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Author Topic: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.  (Read 6844 times)

Offline chester

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Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« on: March 27, 2017, 01:04:20 PM »
3pt min state wide general season.
Any elk special permit tags for people who are dead set on hunting spikes .
End multi season tags.
Get rid of categories, combine points into a elk draw. All elk points zero whether you draw a cow tag or rut rifle tag.
Limit it too 2 choices and only in your unit.
Still select your weapon.

Borrowing from Idaho split state into regions by herd. You must declare region and only apply for permits in that region

Example split western Washington into 5 regions.
St Helen's
Twin harbors
Puget sound
Olympic peninsula
Nooksack

.........twin harbors would be south of hwy 8 and west of I-5
Olympic peninsula would be everything north of hwy 8.

Eastern WA -
Yakima
Clockum
Blues
North east
Mt Adams

Run general seasons statewide same time.
For example-
Rifle first Saturday in November for 10 days all regions
Muzzy first Saturday in October for 9 days all regions
Archery Saturday following Labor Day for 15 days all regions

This just seems to make more sense in my head to simplify things and spread people out by locking them into an area but more room then just one gmu.



« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 01:17:35 PM by chester »
Dilligaf

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 01:09:08 PM »
Any change has to equal more $ for wdfw by definition.   Reducing draw categories probably doesn't do that ?

Offline HUNTINCOUPLE

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2017, 01:12:38 PM »
To simple. Need to generate more money for the general fund to pay for homeless folks in Seattle.
Gotta  love Idaho!!!!!!!! :IBCOOL:
Slap some bacon on a biscut and lets go, were burrnin daylight!

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Offline chester

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2017, 01:16:02 PM »
Any change has to equal more $ for wdfw by definition.   Reducing draw categories probably doesn't do that ?
What if we made apps $25  instead of $7
Dilligaf

Offline Buzz2401

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2017, 01:28:41 PM »
I personally like the system we have.  There are way more bigger bulls now then there used to be.  Would I like to see less pressure, of course, but that's not going to happen with out going to a 100% draw system.  Would I like to be able to hunt the east side more often for branched antler bulls sure but then the quality would go down and the average size of bulls would go down.  Does it suck having to hunt the unit you want to only for spikes sure.  Your suggestions are almost exactly what it used to be here and it wasn't any better then. 

Offline chester

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2017, 01:36:51 PM »
I personally like the system we have.  There are way more bigger bulls now then there used to be.  Would I like to see less pressure, of course, but that's not going to happen with out going to a 100% draw system.  Would I like to be able to hunt the east side more often for branched antler bulls sure but then the quality would go down and the average size of bulls would go down.  Does it suck having to hunt the unit you want to only for spikes sure.
I guess my theory on that is if you don't kill the spikes they grow to maturity and become big bulls.  :dunno:

If it became permit only, only the rich would be able to afford it and I side with opportunity every time .
I'm 31 and since my parents didn't put me in for tags when I was a kid,  I can't expect a reasonable chance at ever drawing a blues tag in my lifetime . There are many people who never hunted until adulthood.Kids being born today will never catch the point creep in their lives. The permit system is faulty and a detriment to hunting as a whole in my eyes.
Dilligaf

Offline Buzz2401

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2017, 01:40:12 PM »
I agree but there are tons of other great tags besides the clockums and blues.  Success rate would jump for first two years then fall right back to where it is now and the overall quality would drop.  Your system is almost to the tee what we used to have before 1996 I believe was the year.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2017, 01:41:45 PM »
It's nice you put all of that thought into this, but I'd support unit-by-unit changes based on biological data only. Changing the entire state's elk program would be disastrous. No way.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline Buzz2401

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2017, 01:45:35 PM »
The main thing I would like to see changed in this states hunting program is much better predator control.  But until we get the people to get rid of the law banning hounds for cougars, and until we change our current wolf management plan nothing is going to change

Offline Reidus

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2017, 01:46:00 PM »
If it was permit only, you could up the number of bull tags since you wouldn't be killing all the spikes during general season. Still kill the same number of elk, just wait until they're a little older.

I like the idea of going back to just 1 elk category.  Give me a better chance of drawing a bull tag and give the guys that just want a cow tag a better chance of drawing.

Offline Gringo31

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2017, 01:46:11 PM »
Quote
I can't expect a reasonable chance at ever drawing a blues tag in my lifetime . There are many people who never hunted until adulthood.Kids being born today will never catch the point creep in their lives. The permit system is faulty and a detriment to hunting as a whole in my eyes.

Coming up with a system that allows everyone a "reasonable chance" is impossible.  If you jack up the prices, then "everyone" no longer had that chance.  I don't think a change is the answer.  If you want to kill a good bull in general season, do your work and figure out how to catch one of the big bulls within a few miles west of the PCT   :twocents:

Or just keep putting in....."so you're saying there's a chance"
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Offline chester

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2017, 01:47:15 PM »
I agree but there are tons of other great tags besides the clockums and blues.  Success rate would jump for first two years then fall right back to where it is now and the overall quality would drop.  Your system is almost to the tee what we used to have before 1996 I believe was the year.

If I remember correctly antler restrictions were absent from the years prior to 1996. I think the real big difference would be the regions. If you want to put in for the blues you have to hunt the blues. Not get skunked in the drawing and then come back to the clockum.

I think it would greatly increase draw odds for those who wanted to chase trophy elk . Offer more rut hunts. And weed out people who apply in everything because they can.
I don't think overall it would hurt the mature bull elk population but maybe not see them next to the road.

I keep coming back in my mind that the success rates switching to branch antler bulls would be a bit higher or the same if you stopped shooting yearlings.
Dilligaf

Offline chester

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2017, 01:53:25 PM »
Quote
I can't expect a reasonable chance at ever drawing a blues tag in my lifetime . There are many people who never hunted until adulthood.Kids being born today will never catch the point creep in their lives. The permit system is faulty and a detriment to hunting as a whole in my eyes.

Coming up with a system that allows everyone a "reasonable chance" is impossible.  If you jack up the prices, then "everyone" no longer had that chance.  I don't think a change is the answer.  If you want to kill a good bull in general season, do your work and figure out how to catch one of the big bulls within a few miles west of the PCT   :twocents:

Or just keep putting in....."so you're saying there's a chance"

Honestly it possible to give everyone a chance. Eliminate points, you eliminate the points creep.

For the record I've never hunted or applied for the east side . Been pretty content killing raghorns on the wet side .
I just see the whole east side as a carrot the state keeps suckering people into chasing. I'd like to see the resource used to help hunter recruitment and open up opportunities, instead of them using it to leverage money from dissatisfied customers.
Dilligaf

Offline Gringo31

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2017, 02:02:25 PM »
There are many guys who just want one good bull in their lives.  The current model allows for that.  It also splits the state to have 2 total different management types.  You get to pick which way you prefer.....

I don't think the east side wants the elk quality to be reduced to west side numbers.  I'd leave it be.
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Offline chester

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2017, 02:08:14 PM »
There are many guys who just want one good bull in their lives. 

The concern is with point creep many people with go their whole life without drawing that tag. It's on a trend to become an oil tag.

I don't think the east side wants the elk quality to be reduced to west side numbers.  I'd leave it be.

I haven't looked so this is just a guess but I'd venture that Washington has more elk west of the pct than east.
Dilligaf

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2017, 02:26:13 PM »
I actually wouldn't Ming having a couple more elk zones. Make northeast and south east and central and western. You get a tag in there and apply for permits in that zone. I think they could increase season length in northeast that way.

I'd also like to see doing away with drawing for "permits" and shift to drawing for "tags" meaning if you draw a tag that is your season. If you draw a colockum bull tag that's all you get to hunt (can't hunt general season also).

Good ideas here, not that I think WA elk hunting is really all that broken)

Offline chester

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2017, 02:41:26 PM »
Well I killed my own argument,  :bash: just called Wdfw to find out which side has more elk.
Talked with a biologist who was nice enough to answer a pile of questions I had.
I was right about the population St. Helens and willapa hills alone have more elk then all of eastern Washington that's not counting rainier, Olympic peninsula, or the nooksack.

Found out true spike in the clockum is because with the spike only rules no bull elk were living to maturity with spike only.

Mature bulls shorten the rut so the cows drop calves closer together .

3pt min is out for the east side .

Still like the rest of the plan.



Dilligaf

Offline chester

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2017, 02:44:01 PM »


I'd also like to see doing away with drawing for "permits" and shift to drawing for "tags" meaning if you draw a tag that is your season. If you draw a colockum bull tag that's all you get to hunt (can't hunt general season also).

Good ideas here, not that I think WA elk hunting is really all that broken)

I like this idea. So if you draw a special permit you're out of the general hunt? I could get behind that one.
Dilligaf

Offline Bob33

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2017, 02:51:41 PM »
Well I killed my own argument,  :bash: just called Wdfw to find out which side has more elk.
Talked with a biologist who was nice enough to answer a pile of questions I had.
I was right about the population St. Helens and willapa hills alone have more elk then all of eastern Washington that's not counting rainier, Olympic peninsula, or the nooksack.

Found out true spike in the clockum is because with the spike only rules no bull elk were living to maturity with spike only.

Mature bulls shorten the rut so the cows drop calves closer together .

3pt min is out for the east side .

Still like the rest of the plan.
By my math, you are correct.

https://www.hunter-ed.com/washington/studyGuide/Elk-in-Washington/20105001_700046864/


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Offline emac

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2017, 03:07:13 PM »
I would be all for regions as mentioned above. Selected your region and those are the only tags you can apply for and the only areas you can hunt for the general season.

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Offline coachcw

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2017, 04:49:31 PM »
we should go permit only so our tribal brothers will have move trophy bulls to harvest ! :chuckle:
My wife told me that I hunt way more than I did when we first got married. I said yeah I know isn't it great !

Offline chester

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2017, 04:54:04 PM »
we should go permit only so our tribal brothers will have move trophy bulls to harvest ! :chuckle:
It'd be a lot funnier if so many people weren't pushing for that very thing .  :'(
Dilligaf

Offline jstone

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2017, 05:46:35 PM »
Yep, that only help some people. There are lots of issues that need to be dealt with. Permit only wont solve the problem.

Offline kentrek

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2017, 06:00:57 PM »
we should go permit only so our tribal brothers will have move trophy bulls to harvest ! :chuckle:
It'd be a lot funnier if so many people weren't pushing for that very thing .  :'(

They say let's copy Utah ! They have it figured out ! Then later that month they start a thread asking where to go hunting in Idaho...... :bash:

Offline floatinghat

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2017, 08:24:07 PM »


So you could hunt any GMU in the region? 

 

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