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Author Topic: Caging Coyotes  (Read 4913 times)

Offline Bigbadwolfwdc

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Caging Coyotes
« on: December 22, 2016, 08:31:14 PM »
Been working a method to cage trap coyotes. I'm not planning on putting any info out on this until maybe some time next year...hopefully. My question is to everyone if I can keep the catch rate around 45% would it be worth the time. The sets I have been working on take a moment to set up so this would be time consuming if you had a few to place. Plus I'm looking into a small modification for the cage trap I'm using that should greatly help. 

Thanks Mike

Offline JODakota

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2016, 10:30:51 PM »
Good luck, if I remember correctly state trappers in the Midwest tried this and average set was about 1000 hours per catch.
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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2016, 11:10:25 PM »
If you can do a 45% catch rate, well  :bow: :bow: :bow: :whoo:
Bruce Vandervort

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2016, 06:06:09 AM »
If you can do a 45% catch rate, well  :bow: :bow: :bow: :whoo:

 :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
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Offline jasnt

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2016, 06:40:00 AM »
:yeah: even 25%
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Offline Bigbadwolfwdc

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2016, 11:31:14 AM »
45% Is high but why not swing for the fence.  I figure if I can get into high coyote population area and catch 1 a day that would be a good step forward.

Offline JODakota

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2016, 11:34:51 AM »
45% Is high but why not swing for the fence.  I figure if I can get into high coyote population area and catch 1 a day that would be a good step forward.

How many have you caught in cages?
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Offline Bigbadwolfwdc

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2016, 11:46:51 AM »
Well Im from Florida and never really targeted them. Spent most of my time hog trappin. But had times where I did catch a coyote at least once to twice a week. I do realize that coyotes are larger here and do have more food. So we will see what happens as I put some time into this over the next year or two. I have had some success with set ups doing wco work this last year and caught 3. If after a year or two nothing worth wild Ill put it out there tried but failed.

Offline 3nails

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2016, 11:48:51 AM »
45% Is high but why not swing for the fence.  I figure if I can get into high coyote population area and catch 1 a day that would be a good step forward.
If you EVER get to a point where you can catch one a WEEK you will become filthy rich selling your techniques! Good luck!
"The word of God is like a lion. You don't have to defend a lion. All you have to do is let the lion loose, and the lion will defend itself."
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Offline JODakota

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2016, 11:54:06 AM »
Well Im from Florida and never really targeted them. Spent most of my time hog trappin. But had times where I did catch a coyote at least once to twice a week. I do realize that coyotes are larger here and do have more food. So we will see what happens as I put some time into this over the next year or two. I have had some success with set ups doing wco work this last year and caught 3. If after a year or two nothing worth wild Ill put it out there tried but failed.

Awesome man! Best of luck to you!
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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2016, 11:59:36 AM »
I have only trapped a little when I was younger. I know they can be very hard to cage. I have seen a few end up in cage traps and always thought it would be cool if someone could get it down even though I know it has been tried many time. Best of luck to you and hopefully some day I'll be running a few of your traps.
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Offline kirkdekalb

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Caging Coyotes
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2017, 02:32:50 PM »
Has there been any new developments in trap design or technique you may be aware of for coyotes. I haven't seen any in the past 6 or 8 months on the internet.

Offline Skunk Trapper

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2017, 05:06:23 PM »
Has there been any new developments in trap design or technique you may be aware of for coyotes. I haven't seen any in the past 6 or 8 months on the internet.

Kirk,

How many coyotes have you got in cages in the past year?

Offline Bigbadwolfwdc

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2017, 06:32:30 PM »
I have a couple methods that have given me results but nothing set in stone.

Offline kirkdekalb

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2017, 07:52:39 PM »
I wasn,t able to test as I needed. I am not a coyote trapper. I tested before season and caught over 20 animals in 24 nights. None were coyotes. I tested during season and only caught bobcat and red fox, coon, possum, skunk. Saw no coyote sign in the short time I tested on camera or near the trap. I don,t have time to trap much anymore nor the physical ability to do what I did 10 years ago.

My customers caught quite a few from what I was told. The ones most successful were using live bait The problem here was when I told the farmer I set a trap, everybody and his brother had to drive by and look, in areas of low prior human activity.

The pen raised quail used as bait would call the wild quail to the trap and they would sit on the trap. When the wild quail fly off the predator sees the bait quail and go in. Some times catching 4 coon at one time. Can,t catch the target animal if the door is down.

Several customers have said they caught more animals than trap nights the first 30 days they set the traps. They said they would take the animal out that morning and there would be another catch in the trap if they happened to check that afternoon.

I don,t recommend spending the money for the large traps unless the traps are to be left out and observed from a distance for coyote and you are trying to catch the other predators.

To do a good test you need at least 20 traps out. I don,t have the time or the money, even the back ground for coyotes. It would take a free two months in January- Feb and $20,000 dollars in operating money and equipment.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 08:11:15 PM by kirkdekalb »

Offline kirkdekalb

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2017, 08:07:02 PM »
I hear of guys building and testing traps but never see them to know how the trap is designed and how the trigger and doors work.

 Just expensive to build the larger traps.

Plan to build a new model when I get a chance. 48 inches long, 20 inches wide, and 26" tall. Been wanting to make it before I forget it in my mind. A double doored  trap that can be set with both doors up or one door down.

Offline Bigbadwolfwdc

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2017, 08:10:10 PM »
Ive found double trigger system works well. A grab and pull along with a large pan that takes up the bottom of trap.

Offline kirkdekalb

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2017, 08:15:17 PM »
That is what I have had for years on some models I have made.

Offline Bigbadwolfwdc

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2017, 11:55:51 AM »
How did the models work for you? Also I have started to fine some tricks that seem to help with catching yotes.

Offline kirkdekalb

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2017, 02:59:27 PM »
Chris Sims said he has had luck with a very large trap where the coyote has to pull a carcus tied to a pull pin on the door. He showed me pictures of two he caught at the same time.

It seems the more open the better, but not always. The guy that caught the first one in a trap I made for them said it took almost a week before he went in. It was a gravity door model. They do seem to work the outside for a day or two with lure and bait before they go in. He was using fresh chicken. He told me he had caught a lot in cages.

They don,t like to stick there head in very far at first. Cameras seem to run them off. I have had several tell me they were not catching  coyotes. I told them to remove the camera and move the trap. They then caught within 10 days.

The one that catches the most has over a dozen traps and leaves them out all winter. An employee told me he set two traps last summer and caught 3 coyotes in two weeks.

Offline huntingfool7

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2017, 05:39:20 AM »
I just picked up one of Kirks #30 coyote/bobcat traps on the used market... That cage ROCKS!  Really solid platform, fast doors and an open appearance.  Really like the looks of that cage.  Wish Advanced Trap was closer. 



Offline kirkdekalb

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2017, 12:56:34 PM »
Quote
How did the models work for you? Also I have started to fine some tricks that seem to help with catching yotes

What advice would you give hunting fool on how best to set his trap for coyotes and other animals? Thanks

I no longer make or sell that trap. It is a double doored side door trap.

Offline Bigbadwolfwdc

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2017, 06:38:34 PM »
Place the trap on signs, this is one the key principles of trapping but people have a tendency to over think it when it comes to cage traps.  I like to use a cover scent on the cage trap as well (Not Lure), this helps the coyote feel more relaxed. Its not to cover up your scent, the coyote will know that you where there regardless. Keep in mind that the coyote knows the trap is not natural all the scent does is help it smell less like metal.

I would recommend working on the animals aggression and hunger. Coyotes will kill fox on site fox gland lure, fox urine and fox decoy will help anger the yote into jumping into the cage to attack. Food is another good way but from my experience the coyote will try to dig all around the trap before entering. A pull trigger added helps a lot. The yote will stick as little as himself in and try to pull the bait out. I like large dog traps with compressed doors .

The compressed door in my opinion works better than the guillotine door for K9s. Guillotine doors work great for cats because cats will jump forward most of the time when scared. K9s on the other hand will push back as far as possible. The compressed door will slap the coyote on the butt pushing him the other way. Stronger springs can be added to the door gain greater force on the door.
Securing the trap to the ground with tent stakes helps stabilize the trap as much as possible. Also make sure enough dirt is placed inside the trap so the animal cannot feel the metal mesh under its feet.  I would also recommending covering the trap as much as possible. If the trap must be placed in open area with signs. Bring some plywood that you spray down with cover scent and place on top of trap. This way dirt leaves and other things can be placed on top. 

Non target catches are going to happen thatís part of trapping. Some time you have catch the non targets before you have a chance at what you are after. This is true for cage trapping just like body grip trapping.

I have several methods that Im finding work ok in trapping coyotes. Im not going to talk about to much at the moment. As for cage trapping coyotes this would be a good start without being overly complicated. 

Offline kirkdekalb

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2017, 06:01:22 AM »
Quote
As for cage trapping coyotes this would be a good start without being overly complicated. 

Very good post.

I thoroughly agree with most but not all of your post.  I believe the way the trap is designed and bait-lure is presented has much bearing as to how much the cage needs to be covered. The trapper that has the most of a particular trap I know of and has caught numerous coyotes, does not cover the trap with debris. The trap has a guillotine door. The exception is the trap is a live bait designed trap.

I quit trying to make large traps for coyote with swing down doors after I made several. It was easier to get the animals to go in a guillotine door trap because I was able to make the trap shorter and appear more open. The guillotine doors closed faster. I found that by changing design and powering the door further down, the animal was forced in due to the continued pressure on the door. Making a shorter more open trap was now easier and more effective. I really didn,t realize to the extent I now have until last winter.

From feed back a pee post in the trap set as a side door along with gland lure and bait placed according to the way the trigger is to be used seems to be best. Gland lure seems to be most important.

I also found from feed back and experience a cover scent sprayed as you described helps. I learned that elk hunting, when a hunter in my party sprayed himself down with two bottles of cow urine. After the bull was coming he coated himself. He couldn't  hit the broad side of a barn because he was so nervous. The bull kept coming back and almost ran him over when he ran out of arrows. The bull was down wind.

[quote The yote will stick as little as himself in and try to pull the bait out. I like large dog traps with compressed doors .
][/quote]

That is why I have continued to design and use side door traps with extremely fast guillotine doors.  They don,t want to stick there head in more than 6 to 8" at first. That is why I have evolved over the years to address that.

Thank you so much. I hope this continues.

Offline Bigbadwolfwdc

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2017, 10:35:04 AM »
I agree with your designs. I purchased one of your raccoon size traps and love it. Very well built and have caught lots of critters with it. Its my belief that its not impossible cage trap yotes on a regular basis. Just not nobody has really taken time to try to perfect it. People either laugh or think your full of it, but never take time to think about it for themselves. We can cage trap just about anything now days including beaver. So why not coyote, are trappers saying the yote is to cautious and smart for them? At some point somebody will have a system that works on a regular basis. The trap is a large part of it but understanding the animal and its behavior will win the day every time. 

Offline Bigbadwolfwdc

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2017, 11:20:26 AM »
Thanks for the info, Im a WCO and next time I have a coyote job Ill post if I get one. Also Im working on getting some access to a few hundred acres for trapping season.

Offline kirkdekalb

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2017, 11:51:57 AM »
Quote
Its my belief that its not impossible cage trap yotes on a regular basis. Just not nobody has really taken time to try to perfect it. People either laugh or think your full of it, but never take time to think about it for themselves. We can cage trap just about anything now days including beaver. So why not coyote, are trappers saying the yote is to cautious and smart for them? At some point somebody will have a system that works on a regular basis. The trap is a large part of it but understanding the animal and its behavior will win the day every time. 

I have just about finished the new design I talked about in my first post. After posting what I said, I decided to make it the next day. It would be best for me not to show. It is the most effective design I have ever come up with. It is just too expensive to make to be practical, unless that changes. Shipping alone, is a stopper. Building it has allowed me to see things I missed before, because I had nothing quite like it. Just another step in the process.

Thank you

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In response to the out of season post.

I caught a red fox right after season closed. I told a person living within 2 hundred yards of the trap that I had caught it and let it go. She told me there were two that had  killed almost all of her chickens. She was not happy.

Coyote can be trapped year around here.

Offline Bigbadwolfwdc

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2017, 12:09:03 PM »
If its okay with you Kirk Id like PM you later about that trap. 

Offline huntingfool7

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2017, 06:22:40 PM »
Primarily looking at something on my own property and I think Kirk's discontinued #30 may serve me well in this application.
Here's my rough take on it...

Offline huntingfool7

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2017, 06:29:34 PM »
Green diamond is the conibear style trigger location. 

The idea is that the coyotes (and other vermin) will try to access the chicken tractor/coop at night.  The birds will naturally be on the raised perch/roost along the trap wall at that time. 

The trap extension/holding area is built in and attached to the #30 Advanced Trap.  The holding pen becomes a long alley next to the roost. 
Will move the wire trigger from the back wall to the roof to open up that space.  The #30 is designed with that trigger location as an option.
 
It's not a mobile WCO design but I think it'd serve my purposes.

Thoughts?

Offline Bigbadwolfwdc

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2017, 09:25:09 PM »
Looks like good set up to me. Like the walk through set up it should well for all critters. Let us know how it turns out.

Offline kirkdekalb

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2017, 10:19:54 AM »
If It is set the way I think it is, it should work.

Offline Holg3107

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2017, 02:40:04 PM »
Good luck Bigbadwolfwdc! looking forward to hearing about how it all works out.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 02:54:07 PM by KFhunter »

Offline Special T

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2017, 03:16:05 PM »
Has anyone tired those large circular hog style guillotine style traps they use in the south?

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2017, 04:40:33 PM »
Way too cost prohibitive!
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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2017, 10:43:36 PM »
Way too cost prohibitive!

I have something I am working on that has the potential to actually be a coyote trap and not so bulky like other ideas I have seen.
Cost is another story. I'm not so sure any coyote cage trap can be built in a very attractive price range.
What kind of price would you think acceptable?
Bruce Vandervort

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2017, 06:14:17 AM »
I don't know, probably less than $500, and that is if it is effective.  Since I can apply for and use padded legholds in certain situations, not sure I would spend a bunch...But I'd have to see the trap and weigh my options.
Fred Moyer


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Offline kirkdekalb

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2017, 03:14:34 PM »
Quote
What kind of price would you think acceptable?


The most you need to charge to come out.


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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2017, 05:16:27 PM »
Humptulips,
Is there a problem using live bait?  I thought we couldn't.

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Re: Caging Coyotes
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2017, 07:43:17 PM »
Humptulips,
Is there a problem using live bait?  I thought we couldn't.

Diane Wirth

You can use live bait but it has to be domestic and it better be cared for properly.
No laws I know specifically address live bait but the laws on animal cruelty would come into play.

(1) A person is guilty of animal cruelty in the first degree when, except as authorized in law, he or she intentionally (a) inflicts substantial pain on, (b) causes physical injury to, or (c) kills an animal by a means causing undue suffering or while manifesting an extreme indifference to life, or forces a minor to inflict unnecessary pain, injury, or death on an animal.

(2) A person is guilty of animal cruelty in the first degree when, except as authorized by law, he or she, with criminal negligence, starves, dehydrates, or suffocates an animal and as a result causes: (a) Substantial and unjustifiable physical pain that extends for a period sufficient to cause considerable suffering; or (b) death.
Bruce Vandervort