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Author Topic: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed  (Read 34490 times)

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2015, 09:20:27 PM »
Tank trap off Mills at the bottom, Praire Springs Rd.
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2015, 08:51:59 AM »
The FS (Flanagan's) main reasoning to keep it closed is a term she used multiple times in a recent conversation I had with her, "Alluvial fan situations"
After the fire a heavy rain event caused Pope Creek to swell, which caused debris to block a culvert, which in turn caused the creek to change its course and over flow the valley road. Over the years, Pope creek has had the same issues and to my knowledge the road/area has never been closed for any length of time before.

It is really mismanagement by the FS. Heavy run off in this area is nothing new, fire or not. An effective fix would be to install a much larger culvert for Pope Creek to run through, and an improved channel to the Entiat River.

I firmly believe the FS (with help from the greenies) goal is to eventually close all roads that are not listed as a level 4 or 5 maintenance level. They simply do not want to manage them.  :bash: :bash:

Here is what the Halfway Springs campground looks like after they turned it into a landing. :(
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 08:59:35 AM by NOCK NOCK »

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Offline Killmore

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2015, 08:59:24 AM »
And then in a few years when they need to get in there to fight a new fire they will wish they had maintained them roads..

Offline Elkaholic daWg

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2015, 09:44:42 AM »
 Motorized access.......Walk in access.................................................................. Does not matter since it's all about control which we should all be against BOTH forms of control. That's a very tough sell to many hunters unfortunately.

 Once again READ Bearpaws signature
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Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2015, 10:05:03 AM »
 :yeah:

Any form of controlling public access to public land is wrong

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Offline Special T

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2015, 10:15:32 AM »
http://www.amazon.com/Tinder-Box-Politically-Ideology-Destroyed/dp/098277348X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1342972902&sr=1-1&keywords=the+tinder+box+--+how+politically+correct+ideology+destroyed+the+u.s.+forest+service


If you want to understand the nature of this Push you should read this book. I have, and persuaded several other members on here to do so. So sum it up concisely, the USFS want to "Manage" in a hands off approach from behind a desk in the office, not out in the field.
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Offline Jingles

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2015, 11:07:51 AM »
http://www.amazon.com/Tinder-Box-Politically-Ideology-Destroyed/dp/098277348X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1342972902&sr=1-1&keywords=the+tinder+box+--+how+politically+correct+ideology+destroyed+the+u.s.+forest+service


If you want to understand the nature of this Push you should read this book. I have, and persuaded several other members on here to do so. So sum it up concisely, the USFS want to "Manage" in a hands off approach from behind a desk in the office, not out in the field.

That is evident by just looking at any of the trails.   The trails in the Methow district if it weren't for Back Country Horseman, Local Outfitters and other volunteers the dam trails wouldn't be passable
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Offline haugenna

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2015, 12:31:24 PM »
Tagging.

Offline Special T

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2015, 12:50:59 PM »
Jingles, I agree that there are lots of examples, and yours is just another one in the long list. How many times are our concerns deflected or ignored be cause "Its and isolated incident"?

I think there are 2 problems that are the root cause for the USFS the first (and most documented in the book 40 years worth) is the promotion quotas of those who traditionally who did not work in forestry or have the skills. The second is the ESA. Like MOST federal programs It has outlived the usefulness of its original intent. It basically halted the extinction of 99% of man caused decline, but now has been used as a bludgeon to push an addenda... Preventing Multi-use of public lands. The Sue and Settle technique used by Anti's inside and outside of the agency to push forth the environmental agenda without political review
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Offline Elkaholic daWg

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2015, 01:30:27 PM »
Jingles, I agree that there are lots of examples, and yours is just another one in the long list. How many times are our concerns deflected or ignored be cause "Its and isolated incident"?

I think there are 2 problems that are the root cause for the USFS the first (and most documented in the book 40 years worth) is the promotion quotas of those who traditionally who did not work in forestry or have the skills. The second is the ESA. Like MOST federal programs It has outlived the usefulness of its original intent. It basically halted the extinction of 99% of man caused decline, but now has been used as a bludgeon to push an addenda... Preventing Multi-use of public lands. The Sue and Settle technique used by Anti's inside and outside of the agency to push forth the environmental agenda without political review
:yeah: Got some oceanfront property in Arizona for you  if you DON'T believe that :yeah:
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Offline Biggerhammer

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2015, 01:42:15 PM »
The FS (Flanagan's) main reasoning to keep it closed is a term she used multiple times in a recent conversation I had with her, "Alluvial fan situations"
After the fire a heavy rain event caused Pope Creek to swell, which caused debris to block a culvert, which in turn caused the creek to change its course and over flow the valley road. Over the years, Pope creek has had the same issues and to my knowledge the road/area has never been closed for any length of time before.

It is really mismanagement by the FS. Heavy run off in this area is nothing new, fire or not. An effective fix would be to install a much larger culvert for Pope Creek to run through, and an improved channel to the Entiat River.

I firmly believe the FS (with help from the greenies) goal is to eventually close all roads that are not listed as a level 4 or 5 maintenance level. They simply do not want to manage them.  :bash: :bash:

Here is what the Halfway Springs campground looks like after they turned it into a landing. :(

I've shot my share of Bear in that area.
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2015, 07:44:10 PM »
The FS (Flanagan's) main reasoning to keep it closed is a term she used multiple times in a recent conversation I had with her, "Alluvial fan situations"
After the fire a heavy rain event caused Pope Creek to swell, which caused debris to block a culvert, which in turn caused the creek to change its course and over flow the valley road. Over the years, Pope creek has had the same issues and to my knowledge the road/area has never been closed for any length of time before.

It is really mismanagement by the FS. Heavy run off in this area is nothing new, fire or not. An effective fix would be to install a much larger culvert for Pope Creek to run through, and an improved channel to the Entiat River.

I firmly believe the FS (with help from the greenies) goal is to eventually close all roads that are not listed as a level 4 or 5 maintenance level. They simply do not want to manage them.

 Seems to me the best way to handle this would be to form "FAG" (Forest Advisory Group), load it up with greenies from the FS and a couple intelligent, diplomatic hunters to represent us on these controversial matters.  There will always be disagreement...but there just might be more common ground than folks here realize. The group might just work better together if they have an opportunity to get to know each other on a personal level. After all, what have we got to lose? :rolleyes:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline westside Elkhunter

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2015, 08:25:05 PM »
Anything good come from the open house earlier today?

Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2015, 08:53:18 PM »
NO

Same old Circus BS!!     I will post more about it tomorrow
 

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Offline muleracks

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Re: Upper Entiat Valley - Closed
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2015, 10:33:48 AM »
The information provided was useless but there were so many people and it was so noisy you really could hear anyway.  The point for us was to show a strong interest in having the road reopened.  Now we move on to force the issue with the Ranger, Forest Supervisor and on up the food chain.  There is committee working on the procedure.  Probably will not require a mass showing like the people of Entiat and many groups did Monday evening.

The Ranger seems to have no interest in seeking ways to mitigate the risks stated in the BAER report.   A review of the situation is suppose to happen soon and that should solve the issue because the BAER report grossly over states any risk to to the public.

 

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