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Poll

Pick you week!

March 1-8
2 (1%)
March 9-15
90 (45.7%)
March 16-22
80 (40.6%)
March 23-31
25 (12.7%)

Total Members Voted: 197

Voting closed: April 02, 2017, 12:59:47 PM

Author Topic: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll  (Read 79707 times)

Offline JWEBB

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #495 on: March 17, 2017, 05:32:45 PM »
They way I look at it,or kinda like a raffle,lottery,scrach ticket, If you win that's great,if you don't , then don't be a sore looser.

This doesn't  make any sense. Your comparing apples to oranges.
Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

Offline bobcat

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #496 on: March 17, 2017, 05:33:15 PM »
Idahohntr said it once but I'll say it again. If you're going to become so upset as if the world is ending, when you see draw results before it's official, just simply don't look until you get notice by email that the drawing is complete and results have been posted, or wait for your permit in the mail.

So if we didn't get an e-mail does that mean that we're not selected? It still says selected on both our tags, but no e-mail. :dunno:

They send out an email when the drawing results have been posted, but I believe only to those that request email notification when you submit your application.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #497 on: March 17, 2017, 05:34:58 PM »
Idahohntr said it once but I'll say it again. If you're going to become so upset as if the world is ending, when you see draw results before it's official, just simply don't look until you get notice by email that the drawing is complete and results have been posted, or wait for your permit in the mail.

So if we didn't get an e-mail does that mean that we're not selected? It still says selected on both our tags, but no e-mail. :dunno:

They send out an email when the drawing results have been posted, but I believe only to those that request email notification when you submit your application.
Emails are sent to those who request one when applying.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #498 on: March 17, 2017, 05:35:45 PM »
Idahohntr said it once but I'll say it again. If you're going to become so upset as if the world is ending, when you see draw results before it's official, just simply don't look until you get notice by email that the drawing is complete and results have been posted, or wait for your permit in the mail.

So if we didn't get an e-mail does that mean that we're not selected? It still says selected on both our tags, but no e-mail. :dunno:

They send out an email when the drawing results have been posted, but I believe only to those that request email notification when you submit your application.
:yeah: I always deny the email notification, I just watch Huntwa to know when it's posted. 
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Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #499 on: March 17, 2017, 05:37:10 PM »
So what exactly is the WDFW doing to make sure that this doesn't happen again and that everyone is properly submitted for the main draw in June? There's what, 40 times as many people in that draw and each person has multiple categories to put in for? So probably 400 times as many hunt choices for them to double check? Instead of 4000 apps they'll have to check over 1 million is what I'm saying. And if they check to see if everyone is submitted correctly on May 19th then the draw will be held sometime around the end of August or September if they have to manually check.... None of this is making any sense at all. I thought in the past that if you didn't choose a hunt then you automatically get a ghost point?
My guess is they are going to run the draw like they have for the last several decades, and if an issue comes up they will address it and move on.  I advise those most upset by this recent draw to not check online results, but wait for a special permit card in the mail.
So we should just ignore the new fancy computer systems and likely tens of thousands of dollars (or more) of IT expenditures that likely translated into higher license/tag fees...Just "wait for the paper" haha...In that case, they can kick all that computer crap to the curb and lower all licensing fees across the board in my humble opinion!
No, 99.999% of us will continue to use the online checks to find out as quickly as we can - recognizing that results aren't official until they say so...usually within hours of selected/not-selected appearing on our accounts.  For those of you so traumatized by this event - you guys wait several weeks longer until your permit card comes in the mail to confirm you were drawn.  Problem Solved.  :tup: 

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline hunter399

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #500 on: March 17, 2017, 06:12:56 PM »
They way I look at it,or kinda like a raffle,lottery,scrach ticket, If you win that's great,if you don't , then don't be a sore looser.

This doesn't  make any sense. Your comparing apples to oranges.

I will try to make some sense,goodluck hunting to those of you that got a permit,better luck next year for those that lost.
If this doesn't make sense, then I give up trying.
I rather piss in the wind,then have piss down my back.

Offline TriggerMike

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #501 on: March 17, 2017, 06:26:07 PM »
Some people on here seem to think that because someone is upset that the new system is already a total failure that they're only upset because they didn't draw? Had I drawn I would be ecstatic to have the tag but I'd still be mad and more than worried about the new draw system. A special permit redraw and having hundreds of thousands of their customers personal information hacked and stolen all in one year. Keep up the great work WDFW, your effort is really appreciated  :tup: lol.

Offline Calvin Rayborn

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #502 on: March 17, 2017, 06:56:08 PM »
Some people on here seem to think that because someone is upset that the new system is already a total failure that they're only upset because they didn't draw? Had I drawn I would be ecstatic to have the tag but I'd still be mad and more than worried about the new draw system. A special permit redraw and having hundreds of thousands of their customers personal information hacked and stolen all in one year. Keep up the great work WDFW, your effort is really appreciated  :tup: lol.

I agree - many just don't seem to get it. It's way beyond sour grapes over who got permits and who didn't. It's how fish & wildlife has handled and continues to handle this situation that should bother everyone. We pay these people's salaries; we deserve to get the job done right, the FIRST time.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #503 on: March 17, 2017, 06:57:46 PM »
Some people on here seem to think that because someone is upset that the new system is already a total failure that they're only upset because they didn't draw? Had I drawn I would be ecstatic to have the tag but I'd still be mad and more than worried about the new draw system. A special permit redraw and having hundreds of thousands of their customers personal information hacked and stolen all in one year. Keep up the great work WDFW, your effort is really appreciated  :tup: lol.
What did the system do wrong that resulted in a "redraw"?
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Offline Calvin Rayborn

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #504 on: March 17, 2017, 07:17:29 PM »
Review of the verified facts for y'all that haven't taken the time to read the entire thread (it IS 20 pages long!)

1. Spring bear drawing occurs 3/16/2017

2. Results are finalized and sent out to everyone's "WDFW WILD system" accounts in "real-time." Several individuals discover that they were selected for permits.

3. WDFW Information Technology personnel realize that 4 (yes FOUR) individuals were left out of the drawing because they did not submit their applications properly. 

4. The four individuals are contacted and 2 (TWO) of them want a chance to hunt spring bear even though they filled out their applications incorrectly.

5. It is then decided that, because of these 2 individuals, that an entire re-draw will be performed of the other approx. 7,000 applicants to be in all "fairness" to these two guys (who, again, did not fill out their applications correctly).

6. The re-draw is performed, and the individuals that were originally selected discover that they have been STRIPPED of their "Selected" status.

7. WDFW maintains complete radio silence until the truth finally comes out via the actions of several citizens.

8. WDFW falls back on the "fairness" logic again as their reasoning for revoking the original applicants "selected" status in favor of the re-draw for the 2 (TWO) guys (who, again, did not fill out their applications correctly)


If you can find any "fairness" in this, then please help me, my tinfoil hat is getting tighter... :tung: :chuckle:




Offline Calvin Rayborn

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #505 on: March 17, 2017, 07:31:13 PM »
So what exactly is the WDFW doing to make sure that this doesn't happen again and that everyone is properly submitted for the main draw in June? There's what, 40 times as many people in that draw and each person has multiple categories to put in for? So probably 400 times as many hunt choices for them to double check? Instead of 4000 apps they'll have to check over 1 million is what I'm saying. And if they check to see if everyone is submitted correctly on May 19th then the draw will be held sometime around the end of August or September if they have to manually check.... None of this is making any sense at all. I thought in the past that if you didn't choose a hunt then you automatically get a ghost point?
My guess is they are going to run the draw like they have for the last several decades, and if an issue comes up they will address it and move on.  I advise those most upset by this recent draw to not check online results, but wait for a special permit card in the mail.
So we should just ignore the new fancy computer systems and likely tens of thousands of dollars (or more) of IT expenditures that likely translated into higher license/tag fees...Just "wait for the paper" haha...In that case, they can kick all that computer crap to the curb and lower all licensing fees across the board in my humble opinion!
No, 99.999% of us will continue to use the online checks to find out as quickly as we can - recognizing that results aren't official until they say so...usually within hours of selected/not-selected appearing on our accounts.  For those of you so traumatized by this event - you guys wait several weeks longer until your permit card comes in the mail to confirm you were drawn.  Problem Solved.  :tup:

Don't even tell me Mr Idaho that you wouldn't be a little peeved if your big bull tag got pulled because of a "fairness redraw" over two idiots that didn't even fill out their apps correctly! "Oh....errr derrr dope! My bad the results weren't official yet...stupid me for looking at the computer - all my fault." You must be a God-given saint sent from heaven above! ROFLMAO!   :chuckle::chuckle:
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 07:40:59 PM by Calvin Rayborn »

Offline hunter399

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #506 on: March 17, 2017, 07:43:44 PM »
Yes it doesn't sound fair , Redraw happens you lose your permit.you will have to contact wdfw ,other than that it sucks.But it has to be fair for everbody,all 7000 people.
I rather piss in the wind,then have piss down my back.

Offline Skillet

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #507 on: March 17, 2017, 07:43:59 PM »
From a strictly analytical perspective, the first "draw" was invalid anyway. The odds were inflated, even if ever so slightly, by the omission of the two hunters.  We don't know if they were first-time applicants or max point holders, so the impact is unknown. But it is indisputable that the impact to the first run was there, so I think the decision to re-run the draw is totally legit.

No draw is official until the WDFW says it is, no matter how compulsive a person's behavior is in checking their account.  Word of advice ibn the future - RELAX.

I applaud WDFW rarely, but they get my respect for making sure this was done fairly. Hoping in the future they don't link real-time activity to the website. Several good suggestions on here already for dealing with that. 

Thanks to trophyhunt as well for taking his time to go there and witness, and helping us understand the actual circumstances of the draw.
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Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #508 on: March 17, 2017, 07:49:07 PM »
So what exactly is the WDFW doing to make sure that this doesn't happen again and that everyone is properly submitted for the main draw in June? There's what, 40 times as many people in that draw and each person has multiple categories to put in for? So probably 400 times as many hunt choices for them to double check? Instead of 4000 apps they'll have to check over 1 million is what I'm saying. And if they check to see if everyone is submitted correctly on May 19th then the draw will be held sometime around the end of August or September if they have to manually check.... None of this is making any sense at all. I thought in the past that if you didn't choose a hunt then you automatically get a ghost point?
My guess is they are going to run the draw like they have for the last several decades, and if an issue comes up they will address it and move on.  I advise those most upset by this recent draw to not check online results, but wait for a special permit card in the mail.
So we should just ignore the new fancy computer systems and likely tens of thousands of dollars (or more) of IT expenditures that likely translated into higher license/tag fees...Just "wait for the paper" haha...In that case, they can kick all that computer crap to the curb and lower all licensing fees across the board in my humble opinion!
No, 99.999% of us will continue to use the online checks to find out as quickly as we can - recognizing that results aren't official until they say so...usually within hours of selected/not-selected appearing on our accounts.  For those of you so traumatized by this event - you guys wait several weeks longer until your permit card comes in the mail to confirm you were drawn.  Problem Solved.  :tup:

Don't even tell me Mr Idaho that you wouldn't be a little peeved if your big bull tag got pulled because of a "fairness redraw" over two idiots that didn't even fill out their apps correctly! "Oh....errr derrr dope! My bad the results weren't finalized...stupid me for looking at the computer - all my fault. You must be a God-given saint sent from heaven above! ROFLMAO!   :chuckle::chuckle:
As I stated earlier, IF the draw was re-done because applicants made an error, and it was entirely their fault...it should not have been "re-drawn".  However, we often see changes/ updates, point total changes etc. happening just before results are posted; so while I don't support catering to applicant errors - I also don't have too much sympathy for those who had an erroneous "selected" for a few minutes or however long before results were official.  Sucks to get your hopes up, but I think some are a little over the top with how big of a deal this really is.  Pretty minor stuff.   

Maybe I'm callous to the whole thing because I can hunt bear any spring I want to and its not a big deal to me.  I'm sure I would be let down if I saw a selected next to a quality elk tag and found out minutes later there was a problem and re-draw.   
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline Calvin Rayborn

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Re: Spring Bear Draw Date Poll
« Reply #509 on: March 17, 2017, 07:53:04 PM »
From a strictly analytical perspective, the first "draw" was invalid anyway. The odds were inflated, even if ever so slightly, by the omission of the two hunters.  We don't know if they were first-time applicants or max point holders, so the impact is unknown. But it is indisputable that the impact to the first run was there, so I think the decision to re-run the draw is totally legit.

No draw is official until the WDFW says it is, no matter how compulsive a person's behavior is in checking their account.  Word of advice ibn the future - RELAX.

I applaud WDFW rarely, but they get my respect for making sure this was done fairly. Hoping in the future they don't link real-time activity to the website. Several good suggestions on here already for dealing with that. 

Thanks to trophyhunt as well for taking his time to go there and witness, and helping us understand the actual circumstances of the draw.

Are you kidding? Any other government agency that I've interacted with: You don't fill out the forms correctly = REJECTED! Don't pass go, don't collect $200, and you could be fined to boot depending on the agency! These individuals were rejects plain and simple to anyone who has eyes to see, except for the "100 percent fairness" doe eyes of WDFW, for what reason I cannot fathom in my space cadet head! :yike:

 


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