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Author Topic: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?  (Read 1220 times)

Offline PNW4Life

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Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« on: March 21, 2017, 11:09:10 AM »
Just curious what y'all prefer for black bears. Always fun to learn what others like and what may or may not have worked in the field.
I've got experience with the heavy 150gr Matrix VLD in a 6.5mm Sherman and fat, slow moving 355gr hardcast out of a 44 carbine.
Both of which worked for my needs, but the VLD left a bit to be desired at close range compared to the hardcast. Each bullet left a very dead bear.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 12:14:21 PM by PNW4Life »

Offline h20hunter

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2017, 11:11:56 AM »
Ive only killed two bears...270 win....a 130 gr Interlock and a 150 Barnes.  Neither bear went further than 10 feet. Shot placement,  shot placement, shot placement.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 11:35:22 AM by h20hunter »
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Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2017, 11:43:02 AM »
I've killed bears with arrows, Berger hybrids, nosler ballistic tips, and partitions. All worked just fine. Shoot them in the vitals and they will die.

80 yards with a fast moving 215 Berger was a bit messy but 30 yards with a 260 grain partition made a 1.5 inch wound through and through.

Offline Tikka300wsm

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2017, 12:36:23 PM »
168gr Barnes ttsx has worked great for me! Only one has ran 50 yards..the rest have been DRT.  :tup:

Offline PastorJoel

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2017, 01:46:44 PM »
I have killed two mature bucks over the last two years with Federal Fusion 150 g. 30-06.  In seeing how well they performed, I am planning on using them for black bear.

But, I am open for suggestions, comments, etc.

Certainly, shot placement is key.

Offline PNW4Life

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2017, 02:20:20 PM »
I have killed two mature bucks over the last two years with Federal Fusion 150 g. 30-06.  In seeing how well they performed, I am planning on using them for black bear.

But, I am open for suggestions, comments, etc.

Certainly, shot placement is key.

This fall I'm hoping/planning to run the 181gr Hammer Hunter on everything with my new 300 WSM. I'm fairly certain it will stomp all animals I point it out.
My old 6.5mm shot the 150gr Matrix VLDs accurately and successfully on black bear a few years ago. Just hit them in the boiler room and they will die.

Offline kentrek

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2017, 02:32:38 PM »
I'm not a bear hunter but have shot a few other critters....my experience has led me to beleave lead isn't ment to be pushed super fast....that when it hits and "disintegrates" super fast it doesn't transfer energy as well compared to when it disintegrates at a slower rate....thus why bergers do so well at long range....the hydrostatic shock is greater with the bullet moving slower.....it makes zero sence why a whitetail @ 70 yards can get hit by 200 pluss grain bullet @ over 3200 fps and be able to absorb the blow and trot off compared to a bull elk @ 500 getting rocked by a 185 bullet going much much slower....or the spike elk at 70 yards that trots off almost uninjured with a hand cannon compared to the whitetail @ 70 yards that is hammered by alil ol 7x57 with stupid slow bullets

After being around a few kills it's just what I've noticed, I know bullblaster has a different option and that's cool too...few years ago I would have agreed with him ! But anymore I'm super curious on the bigger slower lead bullets or the coppers....I know lead kills and does so pretty good but curiosity usually gets the best of me  :chuckle:


Offline kentrek

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2017, 02:36:43 PM »
I have killed two mature bucks over the last two years with Federal Fusion 150 g. 30-06.  In seeing how well they performed, I am planning on using them for black bear.

But, I am open for suggestions, comments, etc.

Certainly, shot placement is key.

This fall I'm hoping/planning to run the 181gr Hammer Hunter on everything with my new 300 WSM. I'm fairly certain it will stomp all animals I point it out.
My old 6.5mm shot the 150gr Matrix VLDs accurately and successfully on black bear a few years ago. Just hit them in the boiler room and they will die.

After watching some of the tests Steve is doing I'm going to give hammers ago as well......hopefully going to either do the 299 grain or 331 grain dead blows starting out around 2400 fps.....can't wait to see a whitetail try and walk that off !!

Offline yakimarcher

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2017, 02:39:31 PM »
I use an annealed 140gr hornady sst in my .270, and an annealed 162 gr sst in my 7mm mag for everything.

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2017, 02:46:15 PM »
Black bears are burly everywhere it doesn't count. Meaning they have thin skin and relatively light bones. Shoot whatever works in your rifle for deer and elk.
“Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.”

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2017, 02:48:05 PM »
I'm not a bear hunter but have shot a few other critters....my experience has led me to beleave lead isn't ment to be pushed super fast....that when it hits and "disintegrates" super fast it doesn't transfer energy as well compared to when it disintegrates at a slower rate....thus why bergers do so well at long range....the hydrostatic shock is greater with the bullet moving slower.....it makes zero sence why a whitetail @ 70 yards can get hit by 200 pluss grain bullet @ over 3200 fps and be able to absorb the blow and trot off compared to a bull elk @ 500 getting rocked by a 185 bullet going much much slower....or the spike elk at 70 yards that trots off almost uninjured with a hand cannon compared to the whitetail @ 70 yards that is hammered by alil ol 7x57 with stupid slow bullets

After being around a few kills it's just what I've noticed, I know bullblaster has a different option and that's cool too...few years ago I would have agreed with him ! But anymore I'm super curious on the bigger slower lead bullets or the coppers....I know lead kills and does so pretty good but curiosity usually gets the best of me  :chuckle:
:tup: as long as we're all out there doing what we love and getting the job done I'm good! No denying the monos do what they are supposed to and do it well.

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2017, 02:50:02 PM »
Black bears are burly everywhere it doesn't count. Meaning they have thin skin and relatively light bones. Shoot whatever works in your rifle for deer and elk.
:yeah: seems like they can be some of the easiest animals to kill and some of the hardest at the same time.  :chuckle: sometimes they just die and sometimes they take some convincing.  :chuckle:

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2017, 02:58:24 PM »
350 grain wadcutters out of the .45/70 lies them down very quick. With that gun, I'd prefer a frontal shot or quartering to/away just because I know that bullet is going to keep on going
“Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.”

Offline Giggles

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2017, 03:14:14 PM »
I'm trying a 125 Savora TiCon

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2017, 03:27:44 PM »
A RAD TiCon  8)
“Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.”

Offline kentrek

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2017, 09:35:07 PM »
A RAD TiCon  8)

Rads titanium bullets work the best.....bc off the charts

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2017, 05:08:20 AM »
Oh snap!!!  :tup:

Barrel life - 5 shots
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Offline mountainman

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2017, 07:07:43 AM »
Black bears are burly everywhere it doesn't count. Meaning they have thin skin and relatively light bones. Shoot whatever works in your rifle for deer and elk.
Huh? Alway thought hides were thicker and bones bigger and denser on even small bear compared to big deer? Am I wrong?
And yes, hit them in the right spot, dead bear. Some just don't know it as quickly and travel farther
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Offline mountainman

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2017, 07:08:27 AM »
A RAD TiCon  8)

Rads titanium bullets work the best.....bc off the charts
that's good👍☺
That Sword is more important than the Shield!

Online BLRman

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2017, 07:36:58 AM »
I have very little bear experience.  I've killed one and been in on a few other kills.  I've literally been in on hundreds of dead deer and elk.  The bears always shock me how thin their skin is compared to an old buck or bull.  Projectile into the vitals, type of projectile isn't that important.
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Offline wooltie

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2017, 08:51:07 AM »
Speaking bears specifically--I've only every shot at them but haven't hit one yet. 

People talk about bears being hard to drop--they keep running and running, won't go down, etc.  I think many of these people take out the shoulder purposely or shoot too far forward of the vitals.  A bear's vitals aren't in the pocket behind the shoulder, like a deer's or elk's.  You almost need to aim midway between the front and rear legs to hit the lungs.


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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2017, 09:29:24 AM »
Speaking bears specifically--I've only every shot at them but haven't hit one yet. 

People talk about bears being hard to drop--they keep running and running, won't go down, etc.  I think many of these people take out the shoulder purposely or shoot too far forward of the vitals.  A bear's vitals aren't in the pocket behind the shoulder, like a deer's or elk's.  You almost need to aim midway between the front and rear legs to hit the lungs.

Since you haven't hit one I'm assuming you haven't field dressed one.  I have a few bears under my belt and have helped on others.   Bears have a smaller chest cavity then deer.  If you shoot midway between the front and back legs you may not hit the lungs.   Unless all the bears I have shot we're freaks of nature.   Hold tight to the shoulder 1/3 the way up and you will have a dead bear. 

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2017, 10:03:33 AM »
I've never had an issue center punching the shoulders with a rifle in hand. Bow is tight to the back of the shoulder like anything else.

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2017, 10:09:15 AM »
Black bears are burly everywhere it doesn't count. Meaning they have thin skin and relatively light bones. Shoot whatever works in your rifle for deer and elk.
Huh? Alway thought hides were thicker and bones bigger and denser on even small bear compared to big deer? Am I wrong?
And yes, hit them in the right spot, dead bear. Some just don't know it as quickly and travel farther

Their vertebrae and leg bones are bulky. Thin skin though and ribs like a deer. The actual leather isn't thick at all. Nothing even close to an elk and in most cases, about like a whitetail
“Kindly do not attempt to cloud the issue with too many facts.”

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Re: Copper, VLD or bonded bullet?
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2017, 11:08:41 AM »
I have been using a lot of plain softpoints,But walk in,backcountry hunts these are my go to rounds,I have had deer,bear ,drop , or ten feet with a river of blood,they leave a hole little bigger than a quarter,and u wanna hit the ribs,any where else your making hamburger.They go through and through and hold most of there weight.

 

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