to be used by grizzlies and hikers.

“We are part of their food chain,” England said. “Hikers and sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the grizzly world.”

Chelan County commissioners sent a letter of opposition to the agencies, he said. It was interesting, he said, to see state Fish and Wildlife personnel at the meeting when state law prevents the state from spending money on grizzly bear recovery.

Any lawsuit likely would boil down to whether the state overrides the federal government in recovery jurisdiction, he said.

Evidence grizzlies lived in Washington is all anecdotal, not historical data, he said.

“This is serious in Stehekin. These are areas we hike with our grandchildren,” he said, adding the concerns of people whose lives and livelihoods will be impacted should carry more weight than those who don’t.

Open houses were set for Cle Elum March 9, Seattle March 10 and Bellingham March 11. Comments will be received through March 26 at: http://parkplanning.nps.gov/NCEG.
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Offline mfswallace

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2015, 06:10:55 AM »
Worked late last night and missed it, any updates from the cle elum meeting?

Offline Bob33

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Re: Griz in the Cascades
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2015, 06:21:19 AM »
"We are part of their food chain,” England said. “Hikers and sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the grizzly world.”
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

 


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