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Author Topic: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached  (Read 6326 times)

Offline JODakota

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2017, 09:44:20 AM »
I agree with Idahohntr- not the crime of the century. They DID have a tag. I think the fine was excessive. I also do not condone this but I don't consider it "poaching." Honestly if the dad wants his son to fill his tag that he drew, I almost don't see a reason why it shouldn't be legal. As long as the father is with him it seems like it doesn't make much difference who pulls the trigger. I'm also curious how this case was solved, they only had to deny it unless there was a witness.

I agree. Don't ever go to Minnesota or any of the other Midwest states. Party hunting is pretty normal.
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Offline JDHasty

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2017, 09:44:42 AM »
Not sure why but I just couldn't quit thinking about this story last night.  :bash:  What an awesome buck and what a shame they couldn't get it done the right way.  All that time scouting and hunting and if he would have just spent a little more bench time at the rifle range it all would have been different.

Practice, practice, practice, you never know when that buck of a lifetime is going to present a shot.

This guy had a pretty good idea of where this buck was going to be and just wasn't prepared.

Also, I have found that a Harris Bipod is your friend and I have shot and won in a lot of competition events including rifle silhouette. 

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2017, 09:56:41 AM »
It just becomes a slippery slope in my mind and where do you then draw the line?

Dad draws a tag.  Dad has one son, two sons or seven sons.  "Hey boys, I drew a great tag, let's go hunting whoever sees the shooter go ahead and drop it."  Now you have 1-8 people hunting with one tag.  Odds of filling it just went way up.  They give out tags based on average success rates.  Well the success rate just went through the roof when you have more than one person trying to fill the same tag.

Some will say that dad and one son is okay but dad and three sons is not okay.  Others will say well dad and three sons is fine but you can't include cousins or son in laws in the hunt.

If you are willing to fudge the line of who actually has the tag why not fudge where the GMU boundary line is just a little?  Why not fudge the legal shooting hours just a little?  Why not fudge the season dates a little?

Where do you draw the line of "that was almost legal so it is okay in my book."?
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline bobcat

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2017, 10:01:21 AM »
Rainier10- I totally agree with that analysis as well. It's just like I said though, this particular incident doesn't seem to me like the crime of the century, I wouldn't call that guy a poacher, and I think losing his hunting rights for three years along with a $2,200 fine, plus losing the deer, was excessive.

Offline JDHasty

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2017, 10:02:12 AM »
It just becomes a slippery slope in my mind and where do you then draw the line?

Dad draws a tag.  Dad has one son, two sons or seven sons.  "Hey boys, I drew a great tag, let's go hunting whoever sees the shooter go ahead and drop it."  Now you have 1-8 people hunting with one tag.  Odds of filling it just went way up.  They give out tags based on average success rates.  Well the success rate just went through the roof when you have more than one person trying to fill the same tag.

Some will say that dad and one son is okay but dad and three sons is not okay.  Others will say well dad and three sons is fine but you can't include cousins or son in laws in the hunt.

If you are willing to fudge the line of who actually has the tag why not fudge where the GMU boundary line is just a little?  Why not fudge the legal shooting hours just a little?  Why not fudge the season dates a little?

Where do you draw the line of "that was almost legal so it is okay in my book."?

That is another distinct possibility inevitability. 

Offline jackelope

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2017, 10:06:09 AM »
I agree with Idahohntr- not the crime of the century. They DID have a tag. I think the fine was excessive. I also do not condone this but I don't consider it "poaching." Honestly if the dad wants his son to fill his tag that he drew, I almost don't see a reason why it shouldn't be legal. As long as the father is with him it seems like it doesn't make much difference who pulls the trigger. I'm also curious how this case was solved, they only had to deny it unless there was a witness.

I agree. Don't ever go to Minnesota or any of the other Midwest states. Party hunting is pretty normal.

normal, maybe it's legal??
It's not in this case.
If it's legal, have at it. If it's not, don't have at it. Pretty straight forward, no-slip slope. The Idaho hunting regs are the traction aid on this potentially slippery slope.

:fire.:

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My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline jackelope

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2017, 10:07:25 AM »
Rainier10- I totally agree with that analysis as well. It's just like I said though, this particular incident doesn't seem to me like the crime of the century, I wouldn't call that guy a poacher, and I think losing his hunting rights for three years along with a $2,200 fine, plus losing the deer, was excessive.

Are you good with questionable party hunting in a completely illegal scenario?
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline bobcat

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2017, 10:10:44 AM »
Rainier10- I totally agree with that analysis as well. It's just like I said though, this particular incident doesn't seem to me like the crime of the century, I wouldn't call that guy a poacher, and I think losing his hunting rights for three years along with a $2,200 fine, plus losing the deer, was excessive.

Are you good with questionable party hunting in a completely illegal scenario?

No.

Offline jackelope

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2017, 10:13:35 AM »
Rainier10- I totally agree with that analysis as well. It's just like I said though, this particular incident doesn't seem to me like the crime of the century, I wouldn't call that guy a poacher, and I think losing his hunting rights for three years along with a $2,200 fine, plus losing the deer, was excessive.

Are you good with questionable party hunting in a completely illegal scenario?

No.

Pretty sure this case is THE definition of party hunting, isn't it?
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline bobcat

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2017, 10:20:29 AM »
Rainier10- I totally agree with that analysis as well. It's just like I said though, this particular incident doesn't seem to me like the crime of the century, I wouldn't call that guy a poacher, and I think losing his hunting rights for three years along with a $2,200 fine, plus losing the deer, was excessive.

Are you good with questionable party hunting in a completely illegal scenario?

No.

Pretty sure this case is THE definition of party hunting, isn't it?

I don't know. I don't know exactly how it went down. I'd say a lot depends on their intent. But we'll never know that. I'm done with this thread. Basically all I wanted to say is that I feel the penalty was more than necessary. Some people it sounds like would give him the death penalty, while the Green River killer gets to live.

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2017, 10:22:48 AM »
Rainier10- I totally agree with that analysis as well. It's just like I said though, this particular incident doesn't seem to me like the crime of the century, I wouldn't call that guy a poacher, and I think losing his hunting rights for three years along with a $2,200 fine, plus losing the deer, was excessive.
:tup:
I agree there are certainly worse crimes.

So your comments were more about how steep the penalty was for something that was illegal but just not as bad as it could have been?

I guess I can see that a little.  I think many have continued to hunt after filling a tag under the premise of "I still have a cougar or bear tag".

At this point in my hunting life I am beyond the kill and more into the hunt and sharing the experiences with friends and family.  I can do that without breaking the rules and it just makes it more enjoyable for me.

Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Gringo31

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2017, 10:36:36 AM »
Quote
Honestly if the dad wants his son to fill his tag that he drew, I almost don't see a reason why it shouldn't be legal.


The issue comes down to Can you transfer your tag to someone else?

The answer is no. 

IF this was legal, people would be selling their tags.  I drew a sheep tag.  I'm certain if legal, I could have taken bids and made a good profit.  This state is so goofy the other way, that it was made clear that anyone in the field with me sheep hunting couldn't carry a weapon.  It is for the reasons in the buck story....that is why.  At the time, I would have loved to have my brother pack my rifle or bow (one or the other).  It is the law that made me pick one and not have both as options on the hill.  Or...cuz I'm lazy and didn't want to pack both of them myself  :chuckle:
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
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Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2017, 10:52:14 AM »
Quote
Honestly if the dad wants his son to fill his tag that he drew, I almost don't see a reason why it shouldn't be legal.


The issue comes down to Can you transfer your tag to someone else?

The answer is no. 


Actually, in Idaho - the answer is YES.  You can transfer any controlled hunt tag to a child/grandchild under 18 years old.  I vehemently opposed this rule for the reasons JDHasty brought up...while I like the idea of Grandpa giving his grandchild that coveted bull tag he drew...I don't like the idea of people putting mom, dad, grandma and grandpa on both sides of the family in for hunts - thereby increasing their odds 6-fold. 

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline OutHouse

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2017, 11:03:43 AM »
It would be interesting to take a look at the publicly available documents behind that case.

I was thinking the same thing. The article says they ended up pleading guilty. I would think the evidence would have to be pretty good to cause them to plead in this situation. Like most people confronted by police, they may have simply told the truth after being read their rights. Must have been a confession for them to give up in such fashion. And if they told the truth, I applaud them for that.

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2017, 11:08:04 AM »
It would be interesting to take a look at the publicly available documents behind that case.

I was thinking the same thing. The article says they ended up pleading guilty. I would think the evidence would have to be pretty good to cause them to plead in this situation. Like most people confronted by police, they may have simply told the truth after being read their rights. Must have been a confession for them to give up in such fashion. And if they told the truth, I applaud them for that.
:yeah: The best advice for their defense would have been to say nothing and let the lawyers handle it all.  If they did just come clean when questioned that is great.  It saves everyone a bunch of time and money trying to prove it.  Just come clean, take your lumps and move on.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Online Forks

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2017, 11:39:55 AM »
Here is a photo of a living Idaho legend that didn't need his kids or grandkids to put down the #1 and #3 Muley's in the state. His grandson Jared, who is a close friend, gave me this.

Offline Timberstalker

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2017, 11:47:16 AM »
Greed.

There are a lot of words, thoughts and opinions in this thread.  This one is the best descriptor.
If you aint hunting, you aint livin'

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2017, 12:32:03 PM »
The fine and punishment is a joke.
Should be a minimum 10 year license yank IMHO.

And there are those on this site that believe it's no big deal if the poacher simply buys back the antlers.
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline JDHasty

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2017, 12:47:29 PM »
Remember this guy? 

https://www.gohunt.com/read/news/breaking-story-bull-elk-scam-DIY-backcountry-hunt-or-high-fence#gs.18waIYM

Well, well, well.... lookie what I got in my email.  Maybe these guys were on the radar already.   

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2017, 12:52:02 PM »
What am I missing? :dunno:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline JDHasty

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2017, 12:55:46 PM »
What am I missing? :dunno:

this Wyohighcountry was known a "sketchy" site ran by a sketchy guy

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2017, 12:59:19 PM »
What am I missing? :dunno:

this Wyohighcountry was known a "sketchy" site ran by a sketchy guy

Did Gary Nix own the site? :dunno:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline JDHasty

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2017, 01:07:43 PM »
What am I missing? :dunno:

this Wyohighcountry was known a "sketchy" site ran by a sketchy guy

Did Gary Nix own the site? :dunno:

Guy I got the email from said that he remembered both the father and son as being very active on it. 

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2017, 01:13:20 PM »
I absolutely love this quote and think it really applies in this case.

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: Idaho 2015 record mule deer poached
« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2017, 01:22:51 PM »
I agree with Idahohntr- not the crime of the century. They DID have a tag. I think the fine was excessive. I also do not condone this but I don't consider it "poaching." Honestly if the dad wants his son to fill his tag that he drew, I almost don't see a reason why it shouldn't be legal. As long as the father is with him it seems like it doesn't make much difference who pulls the trigger. I'm also curious how this case was solved, they only had to deny it unless there was a witness.
I agree with you more often than not - but not this time.  I include these guys in with the class of scum who break the rules for notoriety and gain.  The internet and hunting show celebrities, the gear reps, the article submitters and contest enterers who cheat to win - all scum in my book, and anathema to fair chase.  I'm glad they forfeited the head, since that is what they most craved - their own 'pedestal" in the look-at-me community.  They are no different than the spotlighters, closed season and trespassing scum in my opinion.  They are a blight within the hunting community, and a blight on the reputation of hunters with the nonhunting majority who support legal, regulated hunting done lawfully by hunters of integrity.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 01:31:25 PM by DOUBLELUNG »
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

 

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