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Author Topic: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017  (Read 3114 times)

Offline grade-creek-rd

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2017, 02:27:09 PM »
Chester....the contract can't make up state laws and you can only be arrested for breaking state laws...

Grade
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Offline chester

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2017, 02:28:15 PM »
Pretty sure once you sign it, it's legally binding.
 :bdid:
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Offline cavemann

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2017, 02:36:20 PM »
The need so many have to debate just to debate is exhausting..  If you don’t like the rules, don’t buy a pass or join the club.  The idea that anyone would consider or challenge the rules by breaking them and use any of the excuses noted in this thread is sad..  The permit application is very clear what the rules are before you pay your $375..  It would take a special kind of person to agree, pay and access the property and willingly violate the rules behind the excuse that “legally” you are in your right..  Here’s your sign…..

Offline grade-creek-rd

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2017, 02:40:48 PM »
Its a civil contract only...legally binding for their rules that they can revoke your permit and not give your money back for breaking the rules...but you can't make up state laws enforced by the cops just because someone signs a piece of paper with made up rules...again, if I buy a movie ticket I am agreeing to adhere to the movie theatre rules and the ticket gives me access, if they say "no cell phone use during the movie" and I use my cell phone they can't call the cops and have me arrested for trespassing they can only kick me out without refund...

And caveman, I do agree with you that if you don't like the rules and aren't going to abide by them then don't buy the pass...that is not the argument here. What is being discussed is the fact that a landowner is making up their own "laws" and bigtex is saying you can go to jail for breaking up their made up rules...and the thread did take a turn (as they always do) as I originally posted this topic to highlight the changes...which happen to be a landowner making up their own game laws...slippery slope which started the debate.

Grade
There's more to life than hunting...there's fishing too!

Offline ellensburgpo

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2017, 04:47:17 PM »
Its a civil contract only...legally binding for their rules that they can revoke your permit and not give your money back for breaking the rules...but you can't make up state laws enforced by the cops just because someone signs a piece of paper with made up rules...again, if I buy a movie ticket I am agreeing to adhere to the movie theatre rules and the ticket gives me access, if they say "no cell phone use during the movie" and I use my cell phone they can't call the cops and have me arrested for trespassing they can only kick me out without refund...

And caveman, I do agree with you that if you don't like the rules and aren't going to abide by them then don't buy the pass...that is not the argument here. What is being discussed is the fact that a landowner is making up their own "laws" and bigtex is saying you can go to jail for breaking up their made up rules...and the thread did take a turn (as they always do) as I originally posted this topic to highlight the changes...which happen to be a landowner making up their own game laws...slippery slope which started the debate.

Grade

 :yeah: not sure how violating a civil contract with a private corporation equals a criminal offense in this. It's a private company, they can't have your freedom taken from you over their rules. It's like saying if you drive 10mph in the Fred Meyer parking lot but it's posted 5mph you can go to jail for breaking their rules. The government decides what you go to jail for. Ie laws. I rarely disagree with you big Tex but I do in your assessment that it'd be trespassing if you broke their rules.
KCCO

 The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.
Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929

Offline Duckslayer89

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2017, 04:55:34 PM »
People may not like these rules, they probably still won't sell out on permits. Maybe sell less even. The two extra elk tags is a joke imo. They will sell out probably once deer number go back up because of reduced antlerless tags.

Offline Jpmiller

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2017, 05:50:49 PM »
Could the trespassing thing be that once you are in violation of the contract you are no longer legally allowed to be on property and therefore trespassing?

 I don't know why you would choose to shoot a spike if you know you're in for a fight. There was a guy I heard about near ellensburg that tried something similar (testing the rules of a hunt) and while he was found not guilty I don't think it worked out well for him.

Offline grundy53

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2017, 06:29:54 PM »
If you don't like the rules don't buy their pass.

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Offline ellensburgpo

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2017, 07:51:55 PM »
Could the trespassing thing be that once you are in violation of the contract you are no longer legally allowed to be on property and therefore trespassing?



By that logic I'm violating all kinds of places rules by having a chew in but it says no tobacco products. Or guys that carry guns at a business that request they not be carried. The logic of it being turned into trespassing is seriously flawed. I'm not saying it's not possible to find a cop unreasonable enough to cite it, and a similarly unreasonable prosecutor to try someone under the circumstances. But I'd personally be more concerned with getting hit by lightning. If they catch you breaking their rules, tell you to leave and you refuse at that point your asking for an actual trespass issue in my opinion. I'm not advocating signing a contract knowing you're going to violate it, I'm just trying to provide clarity about the outcome of that.
KCCO

 The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.
Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929

Offline ellensburgpo

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2017, 07:52:55 PM »
If you don't like the rules don't buy their pass.

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 :yeah: Seems that simple
KCCO

 The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.
Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929

Offline Tbar

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #60 on: March 09, 2017, 07:56:35 PM »
Didn't the bull ross posted come out of Kapowsin? Big bulls in there!

Online justyhntr

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #61 on: March 09, 2017, 09:41:21 PM »
If you don't like the rules don't buy their pass.

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Exactly , and if Hancock sells less passes this year then they will know people aren't happy . But it would not have mattered what changes they made somebody was not going to be happy . I have a friend complaining about the new camping rule . He believes that now that it is included with the pass that everybody is going to be camping in there and he won't be able to find a spot .He says he won't be buying the pass this year , I bet he does . A common theme in the earlier survey thread was to not allow doe harvest , Hancock drops the doe harvest for modern and muzzy special permits and people aren't happy . Be careful of what you ask for . As an archer I will readily admit that I lobbied Hancock for archery and to maintain doe harvest . I didn't lobby against other group , only lobbied for archers by using what ever data I could find for 654 only because we can not get harvest reports for Kapowsin ( it would be nice if they put those numbers out )  . I have never harvested a doe on Hancock land but I hate to see opportunity taken away , it's just to hard to get back . If Hancock would have taken doe harvest from archers then I would be hunting somewhere else next year . $375 for less opportunity , just wouldn't be worth it to me .I can find bears in other places .  As it stands we'll be back in there this year , only difference , we now will be doing some camping . As for deer numbers , still to many predators . We are in there every week end hunting predators and so far have only come across one other person other than our selves hunting predators hard . Last week end we found what we believe to be a cougar kill on a young elk . I'm still irritated  that they shut down the cougar season early .   

Offline fireweed

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2017, 10:19:06 AM »
If you don't like the rules don't buy their pass.

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 :yeah: Seems that simple

The problem with "just say no" is that in some areas these big landowners have what amounts to a monopoly on land.  Having so much land with little competition gives unfair control. For places like Cowlitz county, Weyerhaeuser owns nearly half of all the land in the county, and controls access to most of the public land too.   

Offline brokentrail

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2017, 08:27:53 PM »
I buy the pass every year as it is close for me and I can get more hunting in than if I just took a week off work and hunted elsewhere.  I already do that but I can still hunt evenings and weekends as well.

To me, it is unfortunate that they won't honor the youth doe permits.  Two of my boys have used that permit to kill their first deer, I have another one who is about to be licensed and that opportunity may not be there for him, depending on if they keep or change this rule.  I'm not a biologist and therefore can't say there are plenty of does, although nor am I against the 2 pt minimum,  but taking away youth opportunity for success wasn't what I had hoped for with their rule changes.

I'll buy it again this year and hope they think about the youth permits differently next year.


Offline Jharstad7182

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #64 on: March 20, 2017, 09:45:29 AM »
I buy the kapow gate access to take my kids up and drive around shoot grouse and coyotes and occasionally deer hunting if I'm not in eastern wa but I mostly buy it for the chance to shoot a bull in possibly the best elk spot in western Washington I've seen at least a dozen monsters every year I've been hunting its worth the 375 just for the chance at one if I get selected. Plus I go through the 5 cords of wood a year it pays for it self. I'm kinda hoping less people buy the tag so I can have a better chance at a great elk hunt

Offline Old Man Yager

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #65 on: March 20, 2017, 04:53:12 PM »
Amen to that , I think everybody who didn't buy thier pass yet should boycott them!! JUst kidding, and yes I already bought mine. Like was stated, I buy it cause it's close to home, and I grew up in those woods before it was private ownership. Easy choice for me. Don't have to spend time and gas to go other places.
My Dad always said, " Get a bigger hammer "

Offline scottfrick

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 06:31:54 PM »
As I look at it, it's their property so it's their rules. I'll keep buying the permit because it's close to home and I know a lot of Buddies that also buy the permit. I would like to see them open up the bridge gate side for spring bear.... that would be awesome.

Offline Duckslayer89

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Re: Hancock Kapowsin New Rules 2017
« Reply #67 on: Yesterday at 06:54:59 PM »
As I look at it, it's their property so it's their rules. I'll keep buying the permit because it's close to home and I know a lot of Buddies that also buy the permit. I would like to see them open up the bridge gate side for spring bear.... that would be awesome.

 :yeah: I would definitely put in for kapowsin spring bear if they opened bridge gate

 

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