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Author Topic: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?  (Read 3200 times)

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2017, 11:27:11 AM »
There is no genetic difference between old bucks and young bucks. They either have it or they don't. I've killed enough deer in my life(really not that many compared to most here I'm guessing) that I'm not interested in shooting young bucks anymore. I just don't need to. I'm going to throw out that the old, mature bucks may or may not have worse odds of dying over winter, etc. If we're talking migration routes, mule deer seem to use the same routes and follow the does, right?
That video out of Wyoming depicting their mule deer migration seems to show they all follow roughly the same path, and the younger bucks move first, right?

The only thing I'd clarify (not disagreeing with you)  is that "bad genetics" wouldn't tend to make it to full maturity as often as "good genetics" would.  If a buck is an old warrior he's probably got good genetics.


I tend to shoot young bucks, I have enough trouble getting my wife and kids to eat that.  A smelly old rutted bruiser?   ....forget it.   When I was a kid if I brought home a buck with more than 3pt's I'd get chewed out.  "what you bring that nasty old thing home for boy?" 
:yeah:
It's also important to rememeber that there are more to "good" genetics than big antlers, but that seems to be lost in the magazine and tv management world.

Offline eburgtrapper

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2017, 11:27:19 AM »
I think about this as if they are cattle. If you have two Bulls, one is three and has let's say 7 years of breeding left, and you have an 8 year old with two years of breeding left, (excluding taste/meat quality) If you remove the older bull you still have 7 years of breeding from the younger animal.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2017, 11:31:24 AM »
I think about this as if they are cattle. If you have two Bulls, one is three and has let's say 7 years of breeding left, and you have an 8 year old with two years of breeding left, (excluding taste/meat quality) If you remove the older bull you still have 7 years of breeding from the younger animal.

For every 40 cows put out 10 bulls (both young and old) and see what happens then.  Who's doing the breeding and who's doing the fighting?  and who's hiding in the corner trying not to get his butt kicked



Offline Gringo31

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2017, 12:07:19 PM »
It's an interesting question.....


I'll add my  :twocents: in this way.  I don't believe one hunter has the ability to make much of an impact (limited to the two decisions you listed).  If you spend time and really watch deer, you may see that mature buck keep the smaller ones away and should he die, the smaller bucks won't miss a beat.

That being said, you can see a mature buck in a particular area today, gone tomorrow with the same does hanging around.  All in all, it matters little (when it comes to your choice and the impact of the herd).

As others have said, predator removal can make a real impact.  I'll also throw out there that IMO WDFW doesn't believe deer and elk can live in the same places.  Your area is seen by them as an "elk area" and they have made management decisions to have an intentional low deer population.
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Offline jackelope

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2017, 12:09:33 PM »
I think about this as if they are cattle. If you have two Bulls, one is three and has let's say 7 years of breeding left, and you have an 8 year old with two years of breeding left, (excluding taste/meat quality) If you remove the older bull you still have 7 years of breeding from the younger animal.

For every 40 cows put out 10 bulls (both young and old) and see what happens then.  Who's doing the breeding and who's doing the fighting?  and who's hiding in the corner trying not to get his butt kicked




They will be breeding and no longer hiding in the corner when the mature buck dies.
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Offline eburgtrapper

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2017, 12:11:10 PM »
I think about this as if they are cattle. If you have two Bulls, one is three and has let's say 7 years of breeding left, and you have an 8 year old with two years of breeding left, (excluding taste/meat quality) If you remove the older bull you still have 7 years of breeding from the younger animal.

For every 40 cows put out 10 bulls (both young and old) and see what happens then.  Who's doing the breeding and who's doing the fighting?  and who's hiding in the corner trying not to get his butt kicked


Or let's say 2 bulls and 8 cows. That way it's a controlled size. Who knows what's going to happen with ten Bulls. Maybe the old Bulls win the fights and breed but then they are wore out and can't rebound and get killed by predators. All I'm saying is side by side it's better to take the older bull with the hopes of more years of possible breeding out of the younger one. I know there is a lot of different things to add to the equation like others have said male to female ratios, predators, winter....

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2017, 12:16:48 PM »
I'm just not sure there's a lot to be gleaned from a controlled herd of cattle to deer in the wild.  I know my young bull is pretty proud of himself even though he had to jump to breed the older cows  :chuckle:

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2017, 12:39:05 PM »
Too anecdotal to get any real answer.   Deer densities, buck to doe ratios are all askew where you are mentioning.   Throw in unlimited tribal harvest, etc.  just be amazed to find two branch Antler bucks in the first place. This is an area wher spikes are breeding.

  One could say an older buck would have a better chance of surviving the gauntlet than a younger one, thus might actually make it to breeding season.

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2017, 01:10:50 PM »
Thanks for all the replies, everybody.  Sounds like I just need to spend my time working on the coyotes and not worry so much about which buck I take. 

And I'll say for clarity that if I ever ACTUALLY saw both in the same place at the same time, I'd be too surprised to even think about it and would probably fire on the one that presented the first clean shot.  This is a fun thought experiment though :)

Offline buckcanyonlodge

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2017, 01:35:17 PM »
Let both of them walk..Go hunt an area where deer aren't so underpopulated. Both bucks breeding will bring the population back sooner.
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Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2017, 01:38:44 PM »
Exactly which GMU's are at population objectives in the first place would be interesting.

Offline Squidward

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2017, 02:12:18 PM »
With a companion card in your pocket, shoot both.   :chuckle: :dunno:

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2017, 02:38:27 PM »
Shoot the mature buck.  People pretty much summed everything up already. 

Google Valerius Geist.  He has some very good books on most all the ungulate species. It can be a little heavy reading but it is very interesting.

Also pm doublelung.  He's kind of a smart guy on this stuff.
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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2017, 04:22:55 PM »
Let both of them walk..Go hunt an area where deer aren't so underpopulated. Both bucks breeding will bring the population back sooner.
Plan A this year is to take a buck from Alpine Lakes or Glacier Peak wilderness in the high buck hunt.  I'm PUMPED about that trip :)

I'm still wrestling with whether or not to hunt my home units at all, given the population numbers.   

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Re: Which deer to take in an underpopulated GMU?
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2017, 04:23:18 PM »
Shoot the mature buck.  People pretty much summed everything up already. 

Google Valerius Geist.  He has some very good books on most all the ungulate species. It can be a little heavy reading but it is very interesting.

Also pm doublelung.  He's kind of a smart guy on this stuff.

Thanks for the suggested reading!

 

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