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Author Topic: Multiple tags Drawn  (Read 5984 times)

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2017, 05:49:36 PM »
Just my 2 cents but i don't mind drawing multiple tags at once.If i draw bull and cow and i don't see a bull i will see a cow.If i don't have that bull tag and see a bull well you know how that is.just like all the people of the state that buy the full DEAL with discounted small game.If you don't and you see a bear or cougar you wish you did.Sure you want the bull over the cow but filling the freezer is just the same.Who on here got bull never saw a bull and still got a tag and was pleased that they did?                OH MAH DID
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Offline Browndawg

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2017, 05:59:19 PM »
Glad I saw this. I've got 6 points for each, and I'd hate to draw multiple. I'm thinking I just might put in for Antlerless and buy points for the Quality and Bull. I'd hate to have to switch units to hunt for a Quality Bull, and eat all my Antlerless points in the unit I usually hunt. West Side Guy.
With odds of drawing a quality permit with six points quite low, I'd think twice about sitting out a year for the very unlikely possibility of drawing multiple permits.
Not planning on sitting out. Paying for the point saver, or "ghost", if I'm understanding the terminology.
I've been putting in for quality bull as a point saver the last few years because the draw I want is on the east side. I hunt the west side. If I put my points in for an East side draw, I have to hunt the east side whether I draw it or not. Stupid rule for my circumstances but I get it.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2017, 06:06:23 PM »
I would consider applying for a point only as sitting out as you have no chance of drawing.  :twocents:
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Offline M_ray

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2017, 06:20:29 PM »
Easy solution.

Just let the tags be filled. If you draw multiple Elk tags, you get to fill multiple elk tags.

Sounds great but the reality is that most will not even hunt for a cow given a bull permit in their pocket. I shot a cow last year in the muzzy season and passed several legal 3 point or better bucks in Wa and ate the tag because I didn't need the meat. I can see people doing the same once one of the tags are filled  :dunno:  Who needs or has the space for two elk? I know some will be the exception to the rule but many hunters will not take two elk even given the chance.


I know a lot of people who could use that meat.  Friends, Family, Hunting buddies with bad luck, etc. 

Lets say you draw a quality and a bull tag, you wouldn't fill both tags if you could?
You have a modern cow and a modern quality tag, 2 separate seasons, I'd love to be in the woods hunting elk that long, who wouldn't?
Or a bull and a cow tag, you see a cow and fill that tag, now your set for meat and can still hunt for that bull of a lifetime knowing your set up if it doesn't happen. You can be picky with no worries about an empty freezer.

I'm just saying make it an option to fill both, right now your just screwed out of a tag
If it's our choice, and you don't need the meat, than don't fill the tag.  At least the choice was yours, not the DFW's.

This is the rub, although you may not mind having two elk many would not even want to or have room for two elk. Most wont make the "CHOICE" to take two and lots of tags go unused.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here are not those of HW Management, Admins, Mods or Myself... But they are the opinions of Elvis who has revealed them to me through the medium of my pet hamster, Lee Harvey Oswald...


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Offline Browndawg

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2017, 06:25:40 PM »
I would consider applying for a point only as sitting out as you have no chance of drawing.  :twocents:
That's what I'm talking about. Buy the point.  :tup:

Offline Joe Rothrock

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2017, 09:22:24 PM »
While we're on the subject of points. I hope everyone keeps a watchful eye on they're accumulated points. I just logged on to my DFW account and am having some concerns about how many points are being used. In the past when you hit submit, the system told you how many points were used. Not the case now. However, today I was able to log on and see my points accumulation and luckily all the categories that I apply for are correct. Spring bear is a bit concerning. Last year I applied - not selected - 1 point. This year I applied - I believe 2 points should have been used - my account only shows 1 point????????? Also, I'm 51 years old, not a master hunter, and fortunately not disabled. Somehow I have up to as many as 9 points in the youth, disabled, 65 and over, and master hunter categories. Its a mystery to me. I realize that at times I act like a kid, and it won't be long til I'm 65, and there are days that I feel disabled. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut and take advantage of the points when I become eligible. I hope everyone's points are in order. Good Luck!

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2017, 09:32:54 PM »
I would consider applying for a point only as sitting out as you have no chance of drawing.  :twocents:
That's what I'm talking about. Buy the point.  :tup:
That's not the way i understood bobs response but ok.  :chuckle:


Bob i agree with you buying it for points only=definitely not getting drawn.  :tup:
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Offline Bob33

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2017, 09:39:18 PM »
While we're on the subject of points. I hope everyone keeps a watchful eye on they're accumulated points. I just logged on to my DFW account and am having some concerns about how many points are being used. In the past when you hit submit, the system told you how many points were used. Not the case now. However, today I was able to log on and see my points accumulation and luckily all the categories that I apply for are correct. Spring bear is a bit concerning. Last year I applied - not selected - 1 point. This year I applied - I believe 2 points should have been used - my account only shows 1 point????????? Also, I'm 51 years old, not a master hunter, and fortunately not disabled. Somehow I have up to as many as 9 points in the youth, disabled, 65 and over, and master hunter categories. Its a mystery to me. I realize that at times I act like a kid, and it won't be long til I'm 65, and there are days that I feel disabled. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut and take advantage of the points when I become eligible. I hope everyone's points are in order. Good Luck!

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,210304.msg2799467.html#msg2799467
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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2017, 09:45:25 PM »
Either let the hunter fill both, or run the draw such that if you draw quality you can't also draw bull/buck or antlerless.

Or do what M_ray suggested and make people pick only one category per species.  Those that want the trophy bull tags won't be in the way of guys like me that would rather get a cow than a rutted out bull anyway since the cows taste better and antlers are a minimal motivator.

I don't care all that much what gets done, but something to improve the draw odds would be nice.
I'd much rather see the categories reduced to one, personally. That's what stared this whole mess.
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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2017, 10:19:43 PM »
you could improve your draw odds by putting in other states,that being said my draw odds are better for me to draw something whether doe bull or cow if i put in for all.  :twocents:
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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2017, 10:21:06 PM »
if everyone only put in for one and that one was the same one you want how does it help?
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Offline M_ray

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2017, 10:55:16 PM »
you could improve your draw odds by putting in other states,that being said my draw odds are better for me to draw something whether doe bull or cow if i put in for all.  :twocents:

I do the same ... I think we are both on the same page though, less people putting in means better odds for you!  ;)
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here are not those of HW Management, Admins, Mods or Myself... But they are the opinions of Elvis who has revealed them to me through the medium of my pet hamster, Lee Harvey Oswald...


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Offline M_ray

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2017, 11:04:15 PM »
if everyone only put in for one and that one was the same one you want how does it help?

You really didn't just say that did you  :chuckle: think about it??? Each person can only pick one, NOT every category.  That eliminates them from all the others making the odds better in the categories that have less people applying. Not really hard to understand  :dunno: There is no way that given the chance everyone will pick the same one.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here are not those of HW Management, Admins, Mods or Myself... But they are the opinions of Elvis who has revealed them to me through the medium of my pet hamster, Lee Harvey Oswald...


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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2017, 11:06:36 PM »
yes except say everyone wants to get drawn for bull like they do so everyone only puts in for bull because like you say they all pick bull so how does that give you better odds again?
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Offline M_ray

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2017, 11:34:21 PM »
yes except say everyone wants to get drawn for bull like they do so everyone only puts in for bull because like you say they all pick bull so how does that give you better odds again?

There is not a chance everyone will pick the same thing ... you really don't believe that do you? There are people that were drawn for bull within the last couple years and don't have the points for what they want but perhaps they have 14 points for deer or 20 points for sheep? Do you really think they are going to put in for bull with 1 or 2?   :hello: 
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here are not those of HW Management, Admins, Mods or Myself... But they are the opinions of Elvis who has revealed them to me through the medium of my pet hamster, Lee Harvey Oswald...


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Online Bullkllr

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2017, 07:22:41 AM »
yes except say everyone wants to get drawn for bull like they do so everyone only puts in for bull because like you say they all pick bull so how does that give you better odds again?

There is not a chance everyone will pick the same thing ... you really don't believe that do you? There are people that were drawn for bull within the last couple years and don't have the points for what they want but perhaps they have 14 points for deer or 20 points for sheep? Do you really think they are going to put in for bull with 1 or 2?   :hello:

Look at it this way:
 
Prior to the multiple categories, everyone had to choose the permits they really wanted and/or thought they had a chance to get. Odds were better across the board because there were way fewer total names in each hat.

After the multiple categories came along, many started putting in for everything. Odds in each category went up dramatically. This is true for quality, bull, cow, etc.
Giving everyone their "points" across all categories messed things up even more. Thousands of people with say 10 points were putting in for cow hunts with people who had been drawing those same hunts with 1 or 2 points.

Say a hunter qualifies for a disabled license. Before 2010, he could put in for a good disabled cow hunt and have a really good chance of drawing. Now, that hunter also puts in for quality, bull, regular cow, etc., in addition to the disabled hunt. This is just an example. When my kids were young, they could put in for something like 6 categories for elk alone.

The old system was more simple and better, imo; better odds, no multiple tags.
WDFW likes the roughly 500% increase in $$ the category system generates, so is unlikely to change.

I agree that going back to one category at this point could have undesirable consequences. Now that everyones' points are inflated (by the ridiculous odds created by the multiple category system in the first place), they probably would all put in for quality bull permits, rather than burn those points on a lesser tag. That's what makes the system somewhat FUBAR, and we're probably better off not making any further changes.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 08:17:05 AM by Bullkllr »
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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2017, 08:26:24 AM »
wait just a minute,I think i am not on the same wave as some.Are you saying instead of the 3 gmu choices you only get 1?because if i was on the same wave then yes i do think almost everyone would want bull elk,unless you somehow got ahold of all the hunters and said hey dont do that i want to.  :chuckle:
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Online Bullkllr

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2017, 08:32:35 AM »
wait just a minute,I think i am not on the same wave as some.Are you saying instead of the 3 gmu choices you only get 1?because if i was on the same wave then yes i do think almost everyone would want bull elk,unless you somehow got ahold of all the hunters and said hey dont do that i want to.  :chuckle:

I think you're right.

In the old system you had 1 elk category. You could put in for a quality bull as top choice, then put in for others if you wanted. While I preferred that system, going back to it now could very likely do exactly what you said.
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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2017, 08:58:42 AM »
also before the rule change there was a lot of whining to change it to what we have now  :bash:  were going full circle with this topic
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Offline sumpnz

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2017, 09:02:19 AM »
wait just a minute,I think i am not on the same wave as some.Are you saying instead of the 3 gmu choices you only get 1?because if i was on the same wave then yes i do think almost everyone would want bull elk,unless you somehow got ahold of all the hunters and said hey dont do that i want to.  :chuckle:

If they keep all the different categories but you can only apply for 1 each year it will do what M_ray suggests. 

Since I'd rather have the higher quality meat, and more frequent opportunity to get said meat, from a cow elk than the horns from a "quality" bull I'd get my nearly annual cow tags because most guys want the horns more than the meat.  They'll get to hunt elk in WA every 6-10 years, and those that can afford it will go out of state the rest of the time.
 
Once my kids are able to start hunting elk with me I might alter that strategy a bit as they'd be putting in for the cow tags so I could concentrate on getting that big bull tag (hey - I like the horns, I just like consistent meat more - if the kids are able to provide the consistent meat with their tags I'll go for the horns). 

In the meantime you won't suffer from my competition for the quality tags and I won't suffer the competition from you all for the cow tags.

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2017, 09:20:35 AM »
 :tup: ok so everyone put in for bull(we don't need a rule change we have honor)me and sumpnz will only put in for cow points on everything else. deal?
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Offline M_ray

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2017, 09:41:13 AM »
wait just a minute,I think i am not on the same wave as some.Are you saying instead of the 3 gmu choices you only get 1?because if i was on the same wave then yes i do think almost everyone would want bull elk,unless you somehow got ahold of all the hunters and said hey dont do that i want to.  :chuckle:

You are really delusional if you think that your odds will be worse than they are now. There are lots of guys that will jump to other categories to try for their buck, quality bull or antlerless not to mention the three oil tags. It is statistically impossible to have every person choose the same thing, they never did in the past and they wont now.
 Also there have a few threads and polls on here that asked "what if you could hunt just one species or one category which would it be?" And there was plenty of support for all other categories, which would mean less competition for your two bull categories.

wait just a minute,I think i am not on the same wave as some.Are you saying instead of the 3 gmu choices you only get 1?because if i was on the same wave then yes i do think almost everyone would want bull elk,unless you somehow got ahold of all the hunters and said hey dont do that i want to.  :chuckle:

I think you're right.

In the old system you had 1 elk category. You could put in for a quality bull as top choice, then put in for others if you wanted. While I preferred that system, going back to it now could very likely do exactly what you said.

Now you would have three elk categories AND there were not preference points then, I wouldn't be in favor of going back to the old system either but a combination of the two would be better than what we have now.  :twocents:

also before the rule change there was a lot of whining to change it to what we have now  :bash:  were going full circle with this topic

Mostly people wanted the preference point system NOT less of a chance the way I remember it?  ;)
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here are not those of HW Management, Admins, Mods or Myself... But they are the opinions of Elvis who has revealed them to me through the medium of my pet hamster, Lee Harvey Oswald...


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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2017, 09:48:28 AM »
you are the delusional one if you think it will change your draw odds by much of a margin.if everyone that you think wont put in for bull puts in for points only to gain points then what is the magic number you get to before you start using your points and everyone that starts putting in for points right now does it at that magic number...............right back here again.no no no the idea of bull oil is the way to go.
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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2017, 09:50:59 AM »
just like today back then they were more concerned about what they got and not the rest of the hunters,including new hunters
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Offline M_ray

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Re: Multiple tags Drawn
« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2017, 10:38:34 AM »
you are the delusional one if you think it will change your draw odds by much of a margin.if everyone that you think wont put in for bull puts in for points only to gain points then what is the magic number you get to before you start using your points and everyone that starts putting in for points right now does it at that magic number...............right back here again.no no no the idea of bull oil is the way to go.

In the old system even without points a guy could draw a quality bull tag every 5-8 years and a good one every 3-5  now you have to wait 10+ and some closer to 20!  :yike:  There were actually more hunters back then and no points and you still drew more often and you think your odds are better now? The numbers just don't add up to match your argument against in fact they support exactly what you want and that is less competition in each category and to draw your bull tag more often. And I know that there are exceptions to the rule and some bull tags are currently drawn now every 3 or 5 but in most cases a really good tag is 10+. The point being is that statistically all across the board every one of them will increase in odds.
There are other states that are doing it this way and they draw more often so this isn't just an experiment or a guess. It is a successful work in progress and as usual the WDFW is on an island doing things completely different than all the others.   :twocents:
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here are not those of HW Management, Admins, Mods or Myself... But they are the opinions of Elvis who has revealed them to me through the medium of my pet hamster, Lee Harvey Oswald...


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