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Author Topic: 2017 Winter Kill  (Read 32616 times)

Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2017, 03:19:27 PM »
It begs the question...what is a 2.5 year old deer?
Answer: It depends. :)

Whoops, sorry for the population modeling jargon.  All fawns and calves in the northern states are born mid-late spring, so bios have a habit of tacking on a half year for animals killed during fall hunting seasons.  A 2.5 year old deer is one that was born in the spring two years before the fall in which it was killed.  Some prefer to call the same just 2+, others will assume a June birthdate and call September and October kills 2.3, November 2.4 and December 2.5.  Still others will have actual peak birth timing data for species in their area and go from there.     
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2017, 04:01:22 PM »
As per the OP I wanted to talk winter kill in general, it's a bit early but I'm sure by mid Feb we'll have more than a few specific areas to talk about :(

This seems to be my experience.  December snow doesn't kill deer.  FEBRUARY snow kills deer.  When they're in good shape, they usually seem to come out of it OK as long as the really bad weather ends in January.  Both bucks we killed here in WA had good fat on them this year.
Agreed.  Many thousands of pints of beer have been consumed by dedicated game bios talking about winters and effects on herds.  When a population is low relative to available forage, you hope for mild all the way.  When a herd is in balance with forage or too high, some early severe weather can actually aid over-all herd survival by draining down the reserves of the ones that are going to die regardless - better they die in December than eat 3 months of forage and die in March. 

I do worry for the herds that have been experiencing -20s to -40s F in the northern Rockies and plains - those deer and antelope are going to take a beating I'm afraid - especially if they get hit with spring blizzards.   
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2017, 04:22:30 PM »
Great day today!  After about 6 weeks of snow accumulation with no thaw, it is in the 30s and Wenatchee is a slushy, sloppy mess.  Hopefully the forecast of 5 more days in the mid-upper 30s pans out. 
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline DIYARCHERYJUNKIE

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2017, 04:26:23 PM »
It's 50 here in oly so more warm is coming your way.

Offline Pathfinder101

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2017, 10:32:51 PM »
not lookin' good for the home team...
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Offline Dan-o

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2017, 11:41:54 PM »
As per the OP I wanted to talk winter kill in general, it's a bit early but I'm sure by mid Feb we'll have more than a few specific areas to talk about :(

This seems to be my experience.  December snow doesn't kill deer.  FEBRUARY snow kills deer.  When they're in good shape, they usually seem to come out of it OK as long as the really bad weather ends in January.  Both bucks we killed here in WA had good fat on them this year.
Agreed.  Many thousands of pints of beer have been consumed by dedicated game bios talking about winters and effects on herds.  When a population is low relative to available forage, you hope for mild all the way.  When a herd is in balance with forage or too high, some early severe weather can actually aid over-all herd survival by draining down the reserves of the ones that are going to die regardless - better they die in December than eat 3 months of forage and die in March. 

I do worry for the herds that have been experiencing -20s to -40s F in the northern Rockies and plains - those deer and antelope are going to take a beating I'm afraid - especially if they get hit with spring blizzards.   

Seems the deeper snow has to take a toll......
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Offline crabcreekhunter

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2017, 08:49:38 AM »
Doublelung, been watching the deer around us here and most seem pretty healthy, glassed a few winterkills up when the cold hit.  Just came through town at 1 am and seems like alot more deer in the yards this week now.  I think last years winter was worse in our area.  Looks like warmer temps mid next week.
I've seen some rough-looking fawns, but also some good-looking fawns and most of the adults look good too.  I've been watching that forecast, would really like to see things open up and warm up.  On the bright side, the extended cold has minimized crusting, and snow depths aren't limiting deer to the crucial winter ranges (<2,500' approximately) - there are still deer up to 4,000' at least in some areas.  East of the Columbia, the wind has been keeping wheat and other crops accessible.  I definitely agree last winter was tougher in a lot of north-central Washington.
I havent seen nearly the numbers down in my neighborhood as I have last year which is a good thing i suppose.  The next two weeks will decide will decide a lot.  I know we are a lot better off than idaho and many states. Hoping guys grow a little common sense and leave the deer alone with the head gear dropping and wait til march and april.
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Offline jstone

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2017, 05:19:48 PM »
Isn't this early for the fawns to be dropping?

Offline Mr Mykiss

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2017, 10:15:04 PM »
It begs the question...what is a 2.5 year old deer?
Answer: It depends. :)

Whoops, sorry for the population modeling jargon.  All fawns and calves in the northern states are born mid-late spring, so bios have a habit of tacking on a half year for animals killed during fall hunting seasons.  A 2.5 year old deer is one that was born in the spring two years before the fall in which it was killed.  Some prefer to call the same just 2+, others will assume a June birthdate and call September and October kills 2.3, November 2.4 and December 2.5.  Still others will have actual peak birth timing data for species in their area and go from there.   
Go ahead and model your populations brother. I hang out with Biologists every now and again ;)
I was saying: What does a 2.5 year old deer really look like...110"? 130"? 138"? Forky?
I reckon it just depends.
We had a spirited debate whilst looking over a pile of dead buckums last year...
Pretty sure my buddy kilt the most genetically gifted 78# fawn you ever did see!!
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Offline Mr Mykiss

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2017, 10:15:52 PM »
not lookin' good for the home team...
Damnations!!
At least they're not being wasteful :/
It is hard to follow one great vision in a world of darkness and of many changing shadows. Among these shadows men get lost.
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Offline elkboy

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2017, 10:51:58 PM »
Numbers are looking good, at least in my neighborhood (Whitman County). The yearlings ( last June's crop) seem to have a lot of muscle and fat left on them (I am not seeing ribs or the hollow of the thigh). I believe the abundant growing season precipitation in 2016 really helped them out on weight, aiding winter survival.  The last week's rain melted a lot of snow, exposing a lot of winter wheat and other greens. I actually am feeling pretty optimistic for the local herds. Could be different story in other places, such as for mule deer herds in recently burned winter range.

Offline Bigshooter

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Offline Mr Mykiss

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2017, 08:40:34 PM »
Well I just applied for WY elk so...
It is hard to follow one great vision in a world of darkness and of many changing shadows. Among these shadows men get lost.
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2017, 07:41:52 AM »
Isn't this early for the fawns to be dropping?
I believe they're referring to last years fawns.
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: 2017 Winter Kill
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2017, 07:44:28 AM »
Isn't a cold snap around birthing time the worst for mortality rates in deer and elk, Doublelung?
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