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Author Topic: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?  (Read 12101 times)

Offline Westside88

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I'd planned to purchase a muzzleloader earlier this summer, but some things came up with the kids and my gun money got spent on other things. So here I am finally ready to do it. I looked at and handled every gun I could and I have it narrowed down to either a Bighorn Western with thumb hole stock or a disc extreme western with thumb hole stock. I've received some advice from very reputable people about the flexibility of the disc gun if I were to hunt in other states as well as the fact it has a bolt.  On the other hand it's about 25% more and I have no immediate plans outside Washington or Idaho.  I'm wondering if there is any other input. I think I'll be happy enough either way, just looking for some last minute input, thanks
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 08:52:33 PM by Westside88 »

Offline The100Road

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2015, 08:15:58 PM »
I have the Disc Extreme thumbhole and really like it so far. Like you said, Dont think you can really go wrong either way. Hook up with Sabotloader and he can tell you more then you would ever want to know.

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2015, 09:23:44 PM »
I'd planned to purchase a muzzleloader earlier this summer, but some things came up with the kids and my gun money got spent on other things. So here I am finally ready to do it. I looked at and handled every gun I could and I have it narrowed down to either a Bighorn Western with thumb hole stock or a disc extreme western with thumb hole stock. I've received some advice from very reputable people about the flexibility of the disc gun if I were to hunt in other states as well as the fact it has a bolt.  On the other hand it's about 25% more and I have no immediate plans outside Washington or Idaho.  I'm wondering if there is any other input. I think I'll be happy enough either way, just looking for some last minute input, thanks

Well, I was going to say that the added versatility of the DISC was well worth the difference.  + planning a little ahead might also be worth the added expense.

Either gun will work very well but I would go with the DISC.

When you get ready you might check the Sportsmans Guide on line for which ever one you want they have some outstanding deals going right now.

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Firedogg

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2015, 09:34:13 PM »
Big J's Outdoor in Orting has the Bighorn on sale for $349 and the Disc Extreme for $369.

  I got the Bighorn last year and for shooting iron sites for the first time in a long time I was real happy with how it shot. Easily in the kill zone at 100 yards unsupported. Either is a good choice.
There is no greater respect to have for wildlife than to harvest an animal fairly and use it's flesh to feed your family.  ~me

Offline Elk whack master

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2015, 09:34:34 PM »
X2 on the disc with thumbhole. Makes for nice carrying and a good hold when shooting. Really accurate! 200yrds no problem. 100 yards bullet hits on top of sight and 200 yrds 4"drop.
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Offline Wolfdog2314

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2015, 09:46:12 PM »
I started with a bighorn and upgraded to the disc with thumb hole. The thumb hole is a must. Also the breach on the disc is also a lot less "open". It's really only the size of a pinky nail and it's off to the side. A lot more protection for your cap.

Only negative to the disc is the weight and size compared to the bighorn. But I don't mind it.

110 grains triple 7 and a 300grain bloodline bullet was the nice combo for mine.

Good luck.

Offline CoyoteChuck52

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2015, 09:56:08 PM »
Disc Extreme  hands down your flavor of stock option
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Offline Maverick

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2015, 12:17:47 AM »
I have the bighorn with thumb hole and love it. If anyone hears of sportsmans or anywhere online I can buy one when there's a good sale let me know cause I need another for my girlfriend.

Offline usmc74

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2015, 04:51:19 AM »
I have the Bighorn.  (3 of them)  Bought 1 and liked it, bought another for the thumbhole stock model, then bought a new stainless barrel and built a laminated stock thumbhole rifle with a Boyd's stock.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 08:35:16 AM by usmc74 »

Offline Westside88

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2015, 06:36:11 AM »
Thanks for all the input. I'm feeling even better that either will be good, I'm starting to lean towards the disc if I can find a reasonable deal. I'll check out some of the places mentioned. Thanks

Offline usmc74

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2015, 09:12:39 AM »
My bighorn stainless sitting in the Boyd's stock

Offline Westside88

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2015, 02:40:08 PM »
Thanks for all the advice I've received. I decided to buy a Disc gun and bought the last one today at Sportsmans Warehouse. I didn't have much time so I didn't buy any of the other things I'll need. I just wanted to make sure to get it while I could. I'll be posting later looking for advice on all the misc. items needed. Again thanks everyone

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2015, 04:22:57 PM »
Thanks for all the advice I've received. I decided to buy a Disc gun and bought the last one today at Sportsmans Warehouse. I didn't have much time so I didn't buy any of the other things I'll need. I just wanted to make sure to get it while I could. I'll be posting later looking for advice on all the misc. items needed. Again thanks everyone

One of the first things I would ask you to do is to open the bolt and then pull the trigger as you are lowering the bolt. Next look at the open are at the end of the bolt and see how far the hammer is extended out of the face of the bolt and most importantly - How far is it from the top of the nipple?  It should almost touch the nipple or even appear to be resting on the nipple.

I am not sure which cap you might choose to use - #11 or Musket - I would suggest a #11 MAG cap.  I would also suggest the next time you return to Sportsmans see if you can find some RWS 1075+ caps.  Sportsmans normally carry these caps. They are just a tad bit hotter than CCI #11 Mag caps.  Both of the mentioned caps equal the heat of a the Musket caps being sold today.  When you get the caps and I would suggest a Traditions #11 capper that looks like this:





Then put  a few caps in the capper go out in the garage or a place of your choice place a cap on the nipple and fire it to verify that the rifle will ignite the cap.  Try three of them.  If it shoots you have cleared a very big hurdle - if it doesn't it is not a difficult fix.

Also do not take your bolt apart until you a familiar with how to do it and how to put it back together. It is a simple operation but it helps to know how to do it.

mike
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Offline Westside88

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2015, 08:13:11 PM »
I did as you suggested, it basically looks like it's touching. I'll try and pick up the caps you suggested. The guy at the store was trying to convince me musket caps were way better because they burn hotter.  I've seen a lot of what you've posted about the #11's so I'll give them a shot. What other items should I be looking for? So muzzle loader use a specific cleaning kit or just a brush for what I have?
From what I've gathered on here it sounds like triple seven loose powder is better than pellets. As for bullets bloodlines? Barnes? Is a 300 grain a good place to start or 275?  I plan to hunt elk on the west side.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 09:32:58 AM by Westside88 »

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2015, 09:18:55 AM »
I did as you suggested, it basically looks like it's touching.

Great! then basically you are in good shape - the caps will go boom!

Quote
I'll try and pick up the caps you suggested. The guy at the store was trying to convince me musket caps were way better because they burn hotter.

For some reason Musket caps are the choice in in Washington - they work very well for a lot of people.  I just feel there are some real advantageous for #11's.  One of the biggest in a Knight bolt the #11 capper fits so much better and it seems to me that more of the heat and pressure of the #11 is confined in the nipple and through to the breech.  If you look at your breech plug you will se the powder drops right to the base of the nipple - another reason I use T7-3f - it's granules are so small they definitely rest on the nose of the nipple. 

Quote
I've seen a lot of what you've posted about the #11's so I'll give me a shot. What other items should I be looking for?

A friend of mine create a list once exactly for this question - let me see if it is still posted. It is a huge read so I will just post an address to it. Hope that is OK with this site.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=19040

Quote
So muzzle loader use a specific cleaning kit or just a brush for what I have?
From what I've gathered on here it sounds like triple seven loose powder is better than pellets. As for bullets bloodlines? Barnes? Is a 300 grain a good place to start or 275?  I plan to hunt elk on the west side.

I use a range rod with a Spin-jag 'Original' attached, I use regular blue Windex patches, Birchwood Case 2-in-1 Bore Cleaner and Montana X-treme Bore Conditioner and a 50-54 cal. Bore Snake to clean the bore. Very seldom use a brush any longer.  Sabots do not leave the fouling that they use to. And T7 is water soluble so it is easy to remove.  The Windex with ammonia does an excellent job of dissolving T7 residue.

One thing I would throw out there and the reason I use Montana BC is that is a synthetic oil.  I would suggest to not to use any petroleum based oil in the bore and especially keep oils with Teflon out of the bore. Both Teflon and petroleum burn and can create a sticky mess.

As with the choice of caps - choice of bullets get even more challenging. Lot of real good people use and totally believe in Barnes bullets and there is not doubt that they are good.  In the pre-ML days I would choose a Nosler Partition all-day over a Barnes and today hunting with a ML - I really prefer the Lehigh/Bloodline and eventually I would say to follow Lehigh Defenses web-site for their introduction of the 275/300 CF bullet.

http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets

This new bullet with the new design is probably a slightly better bullet than the Boodlines that he build for Knight + shipping is greatly less than Knight.

One more thought for you on bullets.  A couple of years back I found this bullet on his website...

http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets/products/458-controlled-fracturing-305gr-bullet?variant=1073755480

It is a .458x305 grain bullet built for the 45-70 rifle.  It is a long bullet, but it will stabilize in a 1-28 twist if you shoot it with authority.  I shoot it with 110 grains of T7-3f powder to get the velocity up. ALSO this is a bullet built for a 45-70 so it is slightly less in diameter than a normal ML bullet - instead of using a .458 x 50 sabot I use a MMP HPH-24 sabot (a .452x50 sabot) - this sabot will grip the bore and the bullet tighter insuring no slippage of the bullet in the sabot and no slippage by the sabot in the bore.

The bullet works very well on the thicker skinned elk and equally well on a thin skinned 4x4 Whitetail buck. One day I was frustrated elk hunter when this basketball sized Whitetail rack appeared on the scene about 60 yards out.  Frustration took over and I shot the deer.

Anyway it is a great bullet also.

In my mind the 275gr. Bloodline is the best all around bullet of the bunch... but I will hang on the 305's



 

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline theleo

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2015, 10:47:37 AM »

It is a .458x305 grain bullet built for the 45-70 rifle.  It is a long bullet, but it will stabilize in a 1-28 twist if you shoot it with authority.  I shoot it with 110 grains of T7-3f powder to get the velocity up. ALSO this is a bullet built for a 45-70 so it is slightly less in diameter than a normal ML bullet - instead of using a .458 x 50 sabot I use a MMP HPH-24 sabot (a .452x50 sabot) - this sabot will grip the bore and the bullet tighter insuring no slippage of the bullet in the sabot and no slippage by the sabot in the bore.

The bullet works very well on the thicker skinned elk and equally well on a thin skinned 4x4 Whitetail buck. One day I was frustrated elk hunter when this basketball sized Whitetail rack appeared on the scene about 60 yards out.  Frustration took over and I shot the deer.

Anyway it is a great bullet also.

In my mind the 275gr. Bloodline is the best all around bullet of the bunch... but I will hang on the 305's
I enjoy reading your posts Sabotloader but I'm always curious about your bullet choices. I'm knew to muzzle loading so I'm just asking because I'm learning, but why not use soft lead bullets meant for hunting with 45-70's or 454 cassull's. Seems you could get a heavier bullet to stabilize as the density is higher than that of mono bullets of one design or another? I admit I get to cheat a little bit because I cast and can play with different alloys and choose flat, cup, or hollow points but just curious what I'd be giving up performance wise?

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2015, 11:06:46 AM »

It is a .458x305 grain bullet built for the 45-70 rifle.  It is a long bullet, but it will stabilize in a 1-28 twist if you shoot it with authority.  I shoot it with 110 grains of T7-3f powder to get the velocity up. ALSO this is a bullet built for a 45-70 so it is slightly less in diameter than a normal ML bullet - instead of using a .458 x 50 sabot I use a MMP HPH-24 sabot (a .452x50 sabot) - this sabot will grip the bore and the bullet tighter insuring no slippage of the bullet in the sabot and no slippage by the sabot in the bore.

The bullet works very well on the thicker skinned elk and equally well on a thin skinned 4x4 Whitetail buck. One day I was frustrated elk hunter when this basketball sized Whitetail rack appeared on the scene about 60 yards out.  Frustration took over and I shot the deer.

Anyway it is a great bullet also.

In my mind the 275gr. Bloodline is the best all around bullet of the bunch... but I will hang on the 305's


I enjoy reading your posts Sabotloader but I'm always curious about your bullet choices. I'm knew to muzzle loading so I'm just asking because I'm learning, but why not use soft lead bullets meant for hunting with 45-70's or 454 cassull's. Seems you could get a heavier bullet to stabilize as the density is higher than that of mono bullets of one design or another? I admit I get to cheat a little bit because I cast and can play with different alloys and choose flat, cup, or hollow points but just curious what I'd be giving up performance wise?

Really and right down to it - many bullets will work very well on elk if the hunter does his or hers part and understands the performance limitations of the bullet they choose to use.

Your choice to use or build your own lead bullets is great for you and many others.  In fact I use a .503x460 MT NEx Bull Shop here doing our ML season because by rule that is what I have to use. But during rifle season I would use what I feel is a much faster quickly acting bullet.

For me - the Lehigh or Lehigh/Bloodlines offer a wider range of 'Terminal Performance' than most any other bullet. I have less variables that I need to worry about and know that I will get a clean quick harvest even if I am off target 3-4" inches.  At my age I really need a bullet but that will provide a max destruction of internal organs yet provide great penetration from 10 yards to 200 yards.  It is important to me that the bullet induce enough traumatic shock to the animal that it overrides the animals 'flight response ' system.  Of course I can not guarantee that every time but I know from many years of use it will do it a majority of the time.

A few years ago someone asked me for my definition of a 'great' hunting bullet - I plagiarized most of this but this is my definition...

The Hunting bullet should be the most lethal big game hunting bullet available.   The bullet design should allow the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3”, through bone or tissue, before it starts to expand the petals.  After the bullet starts to expand or shed it petals it should adversely affect all the surrounding internal organs.  The combination between the expansion of the bullet and/or release of the petals and the creation of hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that can be 13” to 15” long.  I believe that in most case the bullet should pass through the body providing a secondary exit hole for blood and debris.  This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow.  Those animals that don’t go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill.  Using a bullet matching this description will normally result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal any distance after the shot.

For me the Lehigh design has fulfilled this definition.

Hope some of this makes sense!

mike
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Offline theleo

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2015, 11:26:46 AM »

It is a .458x305 grain bullet built for the 45-70 rifle.  It is a long bullet, but it will stabilize in a 1-28 twist if you shoot it with authority.  I shoot it with 110 grains of T7-3f powder to get the velocity up. ALSO this is a bullet built for a 45-70 so it is slightly less in diameter than a normal ML bullet - instead of using a .458 x 50 sabot I use a MMP HPH-24 sabot (a .452x50 sabot) - this sabot will grip the bore and the bullet tighter insuring no slippage of the bullet in the sabot and no slippage by the sabot in the bore.

The bullet works very well on the thicker skinned elk and equally well on a thin skinned 4x4 Whitetail buck. One day I was frustrated elk hunter when this basketball sized Whitetail rack appeared on the scene about 60 yards out.  Frustration took over and I shot the deer.

Anyway it is a great bullet also.

In my mind the 275gr. Bloodline is the best all around bullet of the bunch... but I will hang on the 305's


I enjoy reading your posts Sabotloader but I'm always curious about your bullet choices. I'm knew to muzzle loading so I'm just asking because I'm learning, but why not use soft lead bullets meant for hunting with 45-70's or 454 cassull's. Seems you could get a heavier bullet to stabilize as the density is higher than that of mono bullets of one design or another? I admit I get to cheat a little bit because I cast and can play with different alloys and choose flat, cup, or hollow points but just curious what I'd be giving up performance wise?

Really and right down to it - many bullets will work very well on elk if the hunter does his or hers part and understands the performance limitations of the bullet they choose to use.

Your choice to use or build your own lead bullets is great for you and many others.  In fact I use a .503x460 MT NEx Bull Shop here doing our ML season because by rule that is what I have to use. But during rifle season I would use what I feel is a much faster quickly acting bullet.

For me - the Lehigh or Lehigh/Bloodlines offer a wider range of 'Terminal Performance' than most any other bullet. I have less variables that I need to worry about and know that I will get a clean quick harvest even if I am off target 3-4" inches.  At my age I really need a bullet but that will provide a max destruction of internal organs yet provide great penetration from 10 yards to 200 yards.  It is important to me that the bullet induce enough traumatic shock to the animal that it overrides the animals 'flight response ' system.  Of course I can not guarantee that every time but I know from many years of use it will do it a majority of the time.

A few years ago someone asked me for my definition of a 'great' hunting bullet - I plagiarized most of this but this is my definition...

The Hunting bullet should be the most lethal big game hunting bullet available.   The bullet design should allow the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3”, through bone or tissue, before it starts to expand the petals.  After the bullet starts to expand or shed it petals it should adversely affect all the surrounding internal organs.  The combination between the expansion of the bullet and/or release of the petals and the creation of hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that can be 13” to 15” long.  I believe that in most case the bullet should pass through the body providing a secondary exit hole for blood and debris.  This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow.  Those animals that don’t go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill.  Using a bullet matching this description will normally result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal any distance after the shot.

For me the Lehigh design has fulfilled this definition.

Hope some of this makes sense!

mike
Yep, it does. Lots of damage quick but still maintain a minimum of full caliber wound channel for straight line penitration through the animal. Same concept as pushing a partition  fast enough to blow the nose off in cartridge rounds? Just used to mono bullets in modern guns sometimes not having the velocity to expand reliably. Like I said, I'm new to muzzle loaders but I appreciate the clarification as to why you choose them.

Offline Westside88

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2015, 09:36:49 PM »
My bighorn stainless sitting in the Boyd's stock

That's an awesome looking rifle

Offline usmc74

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2015, 04:23:51 AM »
My hunting load is 110 gr 777 3F, and a Barnes TMZ 290.  Holds a pretty good group at 200 yards.  Just target practicing, I shoot the 300 gr SST (cheaper).

Usually carry 3 reloaders ready to go when hunting.  Practice your fast reloading.  First time I shot at anything, I was all fumbles trying to get reloaded.

Practice, and get good groups, then practice shooting from different positions, and then practice like you hunt (pack, camo, binoculars, etc).  Its amazing what you learn will get in the way of shooting when you are all decked out.

Offline Westside88

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2015, 09:48:39 AM »
Thanks for the tips, I've given it a cleaning and verified it's going to fire the caps. Now I'm headed out today to shoot it a bit. Im going to start with triple seven, #11 caps and 300 grain bloodlines. I'm just getting the hang of what accessories I'm going to need( so far I already know I need a starter and some breach plug grease)  I also need to figure out the cleaning, such as use of gun oil, or not.  It sounds like maybe for storage then clean the barrel well prior to use, as well as the breach plug and nipple. I hear about swabbing between shots. It that every time or every couple? It sure has been nice getting advice from everyone while getting started.

Offline Westside88

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2015, 09:29:44 AM »
I have the bighorn with thumb hole and love it. If anyone hears of sportsmans or anywhere online I can buy one when there's a good sale let me know cause I need another for my girlfriend.
Sportsmans warehouse has had the thumb hole Bighorn Western recently for $379
That seems to be about the cheapest I've seen them.

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2015, 12:24:30 AM »
I have the bighorn with thumb hole and love it. If anyone hears of sportsmans or anywhere online I can buy one when there's a good sale let me know cause I need another for my girlfriend.
Sportsmans warehouse has had the thumb hole Bighorn Western recently for $379
That seems to be about the cheapest I've seen them.

Sportsman's is having a Labor Day sale on internet purchases & you could save $50 more. (Sale ends 9/7). (You'll want to order the western model.)

http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/Knight-Bighorn-.50Cal-Western-Muzzleloader-Camo-Stainless/productDetail/Muzzleloaders/prod999901363162/cat100008

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2015, 08:38:49 AM »
Thanks guys I just saw you guys posted that but I did see the sale sportsmans had and picked one up!

Offline Brushbuster

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2015, 09:04:32 AM »
Congrats.  :tup: My brother & I bought Bighorns a couple months ago. He stayed with the sights on the gun & I switched over to the Williams peep with a hood on the front. We're shooting similar groups & accuracy was great right out of the box. Good luck with your new purchases.

Offline Westside88

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2015, 07:04:49 PM »
Bump for WAnoob

Offline WAnoob

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Re: Planning to buy a Knight this week Bighorn vs Disc Extreme thoughts?
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2015, 07:39:36 PM »
Bump for WAnoob

Appreciate it, think I'll delete my post now haha. :tup:
AK 907

 


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