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Author Topic: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?  (Read 12521 times)

Online buglebuster

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2016, 10:16:23 AM »
Even on a nice 6pt shed.....
Thankfully, that's not the bull that Bobcat is asking about.
Why? Its proving the 1st eyeguard even on a mature bull is not 4in from the base
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Offline Lefthook

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2016, 10:21:10 AM »
You're grasping at straws lefthook. 100% legal bull. Pass if you want, no way I would though

I would say letting an animal live is about as far away from grasping at straws as there is.

With your logic, every animal I have passed on was a straw game.

My decision to kill something I am comfortable with has to do with ethics and my personal approach to hunting. I'll let it walk, someone else can kill it.

So now it's ethics. That's good because your first post on the subject was factually incorrect.

If it's legal, kill it.

I unfortunately can not make a measurement in the field with in fractions of an inch so I believe it is not a legal kill, using the eyes and judgement which I have been given. I have read posts all over this forum (not this thread) calling 3x3 elk "spikes" because they, for some reason, don't believe eye guards count as points.

My ethical statement is because that bull is nowhere near the spirit of spike only. There is no point in me killing a bull that no way resembles a spike except for an eye guard being possibly 4 inches or so from the base of his right beam and the only way to have a definite answer is to kill it and measure it. I wonder how many "hunters" on here would shoot it, measure the distance from the base and find out it is not legal then walk away from it. Or kill it, finding out later it is not a legal kill and then try to sneak it out of the woods. The two previous statements I find unethical.

Because I wouldn't harvest the animal does not mean that others can't.

Fire at will.

Bob must not think it's legal or there would be a picture of it dead and tagged posted here. If that bull has been harvested and not posted here there could be an issue with it once a measurement was made. We'll see if that bull, dead, get's posted.

So you are saying if Bobcat doesn't post pictures then he's a possible poacher?

You're kidding right?

Of course I'm kidding. I don't know if he even saw this bull on the hoof or posted a pic to spark a convo. Just a lame little joke.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2016, 10:27:15 AM »
Even on a nice 6pt shed.....
Thankfully, that's not the bull that Bobcat is asking about.

I think both browtines fit into legal zone on those.....

Offline bobcat

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2016, 10:30:42 AM »
I'm not hunting this bull but a friend is. He sent me the picture last night. It's in one of the Region 3 units, which is a spike only unit. Like I said he has recent pictures of the bull as well, so he knows it's still alive and still in the area that he's hunting. I think this may be his last day to hunt elk for the year so I'm hoping he has some luck finding it today. I haven't heard from him yet but I'm sure I will if he gets a shot at it.

Offline dscubame

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2016, 10:55:54 AM »
You're grasping at straws lefthook. 100% legal bull. Pass if you want, no way I would though

I would say letting an animal live is about as far away from grasping at straws as there is.

With your logic, every animal I have passed on was a straw game.

My decision to kill something I am comfortable with has to do with ethics and my personal approach to hunting. I'll let it walk, someone else can kill it.

So now it's ethics. That's good because your first post on the subject was factually incorrect.

If it's legal, kill it.

I unfortunately can not make a measurement in the field with in fractions of an inch so I believe it is not a legal kill, using the eyes and judgement which I have been given. I have read posts all over this forum (not this thread) calling 3x3 elk "spikes" because they, for some reason, don't believe eye guards count as points.

My ethical statement is because that bull is nowhere near the spirit of spike only. There is no point in me killing a bull that no way resembles a spike except for an eye guard being possibly 4 inches or so from the base of his right beam and the only way to have a definite answer is to kill it and measure it. I wonder how many "hunters" on here would shoot it, measure the distance from the base and find out it is not legal then walk away from it. Or kill it, finding out later it is not a legal kill and then try to sneak it out of the woods. The two previous statements I find unethical.

Because I wouldn't harvest the animal does not mean that others can't.

Fire at will.

Bob must not think it's legal or there would be a picture of it dead and tagged posted here. If that bull has been harvested and not posted here there could be an issue with it once a measurement was made. We'll see if that bull, dead, get's posted.

So you are saying if Bobcat doesn't post pictures then he's a possible poacher?

You're kidding right?


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Offline dscubame

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2016, 11:56:13 AM »
Buglebuster nailed it.  I don't ever recall seeing a brow tine not under 4.  Anyone have a pic of one over 4?
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Offline Bob33

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2016, 12:02:01 PM »
I'll start a GoFundMe account for Bobcat's defense
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2016, 12:07:09 PM »
I'll start a GoFundMe account for Bobcat's defense

Offline bobcat

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2016, 12:26:29 PM »
I'll start a GoFundMe account for Bobcat's defense

Thanks Bob33. If you don't see me online for a while you know why.   :yike:

Offline Bob33

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2016, 12:28:00 PM »
I'll start a GoFundMe account for Bobcat's defense

Thanks Bob33. If you don't see me online for a while you know why.   :yike:
I hear there's a good defense lawyer in Kittitas.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2016, 12:31:10 PM »
I'll start a GoFundMe account for Bobcat's defense

Thanks Bob33. If you don't see me online for a while you know why.   :yike:
Just give WDFW a call first, you'll be fine.

Offline Lefthook

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2016, 01:10:32 PM »
You're grasping at straws lefthook. 100% legal bull. Pass if you want, no way I would though

I would say letting an animal live is about as far away from grasping at straws as there is.

With your logic, every animal I have passed on was a straw game.

My decision to kill something I am comfortable with has to do with ethics and my personal approach to hunting. I'll let it walk, someone else can kill it.

So now it's ethics. That's good because your first post on the subject was factually incorrect.

If it's legal, kill it.

I unfortunately can not make a measurement in the field with in fractions of an inch so I believe it is not a legal kill, using the eyes and judgement which I have been given. I have read posts all over this forum (not this thread) calling 3x3 elk "spikes" because they, for some reason, don't believe eye guards count as points.

My ethical statement is because that bull is nowhere near the spirit of spike only. There is no point in me killing a bull that no way resembles a spike except for an eye guard being possibly 4 inches or so from the base of his right beam and the only way to have a definite answer is to kill it and measure it. I wonder how many "hunters" on here would shoot it, measure the distance from the base and find out it is not legal then walk away from it. Or kill it, finding out later it is not a legal kill and then try to sneak it out of the woods. The two previous statements I find unethical.

Because I wouldn't harvest the animal does not mean that others can't.

Fire at will.

Bob must not think it's legal or there would be a picture of it dead and tagged posted here. If that bull has been harvested and not posted here there could be an issue with it once a measurement was made. We'll see if that bull, dead, get's posted.

So you are saying if Bobcat doesn't post pictures then he's a possible poacher?

You're kidding right?


 :yike: :yike: :yike:


I thought it was an obvious joke. I guess I had better tread lightly around here.

Offline saylean

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2016, 01:11:05 PM »
That would be a sweet spike!
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Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2016, 01:11:28 PM »
That 4 inch measurement regulation has always seemed so iffy. I would let it walk, how accurate could a person be when trying to measure something like that, on the fly at different angles and distances. Nock that bull down and wind up being 1/2 an inch off would be a good possibility  and a bad deal. Regardless, that bull is not even close to the spirit of what a spike only hunt consists of.

I would never judge a hunter who passed on an animal for any reason. If you aren't comfortable, don't take the shot.

But as far as the spirit of the law, it's a legal animal so I'd never judge someone who shot it either. Antler restrictions are put in place to protect a portion of the bulls and bucks in a herd. Taking one animal that doesn't fit the mold of what's expected does not harm that protection.  There is a reason that only one antler has to qualify. Sometimes under hunting conditions, you don't see both antlers.  I'd say whoever harvested this bull would have a unique trophy and they'd be perfectly legal.

I've been involved with this argument on an Alaskan hunting site I belong to, but it was over moose.  Up there, they have a spike/fork regulation for moose in some units. Some people contend that any bull that is palmated isn't legal under a spike/fork rule, even some wildlife troopers have made that mitake and written people up because they shot a bull that was palmated, but didn't have any extra points off the palmation. Kind of club looking antlers. But the regulations specifically do not mention palmation, only points. So these cases have all been thrown out.  Some on the forum have even suggested that it violated ethics or the spirit of the law, but the State biologists who set the seasons have explained that taking an occasional bull that doesn't fit the norm doesn't hurt a thing as far as managing the herd.

On the flip side, there have been hunters up there who have taken animals that fit the spirit of the law, but were illegal due to sticker points one inch or longer off the base of the antlers. The antlers were either a spike or fork horn but had hard to see sticker points. Hard to see those little stickers at 200-400 yards. They have changed the rule a bit to help people in that situation though.

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Offline Lefthook

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2016, 01:11:49 PM »
.

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2016, 01:13:47 PM »

Offline Dan-o

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2016, 01:27:43 PM »
.

Under what possible logic would this bull be legal in a spike only unit?

Which side are you thinking of?
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Offline snake

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2016, 01:35:55 PM »
Lefty? would that bull be legal in a 3 pt unit? or does the brow tine not count as a point since it originates less than 4 inches from skull??

Offline JDHasty

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2016, 01:41:50 PM »
That's a legal spike. 

Offline Lefthook

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2016, 01:42:54 PM »
.

Under what possible logic would this bull be legal in a spike only unit?

Which side are you thinking of?

Kids, don't be so silly. A 5x5 was used as an example in this thread. Can you read FIVE by FIVE? What on earth would a 5x5 have to do with a spike thread?

I don't want to go all biologist on you but........a mature bull has a well established growth pattern. The little rag horns are the Bulls most likely to have horns sticking out anywhere and everywhere. The two little rag horns are a much better example of what you will find when a questionable spike comes up, not that 5x5.

I will let you guys go back to fantasy land. Cheers!

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2016, 01:43:32 PM »
Boom if that last bull is in a 3 point or better unit!

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2016, 01:49:10 PM »
.

Under what possible logic would this bull be legal in a spike only unit?

Which side are you thinking of?

Kids, don't be so silly. A 5x5 was used as an example in this thread. Can you read FIVE by FIVE? What on earth would a 5x5 have to do with a spike thread?

I don't want to go all biologist on you but........a mature bull has a well established growth pattern. The little rag horns are the Bulls most likely to have horns sticking out anywhere and everywhere. The two little rag horns are a much better example of what you will find when a questionable spike comes up, not that 5x5.

I will let you guys go back to fantasy land. Cheers!
I posted the 5x5 just to show an eye guard even on a mature bull isn't 4inches from the base, therefore proving the point that bull the OP posted about is legal. Nowhere did I say my 5x5 was legal in a spike unit lol.
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Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2016, 01:54:07 PM »
What kinda deer is that second pic of left hook?
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Offline Lefthook

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2016, 01:57:53 PM »
.

Under what possible logic would this bull be legal in a spike only unit?

Which side are you thinking of?

Kids, don't be so silly. A 5x5 was used as an example in this thread. Can you read FIVE by FIVE? What on earth would a 5x5 have to do with a spike thread?

I don't want to go all biologist on you but........a mature bull has a well established growth pattern. The little rag horns are the Bulls most likely to have horns sticking out anywhere and everywhere. The two little rag horns are a much better example of what you will find when a questionable spike comes up, not that 5x5.

I will let you guys go back to fantasy land. Cheers!
I posted the 5x5 just to show an eye guard even on a mature bull isn't 4inches from the base, therefore proving the point that bull the OP posted about is legal. Nowhere did I say my 5x5 was legal in a spike unit lol.

I understand that buglebuster, that's cool. I was just surprised nobody commented on "why is a 5x5 in this thread" then with two rag horns they say something. If a person spends a lot of time elk hunting they will see young bulls with every conceivable set of points, tines, differing racks .... on and on. The chances of seeing a set of eye gaurds anywhere up and down a main beam is on a rag horn, hence the name.

Offline Lefthook

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Re: Is this bull legal in a spike only unit?
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2016, 02:01:34 PM »
What kinda deer is that second pic of left hook?

I don't have the exact sub-species in front of me. Just wanted to show two racks that were closely related in shape with different dimensions on brow tine/eye gaurd placement.

 

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