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Poll

Should all OTC tags be eliminated and draw only hunting be the way forward?

NO - keep the general season open
262 (69.1%)
YES - make all hunting special draw only like Utah
117 (30.9%)

Total Members Voted: 379

Author Topic: Should ALL general season Elk hunts be canceled in favor of permit only hunting?  (Read 35326 times)

Online trophyhunt

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Can't believe it's only 67% against, you guys are nuts to want statewide permit only hunting. The west side does not need to be permit only, except for a few rifle rut tags I feel the entire west should be over the counter, except the watershed of course. 
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline flatbkman

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I think that the first thing that would come out of going to all hunting by permit would be that the WDFW would raise the hunting fees to make up for the loss in hunter numbers. Then they would raise it again to try to "help" in areas where animal recruitment is not up to standard.

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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why would the herd rebound with a free for all season? all that will happen is there will be no season after the elk populations cant sustain hunting. no ones willing to give anything for what they say they care so much about. telling

My theory is a free for all season would bring the tribes to the table, a deal could then be struck, a reasonable management system could be put in place, then the Elk could rebound and we'd have cooperation with the tribes in managing it.  It's a long term solution.

I'd disagree with that. It will never go to no hunting for the tribes. They'd sue the State for not managing the herds properly to perpetuate their treaty rights and it would end up tribes hunting, non tribal sitting on the couch twiddling their thumbs.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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In 2015, the last year the state has reported, there were 68,012 elk tags issued. And there were 7,829 elk harvested.  That is over 8 1/2 hunters buying a tag per elk taken.  If the State went to permit only, who is going to make up that revenue stream? If the State only gave out 7,829 tags, they would have to charge at least 8 1/2 times the current amount per tag to keep their revenue stream for elk tags at current levels.  Even if they gave out twice as many tags as elk they expected to be taken to take in to account they will never get 100% kill rate, they would have to raise tags by 4 1/4 times just to keep revenue at current rates. 

If hunter interest in elk hunting remained the same, the average hunter would be drawn to hunt elk every 4 1/4 to 8 1/2 years.  Are you willing to pay 4 1/4 to 8 1/2 times the current tag rate to only be able to hunt every 4 to 8 years? You might as well be hunting out of State.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline huntnnw

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UT isn't the only state that is draw only and I find it even more absurd that the state of WA has a general OTC rifle Mule deer hunting . Many other states with far greater habitat and deer numbers are draw only

Offline greenhead_killer

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I voted no. I like the gen season. I'm not the best hunter in the world but I consistently put myself in situations to be successful year after year. Most years I pass shots and eat tag soup because I do t want the hunt to be over and not finding my goal animal. I'm self taught and if I didn't have the opportunity for so much failure with otc seasons, I wouldn't have the success and appreciation I do now for all the work it takes. Limiting the opportunities makes learning take 10x longer when going solo imo.

Offline Skyvalhunter

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May be a different story after this year.
The only man who never makes a mistake, is the man who never does anything!!
The further one goes into the wilderness, the greater the attraction of its lonely freedom.

Offline Mr Mykiss

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UT isn't the only state that is draw only and I find it even more absurd that the state of WA has a general OTC rifle Mule deer hunting . Many other states with far greater habitat and deer numbers are draw only
Been presenting evidence of the "quality" of one of our mule deer herds to em for years. I get what I consider to be an honest answer.
"We manage for opportunity, not quality"
It is hard to follow one great vision in a world of darkness and of many changing shadows. Among these shadows men get lost.
-Black Elk

Offline KFhunter

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UT isn't the only state that is draw only and I find it even more absurd that the state of WA has a general OTC rifle Mule deer hunting . Many other states with far greater habitat and deer numbers are draw only
Been presenting evidence of the "quality" of one of our mule deer herds to em for years. I get what I consider to be an honest answer.
"We manage for opportunity maximum revenue, not quality"

fixed

Offline Colorado Kid

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Guess I should specify I really know nothing about wetside elk.  But here in central washington there are more elk then there has ever been.  Every year the numbers continue to climb.  Harvest rates are low because output is directly related to input.  Go for a drive in the mountains at noon during elk season and count the number of folks sitting in camp.  Time on the mountain=success, not a permit in your pocket.  I've hunted a lot of the west and I see more elk here in the hills behind my home town than anywhere I have hunted including CO.
I don't know where you were hunting in Colorado, but there are many areas with a lot more elk than you will ever see around Selah!

Offline samsqatch

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I remember the days as a young guy late 80s I would walk from my house up into manashtash ridge and it would be easy to take a branch bull with my 30-30 open sights. I no longer hunt elk here in wa.

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Guess I should specify I really know nothing about wetside elk.  But here in central washington there are more elk then there has ever been.  Every year the numbers continue to climb.  Harvest rates are low because output is directly related to input.  Go for a drive in the mountains at noon during elk season and count the number of folks sitting in camp.  Time on the mountain=success, not a permit in your pocket.  I've hunted a lot of the west and I see more elk here in the hills behind my home town than anywhere I have hunted including CO.
I don't know where you were hunting in Colorado, but there are many areas with a lot more elk than you will ever see around Selah!
I've hunted multiple units across the state.  What's your point :dunno:
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Offline JakeLand

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I don't think you can talk about big game management elk or deer without adressing predator management. Trying to solve the issue with out doing so is a circular firing squad.

If horses are getting attacked by cougars how do you think the deer and elk are doing?  Quotas in general and low ones to boot for cougars, wolves, coyotes and bears need an adjustment in management.  It is also likely the 1 area where you can get broad support from hunters. So many of the small things have been done to protect predators we could make pages of un needed regulation to repeal.

I'll give you one small example. A few years ago you could buy a deer or elk +bear+cougar combo.   There are no elk with a general season here in the nw part of the state (of any real consequence) yes the 407 has a couple of really small patches. I always bought the deer bear cougar combo. When they took that away I would either just purchase a deer or cougar tag to go with the small game.  On its own it seems like a small change, and the wdfw reasoning for it was BS but it was only one small part to the puzzle.
Start stacking all the other things they do to make it hard to kill just cougars and it makes a big difference in how many are harvested... same goes for bear, and coyotes, and protected wolves.
If you want to pick a battle it needs to be one worth fighting and that makes a difference. 2c

 :yeah:

Offline Gringo31

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Quote
I'll bet $250 towards the turkey foundation we get better genetics in the cascade herd!


Harvest won't change DNA.  It will however change age class.






Not to pile on, but you can't manage half of a system.  The tribal rights pretend to work together with the state......I'd love to believe that they do!  I'm with KFhunter on this one.  Today they have zero reason to work with the state.  That being said, part of me is hopeful it's already happening.  The Colockum is an example of odd increases in harvest allowed by the state.
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
-Ronald Reagan

Offline luvmystang67

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Much like effort spent on FB, I don't actually assume that my comment will change anyone's mind, but I'm surprised that nobody has brought up what is basically a compromise in our state...

For those who want opportunity on bulls every year, there's the relatively open OTC west side.  For those who want to play the permit game, there's special apps for horn hunting on the east side.  I concede that the NE is a little different duck, but its low in overall number of elk hunters and population, so for this discussion I don't consider it a critical component.

Regardless, the state has given you choice, it has managed herds differently so you can do whatever type of hunting your heart desires.  They haven't doubled down on a single strategy and have laid out multiple options and you see what the results are. 

I love the ability to have an annual elk camp where everyone can come and participate.  I can simultaneously work hard to learn and achieve success every year and also put in for hunts that might get me a higher success rate or a larger animal based on what is important to me.  The reason I love elk hunting is BECAUSE it is hard, its BECAUSE success rates are so low, its BECAUSE large animals are so challenging to get.  This is why I think I'll be entertained throughout my life chasing these things.  I grew up hunting deer on San Juan Island, which is a lot like it sounds like most of you wish elk hunting was.  I rarely hunt there anymore as I'm bored by the lack of challenge.

I, like some others on here, find it pretty upsetting that some of you would prefer to take away our privilege to hunt every year so that you could have an opportunity to have an easier shot at larger antlers.  Kind of reminds me of a particular political party that I don't support that would like to take things from me to give to others who aren't willing to work as hard. :bash:

 


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