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Author Topic: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?  (Read 17977 times)

Offline ghosthunter

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Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« on: October 26, 2016, 11:31:33 AM »
Here is the deal.

While in Twisp area this year a game agent stopped by our camp to check us. Three of us were Hunter Ed Instructors so we had a nice 30 minute conversation with him.

The guy above us had accidently shot a 1x2 and self reported himself to the game agent.

In the agents truck were seven illegal buck heads, spikes,2ts.etc.
In the next two days he got two more I know of.

This was one agent.

How many people are just shooting and counting points later?
How many shoot and walk away?

Maybe we should shoot the 2pt and smaller and permit draw for bigger bucks?

I think this is having a impact on mule deer in the Twisp ,Winthrop area.

What ya think?
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Offline LDennis24

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2016, 11:49:55 AM »
I think they just need to allow more 2-point permit's in area's where there are a lot of 2-point bucks seen. For example unit 139. At my brothers yesterday we saw 8 different 2 points, with a couple of them being VERY big 2 points that we studied for 15 mins to put a 3rd point on but couldn't find it. We ended up going home empty handed after seeing plenty of deer and nothing legal to shoot. As for what your talking about with people shooting them then claiming it was a mistake, they need to pay better attention to their target before pulling the trigger. :dunno:

Offline Jolten

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2016, 11:51:31 AM »
I'm all 4 the 2 pt or smaller rule. I passed on several with eye guards I wasn't 100% sure met the 1 inch min
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Offline bobcat

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2016, 11:54:21 AM »
Mule deer should be by permit only to limit the hunting pressure, and any buck should be legal. IMO

Offline tonymiller7

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2016, 11:56:26 AM »
There is an awful lot of GIANT 2 points in 101 as well.  They are out competing 3 and 4 points for the does and breeding more large 2 points.  Maybe open it up to 2 point or better for archery and muzzle loader, or just do a drawing.  I also think that a lot of people can't tell their deer species apart and think they are shooting whitetails.  Just my  :twocents:
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Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2016, 11:56:59 AM »
Well compared to what the deer population used to be in the Methow its a disgrace. Give out doe and special permits to every group and you see the destruction of the herd. Then throw in a biologist that doesn't know diddly squat and lets see what the future holds!! When you then throw in illegal animal shooting and poaching what's left a bunch of motherless yearlings running around to feed the wolves.

Offline Special T

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2016, 11:59:03 AM »
While coyote hunting in the Basin I have seen some very impressive 2 points. Part of the problem has been the selective breeding due to 3 point getting whacked easily. Escapement I belive is the reason for the rule but because so many areas have been under the rule for some time it makes producing 3 points less likely imo.
I'm not sure mule deer can/should be managed in the same way it has been for years.
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Offline ghosthunter

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2016, 12:01:09 PM »
I think a draw only for Mule deer would be a up hill battle. Twisp and Winthrop would fight it. I would be a huge economic threat to those areas.

I also think it could kill hunting entirely. Many hunt because they are in a group and they enjoy the group. Permit only would kill the hunting camp traditions. And many hunters would just give it up rather than hunt alone.
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Offline Special T

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2016, 12:03:57 PM »
I think a draw only for Mule deer would be a up hill battle. Twisp and Winthrop would fight it. I would be a huge economic threat to those areas.
There in lies the rub. Economic activity vs big horned deer potential.
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Offline boneaddict

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2016, 12:05:32 PM »
I think it's slop hunting, and is despicable, but NOT what is hurting the deer population in the Methow.   If there wasn't three point or better, the herd would be done!  Stick a fork in it. Done!    It's the only thing keeping a few deer alive.   A year like this year with essentially most of the upper age bucks harvested, and nothing but younger deer, and an over abundance of hunters.   There would be nothing to rebuild
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Offline LDennis24

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2016, 12:05:44 PM »
Maybe find the 10yr average for hunters in the Twisp and Winthrop area and make it permit only with as many tags as the average given out. :dunno: Then do the same for other area's as well. Then you don't get a sudden increase in hunter's to any one area and the populations will still thrive and if not reduce the number of permit's. Kind of like Idaho's tag's where you can choose a whitetail only tag and you get a few more days to hunt.

Offline LDennis24

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2016, 12:08:30 PM »
I guess the best answer is to get someone in the WDFW that actually knows how to manage it and make changes that are for the better.

Offline Buckblaster

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2016, 12:11:08 PM »
I think they just need to add a few permit only trophy units like they have done with the Desert Unit.  That might satisfy both sides of this conversation.
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Offline tonymiller7

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2016, 12:14:01 PM »
I think it's slop hunting, and is despicable,

 :yeah:

If there is any doubt don't pull the trigger, I've had more than a couple 3+ points get away from me while trying to for sure put on the 3rd point while muzzleloader hunting.  By the time I found the 3rd point, lowered my binos, and raised my rifle they took off.  They know when you find that point, they milled around in front of me for minutes but as soon as you find that 3rd point they're outta there!  Better safe than sorry!  It's not worth the ticket and wasting an animal.
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Offline snowshoes22

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2016, 12:15:23 PM »
Maybe the super 2 point tag should bounce around each year to other units instead of staying in Harrington and Roosevelt. Even then the purpose is to harvest older age class bucks not just the first dink 2 point a guy comes across. I don't think most hunters have the maturity to only shoot mature bucks.
 
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Offline tonymiller7

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2016, 12:17:33 PM »
I like that idea, to have a permit draw to allow someone to shoot a 2 pt.   :tup:
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Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2016, 12:21:20 PM »
I like that idea, to have a permit draw to allow someone to shoot a 2 pt.   :tup:

And the two point should be regulated to a min size, just don't know how that could be done.

I chased one this year that I just couldn't put a third point on due to light conditions, and the deer finally bugging out. Man he was tall.
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Offline JODakota

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2016, 12:22:37 PM »
Mule deer should be by permit only to limit the hunting pressure, and any buck should be legal. IMO

I would support this as long as they have out a reasonable number of permits and by that I mean you should be able to have a buck tag every few years.
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Offline tonymiller7

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2016, 12:23:00 PM »
We saw some this year that were 2x2s on a 4x4 frame!  They were huge. 
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Offline Katmai Guy

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2016, 12:25:09 PM »
Shoot spikes general season and permit only for any branched antlered buck.  Will cut down on pressure because nobody wants to hunt for spikes but kids, right?  and you could control how many mature bucks were killed each year.  Works for elk, not sure if it would work for deer.
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Offline superdown

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2016, 12:26:57 PM »
From what I've seen this year and the previous 20 in the chesaw to curlew area is lot's of really small mule deer bucks with doe. The most recent trip over for modern season this year was a tall spike and two doe and then two different 1x2 bucks with two doe respectively and then another 1x2 muley by itself out by dry gulch.During muzzy season my father missed a 83 yard shot on what could only described as the worlds smallest legal 3pt and then this spring while over at my property to do some maintenance a few miles from camp was bachelor group of five two point bucks that weren't going to grow anymore points. I agree with something along the lines of what ghosthunter was taking about with shooting the 2pt and smaller deer and going to permit for 3pt and better.I was fishing beaver lake at the boat launch midday between hunts and there was a 2x2 muley buck someone had given a texas heart shot dead next to the boat launch.

Offline go4steelhd

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2016, 12:27:22 PM »
For me I am not at all for making everyone draw a tag. It  is in effect in Oregon  and now  my dad who lives there is able to draw a tag every three years. And this is by no means a great area to hunt.  The deer herds here are in good shape compared to other states I hunt. The difference is age class. In other state I see less deer but you have a chance of seeing big bucks. I feel if we get rid of the three point rule the deer we have will be lost. We have lots and lots of hunters and small public areas to hunt compared to other states. Mule deer are facing lots. Loss of habitat, increased hunting pressure, bows shooting 75 yards, rifles 750+, lots of poaching. The wdfw has there hands tied. Some people want to trophy hunt, most want to hunt every year, then they try to split hunters up with the three weapons. Which this worked  ok until they came up with the multi season tags. I would love to see more and bigger deer, but I think lots has changed since the herds started shrinking.

I'm at a loss for  ideas that would actually help deer numbers, and  not  cause people to give up hunting.

Offline X-Force

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2016, 12:32:23 PM »
I think it's slop hunting, and is despicable, but NOT what is hurting the deer population in the Methow. 
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Offline tonymiller7

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2016, 12:32:45 PM »
Shoot spikes general season and permit only for any branched antlered buck.  Will cut down on pressure because nobody wants to hunt for spikes but kids, right?  and you could control how many mature bucks were killed each year.  Works for elk, not sure if it would work for deer.

I know a lot of adults who meat hunt who would drop a spike mulie at the drop of a hat!  Opening morning would sound like a war if it were spike only.
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Offline mburrows

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2016, 12:36:26 PM »
Mule deer should be by permit only to limit the hunting pressure, and any buck should be legal. IMO

I like this even though i love hunting them every year. I think it would really help them and make the hunting great. There would probably still be areas you could draw every year.

 

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