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Author Topic: WDFW called out.  (Read 6801 times)

Offline buglebrush

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2017, 03:29:19 PM »
You go back in time and figure out when the slash burning was banned and the chemical treatment for herbicide started. Pretty sure that gonna go in to connection with the hoof rot starting.  :dunno:

I absolutely think there's a correlation. Timber companies should be able to burn but EPA and WA regulations force them to use herbicides instead. Don't use fire because of air quality BS standards but it's OK to dump chemicals all over the place. Flippin' crazy.

Washington is so stupid it is unbelievable! 

Offline garrett89

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2017, 03:32:31 PM »
You go back in time and figure out when the slash burning was banned and the chemical treatment for herbicide started. Pretty sure that gonna go in to connection with the hoof rot starting.  :dunno:

I absolutely think there's a correlation. Timber companies should be able to burn but EPA and WA regulations force them to use herbicides instead. Don't use fire because of air quality BS standards but it's OK to dump chemicals all over the place. Flippin' crazy.

Washington is so stupid it is unbelievable!
Right? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Ask questions of what has changed. Like others have said the only major change was the chemicals over burning. The state is full of hippie dee dee dee.

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2017, 04:10:45 PM »
You go back in time and figure out when the slash burning was banned and the chemical treatment for herbicide started. Pretty sure that gonna go in to connection with the hoof rot starting.  :dunno:

I absolutely think there's a correlation. Timber companies should be able to burn but EPA and WA regulations force them to use herbicides instead. Don't use fire because of air quality BS standards but it's OK to dump chemicals all over the place. Flippin' crazy.

Washington is so stupid it is unbelievable!
Right? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Ask questions of what has changed. Like others have said the only major change was the chemicals over burning. The state is full of hippie dee dee dee.
If it is so clearly herbicide application, why don't we see hoofrot in many other areas elk inhabit where herbicides are applied?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2017, 07:14:20 AM »
"If it is so clearly herbicide application, why don't we see hoofrot in many other areas elk inhabit where herbicides are applied?"

No one said it's clearly herbicide, so you're reaching, as you tend to do. But since the WDFW won't even consider it as a causation, we won't ever know. Theoretically, if we did study it and found that immune systems were being damaged by herbicide use, the answer to your question is that we are seeing it in other areas where herbicides are in use. It's a growing problem in other areas on the westside now, and in OR. It's definitely spreading. I believe we don't see it on the east side because the wet conditions which favor the bacteria growth don't exist there. This is backed up by the conditions in which both treponema and leptospira thrive - moist, cool environments.
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Offline cougforester

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2017, 08:36:08 AM »
You go back in time and figure out when the slash burning was banned and the chemical treatment for herbicide started. Pretty sure that gonna go in to connection with the hoof rot starting.  :dunno:

I absolutely think there's a correlation. Timber companies should be able to burn but EPA and WA regulations force them to use herbicides instead. Don't use fire because of air quality BS standards but it's OK to dump chemicals all over the place. Flippin' crazy.
This is a great point. People get mad at timber for not burning "like back in the good ole days", but even just getting a permit to burn slash piles is extremely difficult. I'd be all for moving back to that if possible on our land, but the current limitations on burning really force us into a corner.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2017, 09:25:48 AM »
I definitely see that. It's a good example of the unintended consequences. By banning or restricting slash burning, the state and feds are forcing timber to coat the ground with chemicals. The end result is a more negative impact on the environment. Tough spot.
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Offline jmscon

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2017, 09:43:29 AM »
Why is it that the timber companies spray herbicide again? Serious question.
I don't know what I'm talking about because I live in the BIG CITY!
Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

Offline Elkcollector82

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2017, 09:52:32 AM »
Why is it that the timber companies spray herbicide again? Serious question.

Sum it up kill the native vegetation.

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2017, 09:53:06 AM »
Why is it that the timber companies spray herbicide again? Serious question.
They couldn't burn like they used to because of clean air laws.

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2017, 10:02:30 AM »
Oh, ok I misinterpreted the statements as people suggesting herbicides cause hoof rot, which is clearly not the case.  The WDFW looked at many possible causes, and concluded based on extensive evidence treponeme bacteria is the cause of hoof rot.  Some tinfoil hat theories still persist I suppose.

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Offline Elkcollector82

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2017, 10:17:01 AM »
Oh, ok I misinterpreted the statements as people suggesting herbicides cause hoof rot, which is clearly not the case.  The WDFW looked at many possible causes, and concluded based on extensive evidence treponeme bacteria is the cause of hoof rot.  Some tinfoil hat theories still persist I suppose.

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Keep drinking their cool aid  :bash:

Offline cougforester

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2017, 11:21:05 AM »
Why is it that the timber companies spray herbicide again? Serious question.
Herbicide allows planted seedlings a chance to start growing free from competition from other brush/vegetation. Reforestation is expensive, so getting it right is important. Burning would essentially accomplish the same thing (meaning removing/reducing competing vegetation), but as stated above, is hard to do under current laws due to pretty tough regulations/requirements.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2017, 11:50:40 AM »
Oh, ok I misinterpreted the statements as people suggesting herbicides cause hoof rot, which is clearly not the case.  The WDFW looked at many possible causes, and concluded based on extensive evidence treponeme bacteria is the cause of hoof rot.  Some tinfoil hat theories still persist I suppose.

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You can suppose all you want. WDFW has flatly refused to study herbicide use as possibly being causative, as you well know but refuse to acknowledge. Just because you disagree with this as another possible cause doesn't make it a tinfoil hat theory. There are respected scientists who question WDFW's hypothesis on the cause of hoof disease.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline WAPatriot

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2017, 01:01:55 PM »
The genius biologists at the Wdfw are currently telling us that feeding starving deer and elk will kill them.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2017, 01:21:50 PM »
from WDFW

Quote
Wildlife Health

Treponeme associated hoof disease
 in Washington elk

Observations of elk with deformed, broken, or missing hooves have increased dramatically in southwest Washington over the past decade. Tests conducted by scientists in the U.S. and abroad show these abnormalities are strongly associated with treponeme bacteria, known to cause digital dermatitis in cattle, sheep and goats.

Digital dermatitis has plagued the livestock industry for decades, but the disease has never before been documented in elk or other wildlife. The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) is working with scientists, veterinarians, outdoor organizations and others to develop management strategies for elk herds affected by the disease.

Several aspects of the disease in elk are clear:
Treponeme associated hoof disease appears to be highly infectious among elk, but there is no evidence that it affects humans.
•Tests show the disease is limited to animals’ hooves, and does not affect their meat or organs.
•Currently, there is no vaccine for the disease, and there are no proven options for treating it in the field.

from google:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK7716/
Quote
Epidemiology

Humans are the only source of treponemal infection; there are no known nonhuman reservoirs. Venereal syphilis is distributed worldwide, and over the past several decades has become a significant public health problem in many underdeveloped countries. Infectivity rates correspond to the most sexually active age groups. Following the adoption of penicillin as the mainstay of syphilotherapy, the number of new syphilis cases progressively decreased until 1958, after which the trend reversed and a steady increase has occurred. The late 1980's experienced a major increase in the incidence of early syphilis cases which was largely related to crack cocaine usage among inner city minorities. Improved surveillance methods have helped to control this syphilis epidemic. Despite extensive eradication campaigns, yaws remains widespread in the tropics. Pinta remains endemic in Central and South America, and endemic syphilis is present in certain regions of the Middle East. The pathogenic treponemes have many cross-reacting antigens, and untreated infection is believed to confer partial protection against the other treponemal diseases.

I wanna know how these Elk got a human STD  :dunno:

Offline Elkcollector82

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2017, 01:28:59 PM »
from WDFW

Quote
Wildlife Health

Treponeme associated hoof disease
 in Washington elk

Observations of elk with deformed, broken, or missing hooves have increased dramatically in southwest Washington over the past decade. Tests conducted by scientists in the U.S. and abroad show these abnormalities are strongly associated with treponeme bacteria, known to cause digital dermatitis in cattle, sheep and goats.

Digital dermatitis has plagued the livestock industry for decades, but the disease has never before been documented in elk or other wildlife. The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) is working with scientists, veterinarians, outdoor organizations and others to develop management strategies for elk herds affected by the disease.

Several aspects of the disease in elk are clear:
Treponeme associated hoof disease appears to be highly infectious among elk, but there is no evidence that it affects humans.
•Tests show the disease is limited to animals’ hooves, and does not affect their meat or organs.
•Currently, there is no vaccine for the disease, and there are no proven options for treating it in the field.

from google:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK7716/
Quote
Epidemiology

Humans are the only source of treponemal infection; there are no known nonhuman reservoirs. Venereal syphilis is distributed worldwide, and over the past several decades has become a significant public health problem in many underdeveloped countries. Infectivity rates correspond to the most sexually active age groups. Following the adoption of penicillin as the mainstay of syphilotherapy, the number of new syphilis cases progressively decreased until 1958, after which the trend reversed and a steady increase has occurred. The late 1980's experienced a major increase in the incidence of early syphilis cases which was largely related to crack cocaine usage among inner city minorities. Improved surveillance methods have helped to control this syphilis epidemic. Despite extensive eradication campaigns, yaws remains widespread in the tropics. Pinta remains endemic in Central and South America, and endemic syphilis is present in certain regions of the Middle East. The pathogenic treponemes have many cross-reacting antigens, and untreated infection is believed to confer partial protection against the other treponemal diseases.

I wanna know how these Elk got a human STD  :dunno:

They also stated the meat was safe to eat. But yet turned right around and said use your best judgment on consuming the meat, smell, look etc. yeah! I trust them guys about as much as I trust a politician.  :bash: their scientist must been from the local 2nd grade science class.  :dunno:

Offline KFhunter

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2017, 02:01:02 PM »
:dunno: What does all of this have to do with Unsworth being called out for misleading a legislative committee?  And just as important misrepresenting his constituents (i.e. hunters and anglers). The very people who pay his salary.......  :dunno:

hoof rot was in the very first post, the thread seems to be on track although I don't see the FB link.

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2017, 02:35:40 PM »
My bad. I thought this was the thread where unsworth was called out.  Carry on.  My apologies.
That was "Unsworth Has a Bad Day".

Offline Elkcollector82

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2017, 09:56:13 PM »
So they banned slash burning in late 90's. The first elk with hoof rot was also noticed in the late 90's.  :dunno:
What changed? Oh, the chemicals they started using. That was only 2 minutes searching. But yet WDFW won't actually test the chemicals or anything that has to do with any private timber company. They will always just turn their backs on this.  :bash:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/health/hoof_disease/

http://m.tdn.com/news/local/are-herbicides-to-blame-for-region-s-hoof-rot-woes/article_172ae622-0c87-11e4-861b-001a4bcf887a.html

Offline jmscon

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2017, 10:28:57 PM »
Can someone please tell me why the timber companies would spray a cut to keep the natural plants from growing? Fire weed and red alder are the first ones to grow and they actually put nitrogen back into the soil (something that the conifers need to grow).

Seems as though the timber companies, chem companies and WDFW have their heads up each other's arse.
I don't know what I'm talking about because I live in the BIG CITY!
Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

Offline Elkcollector82

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2017, 10:54:21 PM »
Can someone please tell me why the timber companies would spray a cut to keep the natural plants from growing? Fire weed and red alder are the first ones to grow and they actually put nitrogen back into the soil (something that the conifers need to grow).

Seems as though the timber companies, chem companies and WDFW have their heads up each other's arse.

Sum it up. They spray it to kill off the vegetation. So their trees can grow without having other weeds/grasses don't take away nutritional value from the trees.

But yes they all have their heads where the sun don't shine. But yet non will point out the facts. They just keep saying oh we tested. But they never tested the herbicide chemicals. You read the msds of that stuff. Pretty much wipe a town out with a single bottle in the water. Yet some how they find it ok for elk to eat.  :dunno:

Offline JJB11B

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2017, 11:01:36 PM »
It sucks for a lot of reasons, a big thing for me is that the east side is getting more and more pressure and access is dwindling year by year, there it is getting so crowded for each season that is my isn't nearly as fun
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Offline Elkcollector82

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2017, 11:42:43 PM »
It sucks for a lot of reasons, a big thing for me is that the east side is getting more and more pressure and access is dwindling year by year, there it is getting so crowded for each season that is my isn't nearly as fun

Kinda hard to hunt when your rubbing shoulders.  :bash: look at how many spend the money to go out of state. Better game management and a lot more space to hunt. Although I will say that this state does hold a lot of road hunters. So get. Mile off the road and it seems like your in a wilderness all by yourself. Yet your only a mile from the nearest road.

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2017, 09:39:08 AM »
Can someone please tell me why the timber companies would spray a cut to keep the natural plants from growing? Fire weed and red alder are the first ones to grow and they actually put nitrogen back into the soil (something that the conifers need to grow).

Seems as though the timber companies, chem companies and WDFW have their heads up each other's arse.
Some fertilize to try to make up for the difference.  But no real 'crop rotation' philosophy there.  They have made a little change for the better in that a planting might be mixed conifers, whereas in the past it would be all doug fir or spruce or whatever.

Offline kball4

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Re: WDFW called out.
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2017, 08:32:41 AM »
Why don't they do a study on the Olympic National Park herd and if those elk that routinely stay in the park away from logging and pesticides don't have hoof rot then that pretty much solves the where it came from questions, right.

 

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