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Author Topic: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?  (Read 34741 times)

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2016, 02:07:44 PM »
Mule deer should be by permit only to limit the hunting pressure, and any buck should be legal. IMO

I would support this as long as they have out a reasonable number of permits and by that I mean you should be able to have a buck tag every few years.

I'd say there should be enough tags issued so that people draw at least every other year, on average.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,86231.msg1080089.html#msg1080089  ;)



 
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2016, 02:10:47 PM »
Maybe the super 2 point tag should bounce around each year to other units instead of staying in Harrington and Roosevelt. Even then the purpose is to harvest older age class bucks not just the first dink 2 point a guy comes across. I don't think most hunters have the maturity to only shoot mature bucks.

Throw it in the "quality" deer category, Nov. 1-30 season, create a Washington State Record category for 2 points, I seriously doubt you will see anyone apply for it just to shoot a forkin horn.

 
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Offline rickomatic

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2016, 03:35:24 PM »
We saw some this year that were 2x2s on a 4x4 frame!  They were huge.

My son shot a bruiser 2x3 Monday afternoon way up high on Ramsey. He was all rutted out, and bigger than some of the 4 points I saw taken in the area last week.
When I say 2x3, I mean barely 3. He was sure when he took the shot, but got a bit of a scare when he walked up on it, even though it was a huge body.
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Offline Gringo31

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2016, 03:58:26 PM »
There is one particular area I know that is clearly turning into a large 2pt buck area.  There are 3 that are 24" not legal bucks.  Over time one will grow a crab claw and get killed but I'd love to see a few of them removed.

I have no sympathy for someone paying the price for "guessing" that they were legal.   :bash:
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Offline huntandjeep

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2016, 04:06:48 PM »
I like that idea, to have a permit draw to allow someone to shoot a 2 pt.   :tup:
:yeah: I watched a BIG 2? Sunday for 25+ minutes and couldn't tell if one antler tip was  bladed or a small crab claw. Buddy watched him the day before for over an hour with the same conclusion.
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Offline nwwanderer

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2016, 04:17:36 PM »
The department will tell you it has improved buck/doe ratio.  Granted.  On the other hand, single trait selection always has genetic consequences.  Tho the heritability of point number is low it does have an effect over time.  If you want to limit buck kill pick another criteria that increases the survival of genetic superior bucks.  Bucks with the most potential to settle does usually have bigger, wider, and pointier(?) antlers.  Shoot those three points as first antler bucks, most of the take is young, and you limit breeding success and potential.

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2016, 04:18:49 PM »
I think it's slop hunting, and is despicable, but NOT what is hurting the deer population in the Methow.   If there wasn't three point or better, the herd would be done!  Stick a fork in it. Done!    It's the only thing keeping a few deer alive.   A year like this year with essentially most of the upper age bucks harvested, and nothing but younger deer, and an over abundance of hunters.   There would be nothing to rebuild
  :yeah:  I have come to the conclusion that what many consider a "big" 2 is just a young buck with a 18-20" frame.  Give him a year and he will blossom into something usually.  Not saying all but the vast majority of the deer killed on the 2pt only permits (designed to cull old mature 2x2 deer) are just 1.5 yo deer.  Antler width and size do not equat to age  :twocents:
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2016, 04:19:17 PM »
I like that idea, to have a permit draw to allow someone to shoot a 2 pt.   :tup:
:yeah: I watched a BIG 2? Sunday for 25+ minutes and couldn't tell if one antler tip was  bladed or a small crab claw. Buddy watched him the day before for over an hour with the same conclusion.

 Sounds like you guys could use a quality spotter. ;)
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2016, 04:25:02 PM »
I think it's slop hunting, and is despicable, but NOT what is hurting the deer population in the Methow.   If there wasn't three point or better, the herd would be done!  Stick a fork in it. Done!    It's the only thing keeping a few deer alive.   A year like this year with essentially most of the upper age bucks harvested, and nothing but younger deer, and an over abundance of hunters.   There would be nothing to rebuild
  :yeah:  I have come to the conclusion that what many consider a "big" 2 is just a young buck with a 18-20" frame.  Give him a year and he will blossom into something usually.  Not saying all but the vast majority of the deer killed on the 2pt only permits (designed to cull old mature 2x2 deer) are just 1.5 yo deer.  Antler width and size do not equat to age  :twocents:

 ;)
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Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2016, 04:33:10 PM »
Didn't say there weren't plenty out there.  That is obviously a mature deer.  Guess my point is eliminating the 3pt restriction but keeping a LONG general season that we have would kill off a very large portion of 1.5-2.5 yo deer
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Offline Buckmark

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Offline tgomez

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2016, 04:40:26 PM »
This happens too much, people shooting mule deer and just checking for points after. I walked up on another dead buck that was shot on opening day that wasn't a 3pt. I called the game department when I found it on 10-16-2016. I don't think a 3pt min hurts the mule deer, but they could open up the mulie does or give more permits. The buck to doe ratio where I hunt is wayyyyy off!
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Offline JBar

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2016, 05:06:05 PM »
This is a good read on the subject  :twocents:

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Habitat/Mule%20Deer%20Initiative/MULEDEER_ANTLERPOINTREGS_REVIE0006790.pdf

I just read through real quick but it seems WA is the only one that concluded the APR's work? Also it seems in the long term the APR's do not work or even make things worse but what if they rotated the APR's from 3 pt min for a year to 2pt only for 2 years? :dunno: I'm not a biologist so I'm just throwing this out there.
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Offline bobcat

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2016, 05:08:21 PM »
The WDFW biologists actually wanted to do away with the 3 point minimum several years ago, and it was in the recommendations when the 3 year plan was up for renewal, but it got voted down due to popular opinion.

Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: Is 3 pt RULE HURTING MULE DEER POPULATIONS?
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2016, 05:27:16 PM »
Maybe the super 2 point tag should bounce around each year to other units instead of staying in Harrington and Roosevelt. Even then the purpose is to harvest older age class bucks not just the first dink 2 point a guy comes across. I don't think most hunters have the maturity to only shoot mature bucks.

Throw it in the "quality" deer category, Nov. 1-30 season, create a Washington State Record category for 2 points, I seriously doubt you will see anyone apply for it just to shoot a forkin horn.

I would put in for it, I live those big two points.  :mgun:
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