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Author Topic: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)  (Read 4443 times)

Offline hunhntr

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Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« on: January 03, 2017, 03:33:02 PM »
What is your opinion of a hunting guide that shoots? Should he/she be tipped?

Online h20hunter

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2017, 03:34:37 PM »
Need more info.  What kind of hunt?
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Offline Angry Perch

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2017, 03:37:26 PM »
If he shoots a bear that's charging you, I'd give a pretty good tip!

Offline huntnfmly

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2017, 03:38:49 PM »
 :yeah:
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Offline hunhntr

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2017, 04:06:34 PM »
Father takes son on first time waterfowl field hunt. Son is fourteen and holding his own shooting both ducks and geese. Guide (also owner) shoots from the get go and adds his birds to overall bag. Father calls BS on this move and allows son to shoot.
Hunt did not go over allowable bag limit.

Offline 92xj

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2017, 04:11:41 PM »
So...
Father, Son and Guide laying in field.
All 3 shoot at the birds coming into the spread.
All 3 shoot birds and do not go over each of their allowed legal limit.
Is the guide shooting a BS move in this situation?
And since he is shooting at birds, should be not be tipped?
Are those your questions?
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Offline jrebel

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2017, 04:13:11 PM »
So...
Father, Son and Guide laying in field.
All 3 shoot at the birds coming into the spread.
All 3 shoot birds and do not go over each of their allowed legal limit.
Is the guide shooting a BS move in this situation? 
Is that your question?

 :yeah:

If so, then no....why not let the guide shoot also?  Now if the guide is filling others limits, that is illegal and totally not cool. 

Offline bobcat

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2017, 04:15:25 PM »
I think the guide should ask the hunters if they mind if he shoots too.

Offline YoungFowler

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Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2017, 04:18:02 PM »
If this father was trying to get his kid on birds and the owner was shooting all the singles and doubles and preventing his clients from shooting birds, that wouldn't be cool. And he probably wouldn't get a tip.

But if there were big enough flocks of enough birds for all three the get their share, I would be cool with him shooting.
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Offline sumpnz

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2017, 04:18:43 PM »
Did the guide keep his birds, divide the harvest unequally, or give them all to the clients?  Did the guide's shooting interfere with the kid's opportunities to shoot? 

If it was me, and the guide gave us all the birds, or if he kept his own birds but waited to shoot until we'd exhausted our own opportunities, then that's cool.  If he took shot opportunities away from us, and/or kept more than just the birds he shot, not so much.

Offline C-Money

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2017, 04:21:38 PM »
Tag...wanna see if the guide is named...
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Offline 2MANY

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2017, 04:35:33 PM »
Guides should guide.
That is what you paid for.
If that was my son and the guide was shooting his birds that guide might find his blind laying flat in quick order.

I call BS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline jackelope

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2017, 04:39:36 PM »
I think the guide should ask the hunters if they mind if he shoots too.

I feel like this is the way to go, and it should be made known up front before it happens. Each hunter has a bag limit. I don't waterfowl hunt and don't know what the limits are, but if it's 6 birds per person, I assume that means that each person can shoot 6 birds. I assume it doesn't mean that if there are 3 people there, 18 birds can be killed regardless of who shoots what. Am I right here?

Were it me, I'd not be ok with the guide shooting until the other 2 killed their limits and a discussion was had to see if all parties wanted to stay and kill another limit.
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Offline Rainier10

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2017, 04:44:59 PM »
When I went on a guided duck and goose hunt the guides were shooting also. They did ask in advance if it was okay.  We still tipped.
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Offline Houndhunter

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2017, 05:26:44 PM »
Guides should guide.
That is what you paid for.


That's my take on it. I never hunt with a client, sometimes fish with them but only if I know them on a personal level. It doesn't look professional for the guide or the outfitter. That being said you should always tip your guide, if your unhappy about something be upfront with them :twocents:

Offline hunhntr

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2017, 05:53:39 PM »
Thanks. Good info.
Just asking because I have only paid a guide three times in 40+ years and assumed it was customary for a guide to guide and not be paid to hunt.
1) It wasn't discussed upfront ... although I was told to let my son shoot first...DUH!
2) Did not get his harvested birds nor did my son completely fill his limit. (Still had the time of his life)
3) Were not having trouble filling our limit nor was the guide waiting for us to exhaust opportunities.
4) Won't name the guide, won't name the area or the state hunted.
5) EVERYTHING  ELSE ABOUT THE HUNT WAS FIRST CLASS!

Offline eastsidemallard74

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2017, 06:37:51 PM »
I've guided before,and in my case you wait a few rounds,of your with a bunch of non shooters than you do. I gave my birds away though. I shot/shot enough not to worry about a few birds. I also would ask if they minded. Most groups i worked with didn't mind,because it wasn't about how many individuals got,for the most part,it was about getting limits.

Offline snake

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2017, 06:38:58 PM »
Thanks. Good info.
Just asking because I have only paid a guide three times in 40+ years and assumed it was customary for a guide to guide and not be paid to hunt.
1) It wasn't discussed upfront ... although I was told to let my son shoot first...DUH!
2) Did not get his harvested birds nor did my son completely fill his limit. (Still had the time of his life)
3) Were not having trouble filling our limit nor was the guide waiting for us to exhaust opportunities.
4) Won't name the guide, won't name the area or the state hunted.
5) EVERYTHING  ELSE ABOUT THE HUNT WAS FIRST CLASS!
If you are happy thats all that matters.  I can't blame the guy for shooting.  Its hard to beat a good day of shooting Sky Carp!

Offline BD1

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2017, 06:58:08 PM »
Every guided duck hunt I have been on the guide only swatted cripples. The rest of the time he was calling or telling jokes or b.s.'nwith us. Also they only ran their dogs after the hunt to mop up difficult to find birds. It should definitely be decided prior to that morning. I personally don't see why they need to "hunt" basically on my dime. At least your kid had fun... Ultimately that is what matters.

Offline BD1

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2017, 07:06:33 PM »
Also if he had enough birds on his string to limit you guys out he should have done that after the hunt was over. Again...merely a personal opinion.

Offline Stickerbush

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2017, 07:11:18 PM »
Usually the guides just shoot cripples. Or if there is poor shooting they might take some shots to achieve the limit faster. However I had a guide explain to me that they don't really like to shoot because that would be party hunting as hunters should only keep the birds they shoot. I'm not sure of the legals on this however, if the guide was shooting and keeping his own birds is see it as fine but if he is limiting the opportunity of the paying hunters then that is not cool
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Offline BD1

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2017, 07:32:55 PM »
Usually the guides just shoot cripples. Or if there is poor shooting they might take some shots to achieve the limit faster. However I had a guide explain to me that they don't really like to shoot because that would be party hunting as hunters should only keep the birds they shoot. I'm not sure of the legals on this however, if the guide was shooting and keeping his own birds is see it as fine but if he is limiting the opportunity of the paying hunters then that is not cool

 :yeah:
I couldn't remember the term but it was "party hunting"
I do think they could give theirs to you once you have left the field...offsite...As long as you are not over your limit with their contribution. I could be totally wrong though.

Offline Dan-o

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2017, 08:21:14 PM »
I think the guide should ask the hunters if they mind if he shoots too.

I feel like this is the way to go, and it should be made known up front before it happens. Each hunter has a bag limit. I don't waterfowl hunt and don't know what the limits are, but if it's 6 birds per person, I assume that means that each person can shoot 6 birds. I assume it doesn't mean that if there are 3 people there, 18 birds can be killed regardless of who shoots what. Am I right here?

Were it me, I'd not be ok with the guide shooting until the other 2 killed their limits and a discussion was had to see if all parties wanted to stay and kill another limit.

I totally agree.

I don't really care if birds are piling in by the dozens.

If I took my young son, I'd like him to be able to raise up and shoot w/o worrying about (or competing against ) the guide.

That's why I'm paying big bucks for the guide to begin with.
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Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2017, 08:40:01 PM »
I feel like calling them guides in the first place is weird.  I can't compare a duck guide to someone like Bearpaw who will spend days in the woods with someone and help him track down big game. 

For this reason, I see the $200-300 I spend on a waterfowl hunt as an opportunity to hunt prime area over great decoys and not have to worry about the details.  I don't mind others shooting because generally speaking there are more ducks or geese than we can shoot anyways. 

Offline KDB

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2017, 08:28:59 AM »
I used to hunt with guides and they also shot but you should remember that most guides are very good shots and they are often just trying to knock down birds that the hunters have hit.  Also party hunting is not legal and when hunting with a group hunters should quit shooting after they feel that have killed their limit.

Offline jackelope

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2017, 10:11:00 AM »
I feel like calling them guides in the first place is weird.  I can't compare a duck guide to someone like Bearpaw who will spend days in the woods with someone and help him track down big game. 

For this reason, I see the $200-300 I spend on a waterfowl hunt as an opportunity to hunt prime area over great decoys and not have to worry about the details.  I don't mind others shooting because generally speaking there are more ducks or geese than we can shoot anyways. 

This is a weird thought process in my opinion.  Do you think the duck guides don't do any work to find those honey holes?
Kind of like saying treestand hunters don't do any work to find their spots.

:fire.:

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My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline 2MANY

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2017, 10:22:35 AM »
Good lease + Food = Ducks

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2017, 10:25:41 AM »
I feel like calling them guides in the first place is weird.  I can't compare a duck guide to someone like Bearpaw who will spend days in the woods with someone and help him track down big game. 

For this reason, I see the $200-300 I spend on a waterfowl hunt as an opportunity to hunt prime area over great decoys and not have to worry about the details.  I don't mind others shooting because generally speaking there are more ducks or geese than we can shoot anyways. 

This is a weird thought process in my opinion.  Do you think the duck guides don't do any work to find those honey holes?
Kind of like saying treestand hunters don't do any work to find their spots.


Pretty big jump in your comparison (IMHO).  Give waterfowl a shot in 2017 and let us know how whatcha think.

Curtis

Online Spuddieselwwu

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2017, 10:34:47 AM »
I feel like calling them guides in the first place is weird.  I can't compare a duck guide to someone like Bearpaw who will spend days in the woods with someone and help him track down big game. 

For this reason, I see the $200-300 I spend on a waterfowl hunt as an opportunity to hunt prime area over great decoys and not have to worry about the details.  I don't mind others shooting because generally speaking there are more ducks or geese than we can shoot anyways.

I feel like you're underestimating the amount of work some guides put in.  I have a close friend that is a pretty well known/successful guide in E.WA that puts in countless hours of work from sun up to sun down scouting, working with land owners to lock up leases/access, maintenance on equipment/boats, working on CRP. 

Offline jackelope

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2017, 10:36:39 AM »
I feel like calling them guides in the first place is weird.  I can't compare a duck guide to someone like Bearpaw who will spend days in the woods with someone and help him track down big game. 

For this reason, I see the $200-300 I spend on a waterfowl hunt as an opportunity to hunt prime area over great decoys and not have to worry about the details.  I don't mind others shooting because generally speaking there are more ducks or geese than we can shoot anyways. 

This is a weird thought process in my opinion.  Do you think the duck guides don't do any work to find those honey holes?
Kind of like saying treestand hunters don't do any work to find their spots.


Pretty big jump in your comparison (IMHO).  Give waterfowl a shot in 2017 and let us know how whatcha think.

Curtis

I've hunted waterfowl 15-20 times and failed miserably 80% of the time. The 20% I did well, we killed the crap out of them directly. I don't like eating them and I have too many other hobbies so I tabled duck hunting.
Maybe I'm missing what you're saying, but it kinda sounds like you're saying there's not a lot of work that goes into successful waterfowl guiding.
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My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline aaronoto

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2017, 10:39:03 AM »
Father takes son on first time waterfowl field hunt. Son is fourteen and holding his own shooting both ducks and geese. Guide (also owner) shoots from the get go and adds his birds to overall bag. Father calls BS on this move and allows son to shoot.
Hunt did not go over allowable bag limit.

I feel like there's more to the story here...

Are you upset that your bag limit was 21 ducks and you were hoping your son could shoot more then 7 because you had 3 guys there, but since the guide shot his 7 he took away opportunity, so to speak, for your son to shoot more?

I don't mind if the guide shoots, the guided hunts I've been on there's been more then enough out of each flock to go around.

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2017, 10:44:08 AM »
I feel like calling them guides in the first place is weird.  I can't compare a duck guide to someone like Bearpaw who will spend days in the woods with someone and help him track down big game. 

For this reason, I see the $200-300 I spend on a waterfowl hunt as an opportunity to hunt prime area over great decoys and not have to worry about the details.  I don't mind others shooting because generally speaking there are more ducks or geese than we can shoot anyways.

I feel like you're underestimating the amount of work some guides put in.  I have a close friend that is a pretty well known/successful guide in E.WA that puts in countless hours of work from sun up to sun down scouting, working with land owners to lock up leases/access, maintenance on equipment/boats, working on CRP.

Sorry not trying to insult your friend, I just don't see the point in them not shooting.  I've never had an issue with it.  If my big game guide had a rifle along "just in case he sees a buck he likes", I would be super pissed. 

Curtis

Offline EWUeagles

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2017, 12:14:20 PM »
I feel like calling them guides in the first place is weird.  I can't compare a duck guide to someone like Bearpaw who will spend days in the woods with someone and help him track down big game. 

For this reason, I see the $200-300 I spend on a waterfowl hunt as an opportunity to hunt prime area over great decoys and not have to worry about the details.  I don't mind others shooting because generally speaking there are more ducks or geese than we can shoot anyways.

I feel like you're underestimating the amount of work some guides put in.  I have a close friend that is a pretty well known/successful guide in E.WA that puts in countless hours of work from sun up to sun down scouting, working with land owners to lock up leases/access, maintenance on equipment/boats, working on CRP.

Sorry not trying to insult your friend, I just don't see the point in them not shooting.  I've never had an issue with it.  If my big game guide had a rifle along "just in case he sees a buck he likes", I would be super pissed. 

Curtis

Aren't you comparing apples to oranges? When was the last time you were on a big game hunt and had herds of 50+ shooter deer just keep piling into your field?

I would have no problem with a guide shooting if we had ample shooting opportunities and he only shot his limits. If you get a group of 20 ducks coming in why not let him shoot? He should let you guys get the first shot or two and not be the first one out of the blind though. I'm glad the OP's son had a great time though.

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2017, 12:16:18 PM »
That was kind of my point.  I guess I didn't communicate it well.

Offline 2MANY

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2017, 12:43:29 PM »
Give me one good reason why he should shoot other than killing a cripple???

You pay him and he hunts?????
LOL.

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2017, 12:48:19 PM »
Give me one good reason why he should shoot other than killing a cripple???

You pay him and he hunts?????
LOL.

Then shoot your own cripples for that matter.  If we're going to be legalistic, that's his bird if he shoots your cripple.

It's waterfowl hunting.  50 birds comes in on 5 shooters, who cares if the guy shoots?  He's calling, he's likely fetching (most of the guided hunts I've been on they get the birds), sometimes they even clean.

I just don't see why it's a problem. 

Curtis

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2017, 12:56:57 PM »
Because I don't think a beginning hunter that paid to go needs to listen to dudeman's 12 gauge barking in his ear.

Probably put the kid on his right too so he could dodge shell hulls.

Rookie guide in his 20's is my guess.

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2017, 01:04:42 PM »
Because I don't think a beginning hunter that paid to go needs to listen to dudeman's 12 gauge barking in his ear.

Probably put the kid on his right too so he could dodge shell hulls.

Rookie guide in his 20's is my guess.

Hasn't been an issue for me.  Generally speaking I duck hunt with others so there will always be other shotguns shooting, and generally speaking I don't get hit with shells.  I mean I'm sure a guide would be happy to not shoot, but again it seems a little weird if you have several people out there that you'd have an issue with just one more shooter.

Offline 2MANY

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2017, 01:10:11 PM »
The 14 year old should have had the bunches of birds to himself.

I bet the same guy pushes 10 year olds out of the way at Seahawk's games to get autographs also.

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2017, 01:20:44 PM »
 :o

Online Spuddieselwwu

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2017, 04:35:20 PM »
I feel like calling them guides in the first place is weird.  I can't compare a duck guide to someone like Bearpaw who will spend days in the woods with someone and help him track down big game. 

For this reason, I see the $200-300 I spend on a waterfowl hunt as an opportunity to hunt prime area over great decoys and not have to worry about the details.  I don't mind others shooting because generally speaking there are more ducks or geese than we can shoot anyways.


I feel like you're underestimating the amount of work some guides put in.  I have a close friend that is a pretty well known/successful guide in E.WA that puts in countless hours of work from sun up to sun down scouting, working with land owners to lock up leases/access, maintenance on equipment/boats, working on CRP.

Sorry not trying to insult your friend, I just don't see the point in them not shooting.  I've never had an issue with it.  If my big game guide had a rifle along "just in case he sees a buck he likes", I would be super pissed. 

Curtis

You're not trying to insult my friend - you just said you don't think that they're guides. I was just outlining a lot of what goes into the hunt that you don't see while you're out there.

Offline greenhead_killer

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2017, 07:08:48 PM »
If it's waterfowl, I feel bang away. You're paying more for location and prep than anything else anyways. I agree with ctwiggs1, let them have at it. I do agree on the letting the younger man shoot first but three shells only goes so far and once those birds are shot at, real good chance they don't come back. Lol. Might as well make the most out of each group.
IBEW 46

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2017, 07:17:31 PM »
Could be worse:  Its pretty common it seems in E. WA to combine parties to reach the minimum of hunters a blind or location is set up for in primo spots.   I would prefer one of the guys be the guide vs a stranger if need be. 

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2017, 07:29:05 PM »
I feel like calling them guides in the first place is weird.  I can't compare a duck guide to someone like Bearpaw who will spend days in the woods with someone and help him track down big game. 

For this reason, I see the $200-300 I spend on a waterfowl hunt as an opportunity to hunt prime area over great decoys and not have to worry about the details.  I don't mind others shooting because generally speaking there are more ducks or geese than we can shoot anyways.




I feel like you're underestimating the amount of work some guides put in.  I have a close friend that is a pretty well known/successful guide in E.WA that puts in countless hours of work from sun up to sun down scouting, working with land owners to lock up leases/access, maintenance on equipment/boats, working on CRP.

Sorry not trying to insult your friend, I just don't see the point in them not shooting.  I've never had an issue with it.  If my big game guide had a rifle along "just in case he sees a buck he likes", I would be super pissed. 

Curtis

You're not trying to insult my friend - you just said you don't think that they're guides. I was just outlining a lot of what goes into the hunt that you don't see while you're out there.

I recognize that.  I guess I need to rephrase what I said.  I have a hard time putting a waterfowl guide in the same category as a big game outfitter. That work? 

Offline jagermiester

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2017, 07:37:07 PM »
I would prefer they hunt just because I like that type of atmosphere.  But if he is the owner I would not tip either way. He gets all the money if he needs more he should charge more I only tip hired hands.
Lead em if they're running.

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Re: Hunting guides that shoot (vs just guide)
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2017, 06:05:14 PM »
I've never guided but I take out first time waterfowlers and youth hunters every season and I will sit back and anchor cripples. I wouldn't have any problem with guides shooting cripples especially on honkers, but I wouldn't like for them to bang out their limits on my payed hunt. :twocents:
"Deer season is just a scouting trip for my next elk hunt"

 

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