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A Hunting Trip of a lifetime in the Wenaha Tucannon Wilderness! Trophy Bucks and Bulls

Poll

Should all OTC tags be eliminated and draw only hunting be the way forward?

NO - keep the general season open
262 (69.1%)
YES - make all hunting special draw only like Utah
117 (30.9%)

Total Members Voted: 379

Author Topic: Should ALL general season Elk hunts be canceled in favor of permit only hunting?  (Read 13681 times)

Offline KFhunter

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Some members expressed interest in discussion about Washington going to a draw only Elk state like Utah. 


discuss, keep civil.
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." -George Bernard.

Offline WAPatriot

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Can f no be an option

Offline trophyhunt

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Can f no be an option
Thats exactly what I was thinking, and if this was Facebook I'd spell it out!

Offline lord grizzly

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this will be a pretty stark example of how un informed most hunters are about management and specifically management for quality hunting experiences. if you want to save time I can let you know now what the poll results will be.

Offline KFhunter

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this will be a pretty stark example of how un informed most hunters are about management and specifically management for quality hunting experiences. if you want to save time I can let you know now what the poll results will be.

I'd rather see intelligent reasoned responses of why and how it should be changed (or not)
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." -George Bernard.

Offline Curly

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It probably should be permit only at least for say a 3 year period if the Yakama Indians will adhere to some realistic seasons and limits.  Give it a try for a 3 year period and see how it goes.

If the Indians don't want to change, then maybe it's time to do away with spike only for the rest of us.
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Offline KFhunter

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It probably should be permit only at least for say a 3 year period if the Yakama Indians will adhere to some realistic seasons and limits.  Give it a try for a 3 year period and see how it goes.

If the Indians don't want to change, then maybe it's time to do away with spike only for the rest of us.

Art of the deal...

If they won't come to the table or self regulate then I'm in favor of an any Elk general season in areas such as this.  Yes, the herd will be shot to oblivion but it will rebound and we can get on with a better and more cooperative system.  There's no incentive for Yakima's (or other tribes) to come to the table for negotiations, making it permit only will just reward that behavior and punish US for being good stewards.
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." -George Bernard.

Offline lord grizzly

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why would the herd rebound with a free for all season? all that will happen is there will be no season after the elk populations cant sustain hunting. no ones willing to give anything for what they say they care so much about. telling

Offline kentrek

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Can f no be an option
Thats exactly what I was thinking, and if this was Facebook I'd spell it out!

 :yeah: ifor you can't kill elk now,making everything a special permit sure isn't going to help

Offline KFhunter

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why would the herd rebound with a free for all season? all that will happen is there will be no season after the elk populations cant sustain hunting. no ones willing to give anything for what they say they care so much about. telling

My theory is a free for all season would bring the tribes to the table, a deal could then be struck, a reasonable management system could be put in place, then the Elk could rebound and we'd have cooperation with the tribes in managing it.  It's a long term solution. 

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." -George Bernard.

Offline Skillet

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I don't think elk hunting should go permit only.  My primary reason is that what I define as a quality experience is simply the opportunity to get out in the woods and hunt every year.  I don't much care about the size of any bull's rack, as long as it's legal (I don't even play the permit game anymore).

Going permit only will likely disincentivize many hunters like myself from buying licenses at all.  I'd just go over the counter in Idaho and spend my money there. I think the wdfw knows that, and will not take the chance on cutting of the revenue stream.  Instead, I believe they will continue to reduce days in the field to match the harvestable numbers of elk. 

My perspective has nothing to do with the health of the herds, increasing the size of the racks, or the meaning of "quality experience" to other people. It is just my selfish desire to be able to hunt elk every year in my home state. 
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Offline lord grizzly

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My perspective has nothing to do with the health of the herds, increasing the size of the racks, or the meaning of "quality experience" to other people. It is just my selfish desire to be able to hunt elk every year in my home state.

why it will never get better for you guys. I just hope after this round of new regs over here Idaho jacks the out of state prices way up. there's already an increase coming for next year I believe. you guys will get just what your asking for I promise

Offline KFhunter

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I don't think elk hunting should go permit only.  My primary reason is that what I define as a quality experience is simply the opportunity to get out in the woods and hunt every year.  I don't much care about the size of any bull's rack, as long as it's legal (I don't even play the permit game anymore).

Going permit only will likely disincentivize many hunters like myself from buying licenses at all.  I'd just go over the counter in Idaho and spend my money there. I think the wdfw knows that, and will not take the chance on cutting of the revenue stream.  Instead, I believe they will continue to reduce days in the field to match the harvestable numbers of elk. 

My perspective has nothing to do with the health of the herds, increasing the size of the racks, or the meaning of "quality experience" to other people. It is just my selfish desire to be able to hunt elk every year in my home state.

I understand that and feel the same way, but the success rates are abysmal.  I feel that the abysmal success rates are driving away hunters too.  Also; there's nothing on the table to incentivize the tribes to cooperate in a reasonable Elk harvest.
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Offline Skyvalhunter

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 :yeah: I agree with that also like AZ practices where some areas are permit only where they actually have Quality hunting areas. Probably more $ is the result of Wa current system for now but at the current rate that won't remain.

Offline Skillet

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I don't think elk hunting should go permit only.  My primary reason is that what I define as a quality experience is simply the opportunity to get out in the woods and hunt every year.  I don't much care about the size of any bull's rack, as long as it's legal (I don't even play the permit game anymore).

Going permit only will likely disincentivize many hunters like myself from buying licenses at all.  I'd just go over the counter in Idaho and spend my money there. I think the wdfw knows that, and will not take the chance on cutting of the revenue stream.  Instead, I believe they will continue to reduce days in the field to match the harvestable numbers of elk. 

My perspective has nothing to do with the health of the herds, increasing the size of the racks, or the meaning of "quality experience" to other people. It is just my selfish desire to be able to hunt elk every year in my home state.

I understand that and feel the same way, but the success rates are abysmal.  I feel that the abysmal success rates are driving away hunters too.  Also; there's nothing on the table to incentivize the tribes to cooperate in a reasonable Elk harvest.

Those are good points KF.  I don't expect my take on it to be popular here, and that's ok.
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Offline BreezyBear

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Like the modern general elk season in the Colockum is a quality hunting experience? Not even close, it's past time for an actual management strategy!

Offline ghosthunter

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If you go permit only everyone loses.
All the big camps will give up and go some where else.

You will kill hunting in this state.
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Offline Jpmiller

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There are monster bulls in Washington and I personally have known guys who pull elk every year. Making it permit only won't put a monster behind every tree or even in every drainage. The system right now let's me hunt elk every year and I like that. Success rates are low sure but if you put in the time and effort and get out of your truck and out of eyesight of a road you can get into elk.

I see this more as a blame the natives and the state for my not getting an elk issue. We have permit only areas and we have general season areas, as I can see the system is OK. I am no biologist however.

Offline Fl0und3rz

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No. Hunter recruitment would suffer, I'd think.  You have to start somewhere, and you won't start by unsuccessfully putting in for permits year after year.

Offline Colorado Kid

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I don't know about you, but I look forward to elk season every year. I wouldn't want a permit only season, I already don't like the fact that for muzzleloaders they put our general deer season on top of our general elk season which shortens my hunting season! Like many of you, I enjoy the time spent with family and friends hunting. I look forward to days spent in the woods enjoying the sights, sounds, and sharing experiences at the end of the day. It isn't all about filling a tag (though it sure is great when it happens), I have great memories of teaching and guiding our daughters, and learning from them. I hope that our hunting privileges won't get limited to the luck of a draw as in other states (Nevada is all special permit :-( ).  It would be great if we could get all parties to adhere to the harvest numbers for the elk! Then we could all keep looking forward to the fall  :)

Offline KFhunter

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There are monster bulls in Washington and I personally have known guys who pull elk every year. Making it permit only won't put a monster behind every tree or even in every drainage. The system right now let's me hunt elk every year and I like that. Success rates are low sure but if you put in the time and effort and get out of your truck and out of eyesight of a road you can get into elk.

I see this more as a blame the natives and the state for my not getting an elk issue. We have permit only areas and we have general season areas, as I can see the system is OK. I am no biologist however.

I always hear the same thing.   I know guys who do it every year, get out of the truck, don't blame the natives because you cannot hunt like the guy I know, It's about the hunt not the kill.......

Sorry jpmiller.  If I want to go camping I'll go camping.
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Offline Roperfive88

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My perspective has nothing to do with the health of the herds, increasing the size of the racks, or the meaning of "quality experience" to other people. It is just my selfish desire to be able to hunt elk every year in my home state.

why it will never get better for you guys. I just hope after this round of new regs over here Idaho jacks the out of state prices way up. there's already an increase coming for next year I believe. you guys will get just what your asking for I promise

The price increase is on resident hunters and using a price lock where if you buy your license every year it wont go up. IDFG runs on revenue form license and tag sales. Last time they raised out of state licenses it actually cost them money because some out of state hunters quit buying licenses.

Offline pianoman9701

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I oppose blanket, non-scientific-based regulations on hunting. If the herd of a given unit is lagging and needs stiffer regulation, then do it unit by unit. To make the decision a statewide change would be disastrous to license sales and make an already over-regulated hunting state even moreso. I think we'll start seeing this happening in units which include the Mt. St Helens herd soon enough.
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Offline Special T

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I don't think you can talk about big game management elk or deer without adressing predator management. Trying to solve the issue with out doing so is a circular firing squad.

If horses are getting attacked by cougars how do you think the deer and elk are doing?  Quotas in general and low ones to boot for cougars, wolves, coyotes and bears need an adjustment in management.  It is also likely the 1 area where you can get broad support from hunters. So many of the small things have been done to protect predators we could make pages of un needed regulation to repeal.

I'll give you one small example. A few years ago you could buy a deer or elk +bear+cougar combo.   There are no elk with a general season here in the nw part of the state (of any real consequence) yes the 407 has a couple of really small patches. I always bought the deer bear cougar combo. When they took that away I would either just purchase a deer or cougar tag to go with the small game.  On its own it seems like a small change, and the wdfw reasoning for it was BS but it was only one small part to the puzzle.
Start stacking all the other things they do to make it hard to kill just cougars and it makes a big difference in how many are harvested... same goes for bear, and coyotes, and protected wolves.
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Offline sumpnz

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Copying my response on this topic from another thread.

I'm of a couple minds on this topic.  I liked that it (draw only in AZ) kept the crowds down so you could have a quality experience without needing to hike 15 miles from the nearest road.  But, because your points were for "elk" not "antlerless elk" and "bull elk" and "quality elk" it also meant that you had to generally choose to hunt the less desirable areas most years, or hold out for that once in a decade chance to hunt the premier units.  E.g. I only ever bothered to put in for antlerless hunts for elk because the draw odds meant I could hunt about every other year.  Bull tags would take 6-10 years to draw.  If I only wanted that bull tag I'd need to go out of state if I wanted to hunt elk at all during the years I didn't draw the AZ tag.  And that was unaffordable for me.

If you went to draw only here in WA I could definitely support that if you kept the basics of the draw system we already have and just greatly expanded the number of tags.  Though, the special permit application fee should be reduced since everyone would be forced to apply if they wanted to hunt at all.  So, keep separate draws for antlerless/bull/quality with separate points accumulation for each.  That way if I want to hunt cows while I wait for my quality tag to come through I can.  And then make the current general season areas bull rather than quality tags and provide enough tags for about 50-75% success rates to leave a harvest similar to what we see now.  So, if a given GMU sees a 5 year average of 100 bulls harvested then give out 135-200 tags for that unit.  Then adjust tag levels based on observed success rates and management needs.

Same could be done for deer as a means of better managing things like the Methow mule deer herd.

 

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