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Author Topic: The little things  (Read 169675 times)

Offline Special T

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Re: The little things
« Reply #210 on: July 01, 2015, 01:08:04 PM »
Just found this thread. Interesting and insightful.  2 points I want to make. Practice and video recording it are 2 things that improve a shooter. From talking with a couple of pro shops many shooters subsitute "tuning" for form practice. I witnessed a shooter come into a pro shop and asked for it to be tunned because the bow was shooting in consistant. The pro picked up the bow shot it wrong handed with too short of draw and put 3 arrows in the bullseye.
It made me think that every shop/club should own a hooter shooter. 2c

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In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline bowtechian

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Re: The little things
« Reply #211 on: July 01, 2015, 01:42:46 PM »
After picking up a bow after 20yrs that's one of the first lessons I learned was that it was me ie my form not the bow!!  I wish someone woulda told me I need to approach it as I was doing it for the first time

Offline D-Rock425

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Re: The little things
« Reply #212 on: July 01, 2015, 06:30:09 PM »
I can't shoot with glasses on.

Just wait!  You'll be getting old soon enough.  Then you will be just like me. :chuckle:

Same, nose piece blocks my sight thru peep

You need different glasses or a shorter draw length.
my glasses problem is always with thick framed Sun glasses.

Offline JJB11B

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Re: The little things
« Reply #213 on: July 01, 2015, 07:32:07 PM »
I don't think I have ever had a problem with shooting a bow with eyewear on. I do have that problem when shooting a rifle in the prone with a helmet and eyewear, I usually have to swipe the eyepro down my face to get a clear look at my front sight  :bash:
"Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever."
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Offline Vo2max

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Re: The little things
« Reply #214 on: July 01, 2015, 08:38:32 PM »
In regard to optimal hand-bow interface, back tension, floating the pin; I learned a huge lesson this afternoon... I've been shooting bows since I was 11yrs old and hunting since 14,
Now just shy of 39 yo... Was at range today dialing some new arrows and sight tape that RadSav took a lot of time helping me with (thanks again brother!). I was at 70yds and was all over the place with my group. I then went through the basics... "Bubble level, stiff arm, no true grip on the handle, press the the at eminence into the handle, pull the opposite elbow back, anchor, float my single pin up and onto the target.... Thwap! Winner, winner, chicken dinner! Amazing feeling to pinwheel the X and know why. Especially good after running the archery range (2.5) miles and then shooting long distances at a dot. Anyway, a small tweak one way or another, Inconsistencies with your anchor point, punching the trigger, not breathing (a whole other topic in and of itself) can create havoc. Dial those shooting techniques in now people...
The elk and deer would rather be dead quickly than to die a slow death resulting from being wounded I assure you.

We owe it to the game we hunt to be as accurate as possible and to know our limits.

Erik

Offline Todd_ID

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Re: The little things
« Reply #215 on: July 16, 2015, 09:34:22 AM »
Keep on going here RAD. This has helped plenty of folks a bunch.
Bring a GPS!  It's awkward to have to eat your buddies!

Offline northcoast

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Re: The little things
« Reply #216 on: July 16, 2015, 12:27:04 PM »
my glasses problem is always with thick framed Sun glasses.

Sun glasses or beer goggles? :P

Offline JJB11B

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Re: The little things
« Reply #217 on: July 21, 2015, 07:16:43 PM »
I dropped my bow off with Steve this morning, unfortunately due to spending almost all night watching a fire burn and making sure my friends place was packed up I woke up later than I wanted and didn't have time to learn anything from Steve. He is going to re-string my bow and hopefully help me find some new arrows.

---UPDATED---------------------------
Picked up my bow from Steve this Morning, he had it done by 5pm yesterday, he also found me a dozen arrows and got them cut to size fletched and inserts in, I am almost back in business. now to find a place to shoot the danged contraption. I was informed recently that the city of walla walla has a "Projectile Ordinance"
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 02:31:15 PM by JJB11B »
"Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever."
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Offline RadSav

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Re: The little things
« Reply #218 on: July 28, 2015, 03:15:24 AM »
Peep Sight – Big or Small

It seems each week I receive a PM, email or letter asking me to suggest the proper peep aperture size for someone.  While it is almost impossible to pick a peep aperture out of thin air to work best for each archer there are some rules and guidelines that can help narrow the personal choice.  Of course if you are one of the growing masses that choose to shadow the sight guard worried about little else the choice is simple.  Just choose a little smaller or larger depending on what view you see with your current peep.  But if you have chosen to center the pin then peep aperture size can address many different issues besides just what we shadow.

Myself, I don’t care to shadow anything.  I prefer to look right through the peep when hunting and allow my minds corrective instinct to find center.  And when I was younger that was about all I needed to improve success.  I manufactured my first peep for personal use to be what I called .22 caliber.  It allowed maximum view in low light yet small enough for my mind to recognize it as round and find center.  But as I aged problems started to arise and I began to question whether I was using the right peep.  Luckily for me I had plenty to test and study my results with each.

What I found surprised me at first.  I had looked through the lens of conjecture along with so many others and did not recognize the facts.  As I compiled more data and more data it became difficult to ignore the evidence and follow the erroneous common consensus.   The answers were there!  All I had to do was open my mind and accept the science.  I felt pretty darn stupid when I finally let it all sink in.


How many times have you read or heard an older archer say, “My eyes aren’t what they used to be.  I need a bigger peep.”?  Well, I hear that a lot.  And I can honestly say now, “That is likely the wrong way to go!”


As we age or get thicker glasses we do begin to lose some of our night vision.  And if that were our only lying trouble the larger peep scenario would be correct.  But rarely is our low light vision through the peep our only challenge.  As we age we also lose definition and depth of field.  Both of which are made worse by increasing our peep aperture!

Like most aging archers I struggled most with the loss of my depth of field.  As the pin grew blurry I concentrated more on it.  As the target got blurry I struggled to concentrate on it.  After a while my brain got confused and I’d see three dots for every pin and two targets beyond the plethora of dots.  While I could tell early on which dot was brightest and which target was fullest it became more difficult as time went on and my eyes continued to deteriorate.  Eventually my target panic ran out of control and I tried to come to grips with how I would run an archery company when I couldn’t hunt with the bow any longer.

I dropped my favorite .22 caliber peep (by then known as our 7/32”) and went back to the 3/16” aperture.  I instantly saw improvement!  I then dropped the aperture size again to our 5/32” and all started to become right with the world again.  Suddenly the second target disappeared and all I had was one single blurry dot.  I could actually feel the tension in my head relax along with tension in my neck and shoulders that I didn’t realize had become tight as well.

Each time I dropped my aperture 1/32” I saw improvement to my depth of field and the clarity of my pin.  Had I been a 3-D shooter or someone that only hunts in wide open spaces in full light I likely would have settled in on a 3/32” aperture as the best for me.  Unfortunately, with my maturity spectacles I easily lost sight of targets in shadows.  I also had difficulty with target acquisition in low light under a heavy canopy.  So I worked my way back up in aperture size practicing in the last hour of shooting light in tall timber.  I didn’t find enough benefit to the 1/8” over the 5/32” to warrant choosing the 1/8” just yet.  But, it wouldn’t surprise me if a 1/8” is in my not too distant future.

My conclusion was that our eyes through a peep are like the image through a camera’s iris.  While the film will show far greater depth of field with a small iris opening sometimes we cannot gather enough light to show that detail in the resulting picture.  So we must sacrifice some depth if shooting in low light by opening up the iris to maximize light, definition and depth.  With an acceptable compromise we can be happy with the end result.

I know for me, those 2/32nds of an inch were the little things that changed my bowhunting future.  Maybe going larger or smaller could improve your success and enjoyment as well!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 05:17:37 AM by RadSav »
He asked, Do you ever give a short simple answer?  I replied, "Nope."

Offline bowtechian

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Re: The little things
« Reply #219 on: July 28, 2015, 05:10:55 AM »
So what is the rule of thumb for your sight picture when your looking through the peep @ the sight? Always thought you we're supposed to just see the inside of the ring

Offline RadSav

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Re: The little things
« Reply #220 on: July 28, 2015, 05:29:09 AM »
So what is the rule of thumb for your sight picture when your looking through the peep @ the sight? Always thought you we're supposed to just see the inside of the ring

That seems to be the new wave of how to use a sight.  I do not attend that school of thought myself. (See previous topic: Why do I shoot Low at close range and High at long range?)  I could care less if my pin guard was round, square or triangle shaped.  I want the pin AND the target to be in the center of my focus.  Same as the mind wants it too!

I'm in no way telling people to change.  Just bring up the possibility that you may find yourself more successful in the woods if you center the pin.
He asked, Do you ever give a short simple answer?  I replied, "Nope."

Offline JJB11B

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Re: The little things
« Reply #221 on: July 29, 2015, 04:40:02 PM »
New question! I switched arrows from Quickstrikes to Vapors. Both arrows take an "H" nock. My Nocturnal nocks do not fit very tightly in the arrows, I took a regular nock and tried it in both my old and new arrows and it fit nice and snug, The Nocturnal nocks are so loose that you can easily pull the knock off just by pulling the arrow off the string. Is there any way to help them out to be a little tighter? I considered putting string wax on the nock but wasn't sure if this is a good Idea
"Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever."
Shane Falco

Offline RadSav

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Re: The little things
« Reply #222 on: July 29, 2015, 08:35:24 PM »
New question! I switched arrows from Quickstrikes to Vapors. Both arrows take an "H" nock. My Nocturnal nocks do not fit very tightly in the arrows, I took a regular nock and tried it in both my old and new arrows and it fit nice and snug, The Nocturnal nocks are so loose that you can easily pull the knock off just by pulling the arrow off the string. Is there any way to help them out to be a little tighter? I considered putting string wax on the nock but wasn't sure if this is a good Idea

Easiest fix is to ditch the Nockturnals :tung:

But, if you have your heart set on lighted nocks I do have a solution.  Took quite a while before I found a fix for the old Carbon Express nocks that were too loose also.  The solution I came up with was dental tape.  I took four pieces of floss and fed them into the shaft and let them hang over the outside of the shaft.  Then simply pushed the nocks in.  Worked really well!  Another option is one a friend of mine did in Oregon.  He just glued them in with rubber/contact cement.  I have not done that, but he claims you can still remove broken nocks and the shafts clean up with alcohol and a gun cleaning brush.
He asked, Do you ever give a short simple answer?  I replied, "Nope."

Offline JJB11B

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Re: The little things
« Reply #223 on: July 30, 2015, 08:40:55 PM »
I have a horrible time seeing my arrow in flight, the lighted knocks will help me a little. I have the same problem even with golf balls off a tee
"Pain heals, chicks dig scars, glory lasts forever."
Shane Falco

Offline RadSav

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Re: The little things
« Reply #224 on: July 31, 2015, 03:29:30 AM »
Where Is My Next Arrow!

As bowhunting season draws near archers start to increase their practice/shooting routines in hopes of hitting stride at the optimum moment.  But all too often archers hit a plateau or even experience a loss of consistency in the final two or three weeks before opening day.  Entering into their season with a loss of confidence and worried about when the opportunity for that one shot presents itself.

These little tortures are often a result of shooting and not practicing.  This culprit is so often over looked as a source of failure the archer never realizes it is happening.  All they know is their time and effort is not paying off.  They make last minute changes to their bow, release, sight, arrows, string, their rest…  All in an attempt to purchase a solution to a problem caused by no mechanical issue whatsoever!

The solution is so darn simple most students immediately claim, “That’s not it!” or “I’m not doing that!” when I advise them of the issue.  But if I show them a short blip of a video from my phone the response is usually, “Wholly cow.  I can’t believe I’m doing that!”  This Little Thing is what I refer to as - Where is my next arrow?



Shooting is important in the early stages of archery development.  Our muscle memory needs to become ingrained in the subconscious, our muscles need to strengthen and our trajectory needs to become ingrained into the mind’s eye.  But once those things are developed shooting leads to habits.  Unfortunately many of those habits are bad.  To avoid those bad habits we need to transition from Shooting to Practicing.  Especially in those days and weeks before hunting season!

Practicing means slowing things down – A LOT!  We want to focus on the individual motions.  Shooting each arrow one by one.  No longer are we in a nock the arrow, draw the bow, aim and shoot mode.  We want to break every single element down to its basic form.  Nock the arrow, then think about it.  Attach the hook to the D-Loop, think about it.  Breath, think about it.  Draw the bow and settle into our anchor in a single smooth motion, think about it...  And the deliberate step-by-step doesn’t stop when we touch off the release!  We need to be sure we take the time to think about each shot even after the arrow hits the target.  We don't get this luxury in the field so we need to take advantage at the range.

I like the last moment before I start the process over to be a series of questions to myself.  I ask, “Was that a good shot?  How did that feel?” Most importantly…wait for an honest answer!!  If my honest answer is, “No” then I review each step in the process and try to figure out where it went wrong.  I could care less where the arrow went or if I even know where it landed on the target.  I know if I made the right shot the arrow will be there.  My concern is whether I want to repeat as just completed or if I want to adjust the approach. 

What happens when we abandon practice and just shoot is that we rush.  We rush so much that we do not recognize the bad when it bites.  And worst of all we reach for the next arrow to shoot before we have finished the current shot.  For right handed shooters that breakdown usually results in strings going high left or flyers going low right.  Though complete random shotgun patterning can also result if it gets bad enough.

After watching hundreds of shooters I am willing to bet well over half break away from the shot early reaching for the next arrow.  Leaving the archer with only one arrow in a quiver representing their true form and accuracy.  That being their last arrow knowing they no longer need to find the next one! 

Archers that use a ground quiver on their draw arm side are usually bit the worst.  I believe the biggest disservice archery shops do to their customers is supply traffic cones and/or ground quivers on their range.  Besides being poor business when your business is to sell target quivers, field quivers, side quivers and bow quivers.  These free use ground quivers breed collapse in form and destructive habits.  Do yourself and your shop a favor and buy a quiver! (or two as will be explained below - #3)


If you are like my wife you love to shoot and hate to practice!  And even more so she hates to load and unload her bow quiver while having a fun day of shooting.  If that sounds like you, I do have some solutions that will help keep the shooting demons at bay.  I like to mix these up so she never gets used to doing this the same way and form a bad habit.  Here they are:

#1 – I walk around behind her being her personal caddie.  Sometimes I’m on her left side, sometimes I’m on her right side and sometimes I am right behind her.  I make sure she never knows where the next arrow is coming from.  Without her turning around I have her ask, “Where is my next arrow?”Hence the reference!  If she asks too soon I will withhold giving her the next arrow for a moment or two.  This is by far the best scenario.  Unfortunately it takes two people and usually ends in an argument if the shooting session goes on too long! :chuckle:

#2 – I will stick arrows in the ground at random distances from the shooting line.  Making sure each is located behind and to her left as she is a right handed shooter.  This way she cannot simply reach for the next arrow.  She needs to locate and find where the next arrow is after each shot.  This doesn’t always get her to shoot slower, but it does stop the habitual reaching before the shot has been completed.  This works best if I place the random arrows, but she can do it herself if she remains disciplined.

#3 – I have her wear a left handed target or field quiver on her left hip.  With this method she must completely let go of the bow with the left hand between shots as the bow hand is now also the arrow retrieving hand.  Truly amazing how effective this is!  And it can be easy for someone wanting to curb the itch to reach when shooting alone.

#4 – And finally there is the best bowhunting practice/shooting method.  Of course beyond 25 yards this is the wife’s least favorite.  This is to show up at the range with a single arrow.  No helper needed.  Just a lot of walking back and forth to the target.  Shoot one perfect arrow, walk to the target and pull it, walk back to the line and repeat!

So there you have one of my little things that will help you continue to improve in those important days and weeks before hunting season.  It may seem like an insignificant Little Thing, but it pays off in a very Big way!

« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 04:29:19 PM by RadSav »
He asked, Do you ever give a short simple answer?  I replied, "Nope."

 


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