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Author Topic: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017  (Read 3113 times)

Offline grade-creek-rd

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Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« on: March 07, 2017, 02:24:00 PM »
Archery hunters allowed to kill does, but nobody else, not even youth even if WDFW gives out antlerless permits for the GMU's...this is dumb...why take away youth opportunities but allow adults (archery) to kill does. They should have made it youth only for antlerless opportunities...

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Grade
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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2017, 02:33:43 PM »
 :bash:   Shhhhhhhh, let's get our permits before we bring this up!!!  It went so long to, I thought we had a chance of the changes not getting posted on here......slim chance but a chance. 

Offline grade-creek-rd

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 02:58:06 PM »
Why keep it quiet...the new rules suck for the youth hunters, other than that it's not much of a change...going back to the 2 pt min. (who cares, not like a bunch of people bought the permits to shoot spikes) and the permits don't sell out anyway, so it's not like there's going to be a mad dash and no chance at a permit...

If anything, I hope past permit holders call and complain about the youth opportunities taken away. How is it OK for adults to kill does but not have youth get that opportunity? Makes no sense...

Grade
There's more to life than hunting...there's fishing too!

Offline Duckslayer89

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2017, 03:07:08 PM »
Why keep it quiet...the new rules suck for the youth hunters, other than that it's not much of a change...going back to the 2 pt min. (who cares, not like a bunch of people bought the permits to shoot spikes) and the permits don't sell out anyway, so it's not like there's going to be a mad dash and no chance at a permit...

If anything, I hope past permit holders call and complain about the youth opportunities taken away. How is it OK for adults to kill does but not have youth get that opportunity? Makes no sense...

Grade

Archery doe hunt vs a 300 yard rifle kill? Big difference. Apply for a different unit that's open then for doe. Deer numbers aren't what they should be up there.

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2017, 03:12:18 PM »
Why keep it quiet...the new rules suck for the youth hunters, other than that it's not much of a change...going back to the 2 pt min. (who cares, not like a bunch of people bought the permits to shoot spikes) and the permits don't sell out anyway, so it's not like there's going to be a mad dash and no chance at a permit...

If anything, I hope past permit holders call and complain about the youth opportunities taken away. How is it OK for adults to kill does but not have youth get that opportunity? Makes no sense...

Grade
Id just like to go into the elk draw with the best odds possible, I hope your right and less people get the pass.

Offline grade-creek-rd

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2017, 03:18:49 PM »
Duckslayer89...if you look at my post I specifically say Youth...I could care less about adults shooting does, with a bow or a rifle...but why discourage the youth, especially when they give out specific youth tags for antlerless that starts the week before the general season...I agree that the deer numbers aren't the same as they used to be but this isn't because of youth hunters, it's because of the combination of all hunters as well as game management and forest practices...

Grade

PS. Adult kills a doe at 30 yards with a bow or kills one at 300 yards with a rifle...still a dead doe...let the youth have that opportunity not an adult with an over the counter tag that has many more GMU's open for does.
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Offline Dhoey07

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2017, 03:31:37 PM »
I don't get a Kapowsin pass, but I grew up hunting on the westside and I wasn't discouraged from hunting because I couldn't shoot a doe.  The idea that a youth is more inclined to pursue hunting because they can shoot a doe is a farce IMO. 

As for archery does, that is pretty much on par with the state regs.

Offline grundy53

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2017, 06:06:49 PM »
I don't get a Kapowsin pass, but I grew up hunting on the westside and I wasn't discouraged from hunting because I couldn't shoot a doe.  The idea that a youth is more inclined to pursue hunting because they can shoot a doe is a farce IMO. 

As for archery does, that is pretty much on par with the state regs.
Agreed. I never hunted does when I was a youth and I still managed to get addicted to hunting.

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Offline grade-creek-rd

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2017, 09:02:35 PM »
"As for archery does, that is pretty much on par with the state regs."...So are the youth antlerless permits put out by the WDFW, which by the way, will still be issued by the WDFW for GMU 654 but Hancock is saying they won't honor the WDFW permit on their lands...the game animals cannot be privately owned in WA, as they are owned by the people, this is a big land owner imposing their own management on our animals (which they have every right to do on their lands) but it makes no sense that they allow adults to kill does but not youth...and as far as "still managed to get addicted to hunting" without youth doe permits, well, keep in mind WA is losing hunters at an alarming rate and soon non-hunters and anti-hunters will even have more of a stronghold...if the WDFW gives youth doe permits then Hancock should think twice about allowing them on their lands, after all, it's mostly hunters who buy the permit and hunter numbers are dwindling...soon there won't be hunters to buy the permit...makes no sense is all I'm saying.

Grade
There's more to life than hunting...there's fishing too!

Offline Dhoey07

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2017, 09:23:15 PM »
"As for archery does, that is pretty much on par with the state regs."...So are the youth antlerless permits put out by the WDFW, which by the way, will still be issued by the WDFW for GMU 654 but Hancock is saying they won't honor the WDFW permit on their lands...the game animals cannot be privately owned in WA, as they are owned by the people, this is a big land owner imposing their own management on our animals (which they have every right to do on their lands) but it makes no sense that they allow adults to kill does but not youth...and as far as "still managed to get addicted to hunting" without youth doe permits, well, keep in mind WA is losing hunters at an alarming rate and soon non-hunters and anti-hunters will even have more of a stronghold...if the WDFW gives youth doe permits then Hancock should think twice about allowing them on their lands, after all, it's mostly hunters who buy the permit and hunter numbers are dwindling...soon there won't be hunters to buy the permit...makes no sense is all I'm saying.

Grade

It's no different than if I owned 200 acres and let you hunt on it as long as you didn't shoot a doe. I agree with you that hancock should think twice about allowing doe tags, but they chose to manage their property differently than the state. In fact, you could argue while they are actually managing their land while the state is managing for revenue.

Offline Clearcut

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2017, 09:28:02 PM »
I think allowing timber companies to make such decisions like these are a slippery slope. Ya it's "their land to manage", but where does the line get drawn? What if all the companies take this route?

Offline Dhoey07

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2017, 09:37:42 PM »
I think allowing timber companies to make such decisions like these are a slippery slope. Ya it's "their land to manage", but where does the line get drawn? What if all the companies take this route?

What if they close it to everybody?

Offline Duckslayer89

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2017, 09:52:04 PM »
Duckslayer89...if you look at my post I specifically say Youth...I could care less about adults shooting does, with a bow or a rifle...but why discourage the youth, especially when they give out specific youth tags for antlerless that starts the week before the general season...I agree that the deer numbers aren't the same as they used to be but this isn't because of youth hunters, it's because of the combination of all hunters as well as game management and forest practices...

Grade

PS. Adult kills a doe at 30 yards with a bow or kills one at 300 yards with a rifle...still a dead doe...let the youth have that opportunity not an adult with an over the counter tag that has many more GMU's open for does.

I know you said youth. When I was a kid I literally dreamed about bow hunting before I got to take hunters ed. Get your kid a bow and practice a bunch, or go to another unit that allows for antlerless hunting where there are more deer

Offline Buckhunter28

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2017, 09:52:52 PM »
I completely understand what you're getting at, but it is more of a matter as Hancock has taken to recognition that their deer numbers are dwindling. I think that they understood a child/youth hunter will be more likely to shoot a doe than an adult hunter, and so they took the route to blockade the youth shooting of a doe on this permit as they saw this as more of a threat to the doe populations. Perhaps they used the harvest report cards to come up with these statistics and saw the majority of does was killed by youth hunters with special permits, not the archery adult hunters looking to kill a buck, just my  :twocents:  :tup:

Offline Duckslayer89

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2017, 10:04:17 PM »
Btw I wouldn't mind no antlerless for archery either

Offline grade-creek-rd

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2017, 09:30:08 AM »
Duck...my kid hunts with archery, muzzle loader and rifle...heck, he would use an Atz if he could! (plus he would rather hunt mule deer in the high country) This isn't about my son, this is simply a comment about how one group is allowed to harvest does and another user group isn't even though it is perfectly legal (it's just a Hancock internal rule, not a law as other lands inside this GMU will have any buck and doe hunts unless WDFW changes it)...and as far as youth taking more does than others, maybe that's because they have a special draw just for does! Hancock is managing for money, not wildlife (IMO) as they know hunters buy the pass, and a lot of archery hunters buy it for the 9 week (sept and late hunt combined) any deer season (now 2pt+ or does). If the deer numbers are that low then they should cut the amount of permits they sell and cut the doe hunts...but they instead increased the permits and price of them years ago to the point that they don't sell out...

Again, yes, this is their land, they can manage it any way they want...just like if I owned 200 acres and I didn't want does killed, that's my choice...but to say one group of hunters (mostly adults due to weapon abilities/draw poundage, etc) can shoot does but not provide an opportunity to another user group (youth, who happen to be the one user group that needs this type of hunt the most to increase our hunter population for the future) is setting a really bad example...Hancock has a great opportunity to do good for the hunting community in which they make a lot of money off of...

Long story short: Archery hunters are primarily adults (buy passes) and have a 9 week doe or 2pt+ bucks season...youth can't buy passes and their doe hunts aren't honored. Makes no sense unless you follow the $$$

Grade
There's more to life than hunting...there's fishing too!

Offline dvolmer

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2017, 10:31:48 AM »

I know nothing about this west side hunting access permits by Hancock but it does bring up an interesting topic.  Private land owners by law are not allowed to make up there own hunting laws.  They can charge for access if they want.  They can work with the game dept to come up with special permit opportunities for themselves and others.  But they aren't supposed to make up their own laws.

for example, in the Bitterroot valley of Montana, a very rich man bought up a lot of land that the public had hunted for many years.  he kept it all to himself and got a reputation as a jerk my the locals.  to try and alleviate some of this he decided to let first time youth hunters access his land and shoot a cow elk if they scored so high on their firearm safety test.  This worked out fine until one kid came in to hunt.  When he got there and was put in front of the herd his dad told him to shoot the biggest bull in the herd.  He did and the landowner went ballistic.  He called the game warden and when he showed up he asked the land owner if he had given permission to the kid to access his land to hunt.  the land owner told him he did but that he could only shoot a cow and not a bull.  The game warden showed the land owner that the unit that his land was in was opened for both bull and cow for youth hunters.  he could give or deny access to people but the animals are owned by the people that are on his land and not by him.  So the kid did absolutely nothing that was illegal and shot a bull on land that he had been given permission to access and bull season was open in that unit. 

I am not totally sure of this, but I heard it was true about the ranches that side up to the Hanford site here in Washington.  These ranches were charging people access to hunt their land at $1000 per antler point.  This came back as illegal.  They could charge what ever access fee they wanted to but it couldn't be based on the animal they killed because they don't own the animals.  So they can charge a $10,000 access fee if they want but whether you shoot a 3x3 rag horn or a 8x8 trophy it doesn't matter.

This land you are all talking about should be ruled by the Washington State Game dept.  Not a land owner.  If the land owner and state get together and make the rules then that is different.  I'm not sure, maybe that is what is done here.  Just a little bit to think on.
Zonk Volmer

Offline Branden

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2017, 10:41:12 AM »
So your saying the one youth that got greedy and shot the bull on the ranch in Montana probably ruined it for all other youths? If I allowed people to hunt my land and hunters didn't follow the rules I set on that land then I would deny all users access and tell them to thank whoever broke my rules.

Hancock will probably just pull your permit if you shoot a spike.

Offline cavemann

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2017, 10:58:42 AM »
I heard all the deer are in Vail and there are even a few "non classified exotics" to take..  I'd buy a pass for Vail or Weyco or even put my efforts on a mulies in E Wa.. Hancock is all shot up, deer numbers are dwindling and the new rules are going to make it worse..........

Offline Clearcut

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2017, 10:59:59 AM »
I don't hunt this area in question. I think 2pt or better is a good rule. But i don't think it's this "timber management" companies decision to make. It's what WDFW is for. Even though how well they manage anything could be in question it's what there here to do. Allowing these types of things to start could be the start of the end for hunting for 99% of people here. What if Weyco (nazi Germany) decided that they were gonna no longer honor cow permits on there tree farms and bull had to be 5pt or better and in 5 years there charging thousands of dollars for access per person. ? Should they be able to have rules on there property? Absolutely.. but not when it comes to game management.

Offline dvolmer

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2017, 11:04:17 AM »
Amen!!!  Clearcut.
Zonk Volmer

Offline dvolmer

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2017, 11:07:39 AM »
Branden, I am from eastern Washington so I have no Idea even what Hancock is.  But its a very slippery slope to go down when the landowners think they own the taxpayers animals.  I'm not saying what that kid in Montana did is right or wrong.  I would be more apt to agree with you.  But when each entity makes its own rules it can start to go south really quickly.
Zonk Volmer

Offline grade-creek-rd

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2017, 11:09:50 AM »
Thank You Clearcut!!! this is exactly my point! You articulated it very well, I appreciate your feedback!

Grade
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Offline dvolmer

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2017, 11:11:13 AM »
Look at the disaster that has been put in place by just the Natives having their own set of rules.  What if this Hancock company decided to let you shoot 3 deer a year for the cost of your permit and the limit for the state is one deer a year.  Not some place I want to see this go.  If Hancock has special wishes and desires they should get a hold of WDFW and make some agreements that are in the general regs. 
Zonk Volmer

Offline cavemann

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2017, 11:21:00 AM »
thread jacked, maybe??  There is a little irony in the fact neither of you have purchased a permit, hunted or know where Hancock is but have an opinion on how they run it.  I think the idea of privately owned land and access has been discussed before.  This is not new, and it's not even new to Hancock.

 

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