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Author Topic: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.  (Read 6843 times)

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2017, 08:28:20 PM »


I'd also like to see doing away with drawing for "permits" and shift to drawing for "tags" meaning if you draw a tag that is your season. If you draw a colockum bull tag that's all you get to hunt (can't hunt general season also).

Good ideas here, not that I think WA elk hunting is really all that broken)

I like this idea. So if you draw a special permit you're out of the general hunt? I could get behind that one.
yep. It would make people think about what permit they apply for. Not sure how it would work with the 638 permit category's we currently have tho.  :tung:

Offline chester

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2017, 08:44:59 PM »


So you could hunt any GMU in the region?

yes all units in that region.
Dilligaf

Offline lhrbull

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2017, 08:52:01 PM »
permit only for any bull elk in your region of choice weapon of your choice

Offline Curly

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2017, 08:53:11 PM »
I seem to remember a time when you had to pick between western wa, se wa, or north central. Seems like it lasted a year or two that way. Maybe the 80's....?
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Offline chester

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2017, 08:55:15 PM »
permit only for any bull elk in your region of choice weapon of your choice
Why do you think permit only would be beneficial to hunting in Washington as a whole?
Dilligaf

Offline High Climber

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2017, 09:27:56 PM »
I don't see WA as having an issue with point creep... There is no units that took say 10 points last year that will take more than 10 this year.  Everyone has a chance, albeit slim, to draw any tag in the state. Guys every year are drawing quality tags with minimal points.  The only change I wouldn't mind seeing is a percentage of the special permits going to the highest point holder 25% maybe, But then we would have point creep :chuckle: I also like Idahos system much better, but WA is too invested in the point system to look back now IMO

Offline rsarkks

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2017, 10:22:47 AM »
Per discussion with biologists and others familiar with the history of lk in the Blues, the spike only restriction is the reason we are now seeing 400" bulls running around those steep canyons. Back in the 90's (before my hunting days so I am going off word only) it was uncommon to find much more than 5 and small 6 points bulls in the area.

At one point the WDFW attempted a spike only restriction around Mt St Helens (90's timeframe) which lasted only one year. Here is a note from the 2001 Mt St Helens Elk Heard Plan:

"In an effort to meet WDFW bull elk survivorship objectives, several any-bull units
(GMUs 505, 516, 520, 550, and 560) were managed under a spike-only, branched
bull by permit harvesting strategy beginning in 1997. The 3-point GMUs (558 and
572) remained 3-pt minimum. Also in 1997, the general firearm season was
shortened from 12 to 9 days. The move to spike-only and the reduction in season
length were designed to determine if bull escapement could be increased. Public
sentiment resulted in the abolishment of spike-only regulations after 1 year. The
spike-only units were changed to 3-pt minimum units thereafter. "

Offline riflehunter

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2017, 08:13:08 AM »
That idea doesn't make sense the bigger bulls are the breeders so want to keep them around. I don't see a huge problem with point system its all luck whether you have put in your whole life or not. I know people that have drawn quality or any bull tags with 4 to 5 points. it can happen just be patient its a better way to get your dream bull but if its a 3pt or better system first few years there will be big ones shot but after that nothing worth noting and herd sizes will go down

Offline Roperfive88

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2017, 12:03:43 PM »
I personally like the system we have.  There are way more bigger bulls now then there used to be.  Would I like to see less pressure, of course, but that's not going to happen with out going to a 100% draw system.  Would I like to be able to hunt the east side more often for branched antler bulls sure but then the quality would go down and the average size of bulls would go down.  Does it suck having to hunt the unit you want to only for spikes sure.
I guess my theory on that is if you don't kill the spikes they grow to maturity and become big bulls.  :dunno:

If it became permit only, only the rich would be able to afford it and I side with opportunity every time .
I'm 31 and since my parents didn't put me in for tags when I was a kid,  I can't expect a reasonable chance at ever drawing a blues tag in my lifetime . There are many people who never hunted until adulthood.Kids being born today will never catch the point creep in their lives. The permit system is faulty and a detriment to hunting as a whole in my eyes.
not enough elk for all the hunters if it wasn't permit for brach bulls the elk herd wouldn't hold up. It's a lottery to have a chance to get a big bull. The herds in the blues can't handle a free for all on branch bulls. Where I elk hunt my camp killed one bull before spike only. We have taken 12 spikes since spike only and we see tons of branch bulls. Elk aren't in the number to be hunted like deer.

Offline Odell

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2017, 04:32:07 AM »
The main thing I would like to see changed in this states hunting program is much better predator control.  But until we get the people to get rid of the law banning hounds for cougars, and until we change our current wolf management plan nothing is going to change

Between predators, poachers and tribal take there isn't much that can be done to improve elk hunting in a state this size.
what in the wild wild world of sports???

Offline cryder

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2017, 06:26:32 AM »
I think you were all born to be master hunters , so get up 430am head out to the local dive diner pull up a chair and start shareing all that stored up logic that makes so much sense , forget all these brilliant ideas and put more focus on what realy matters , the states profit margin and the preservation of there resources, its never about our benifit so oder a omlette and shut off. !!!  But great try !! But anyways now that im here i geuss pancakes are sounding a little better , i had the omlette yesterday .
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 06:34:11 AM by cryder »
loction location location ! perzackly !

Offline Jpmiller

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2017, 08:30:49 AM »
Is the issue being fixed the spike only restriction for the Eastside or something else?

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2017, 09:32:50 AM »
I just was thinking of this yesterday on my drive back from my cabin in the Colockum.

For the past two years they have decided that the herd is over capacity and have given out a ton of cow tags.

Why didn't they try to work out a deal with the tribes to stop bull harvest in the winter?  If they asked the tribes to change their harvest from bulls to cows only in the winter months they would accomplish two things.  They would lower the number of cows and increase the number of bulls.

I believe the theory behind the bull only harvest in the winter is to not take out the baby factory.

This would of course reduce the number of cow tags but should increase the bull to cow ratio and promote better herd health.  It might also mean more bull tags in the future or at least get rid of the "true spike" thing and make it "spike only".

Seems like it would at least be worth having a conversation about.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

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The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline scoutdog346

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2017, 06:41:49 PM »
the system is very good the way it is.  it has meat hunts quality hunts and general bull hunts and general season and multi season.  what more could u ask for.

Offline Roperfive88

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2017, 08:09:09 PM »
I don't see WA as having an issue with point creep... There is no units that took say 10 points last year that will take more than 10 this year.  Everyone has a chance, albeit slim, to draw any tag in the state. Guys every year are drawing quality tags with minimal points.  The only change I wouldn't mind seeing is a percentage of the special permits going to the highest point holder 25% maybe, But then we would have point creep :chuckle: I also like Idahos system much better, but WA is too invested in the point system to look back now IMO

There is no point creep in Washington because we do not have a prefrence point system. All our points do is give more chaces at a low number. Someone drew a blues bull tag with one point last year. Its a lottery there are not enough elk for everyone to get a big bull. To many hunters not enough elk.  Even with a draw only system its not increaseing anyones odds at a big bull. Just look at the blues units in oregon.

Offline Bullkllr

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2017, 09:49:06 PM »
Anyone ever thought of using a higher "multiplier" for points once a certain threshold is reached?

I realize it's not a way to "fix" any situation with elk. But it does seem like it might make sense to give people who have been putting in for special permits for years at least better odds of getting selected.

What I mean is all points are now squared. After say 10 years they could be cubed (or something like that).  :dunno:
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Offline winshooter88

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2017, 12:55:01 AM »
The real problem for elk hunters in Washington is to many hunters and not enough elk, the only way to make any noticeable change is to increase the number of permits given out, you can make all the little changes in who is given tags, ( high point holders vs. everybody else) and you still won't make any real difference. If you make a large increase in the total number of permits given out then you may make a few more people happy. The trouble is the elk herds in this state won't support the increased number of tags needed to make a difference for more than 2-3 years and then the big bulls that people want so badly will be gone and they won't recover until the number of hunters is reduced. As an example, I know someone who works for the WDFW who was asked by some tribal members in the Entiat one day why they couldn't find any big bucks to shoot anymore like there used to be, his answer was simple, when you kill all the big bucks every year for several years then there aren't anymore big bucks to kill, the population will only support so much take before something has to give.

The WDFW is in a position where to survive it's own lack of management it has to make the most money every year that it can on license and tag sales so the idea of going to an all draw season isn't really something they are interested in, they would much rather sell over the counter tags and multiple permit applications so they make the most money that they can. Bear in mind this is not the folks with boots on the ground in WDFW, but the management in Olympia.

The other thing that I haven't seen discussed much is the fact that the population of people in this state is growing rapidly, the last time I heard we have roughly 97 people per square mile in Washington and Idaho is like 19 people per square mile while Montana is more like 13 people per square mile. both Idaho and Montana have much more space for wildlife than Washington does which is part of the reason they have more wildlife and better seasons, up their population to match ours and see how their hunting is then.

The simple fact is that there isn't any easy solution for what is going on with wildlife in our state,  more predator control would help some but in reality it still wouldn't be enough to overcome all the problems that the hunting public feels we have in this state. Just my opinion.

Offline King Krok

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2017, 01:27:45 PM »
I believe one thing would help if they took for example a unit that has 15tags out of those 15tags give 10 to the applicant that has 15 or more points and the rest to the applicants that have less then 15. And once u draw one of those tags u have to wait like 2-5yrs before u can apply for said hunt again. U can still collect points, just can't apply for that unit until you've waited. There are a lot of applicants that draw those tags with 2-8 pts, and a guy like myself that has 20 can't seem to draw. Other states have a preference point system where u draw after you have a certain amount of points.  I realize it's a random draw, but this carrot the WDFW is holding out for the points isn't working. Just my opinion.


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Offline Curly

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2017, 01:36:33 PM »
Complaints from guys with tons of points is how we ended up with this stupid category system.  :bdid:
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Offline Rainier10

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2017, 01:55:52 PM »
In reality I think they should quit multiplying the points it is worsening my chances every year and I have 15 in most categories.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline bobcat

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2017, 02:09:24 PM »
A preference point system is a good idea for states that don't have any over the counter tags. For us, I think our random draw bonus point system is working just fine. You don't need to draw a special permit in order to hunt. Any change that would favor high point holders over new hunters is 100% opposite of the direction we need to go, IMO. Don't give new hunters even less reason to becoming involved in hunting.

Offline Rainier10

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2017, 02:51:06 PM »
I bet there are 35 plus states that would love to have the OTC elk opportunity that we have here.  What are there 9-12 states in the country that have OTC elk hunting for residents?
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline Jpmiller

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2017, 06:24:00 PM »
Maybe I'm delusional but I think Washington elk hunting is s pretty good deal. I have a shot every year of drawing s really good bull tag and if I don't draw I can still hunt. I can go after some prime units with tons of public lands on the Eastside and Chase spikes if I don't draw or play it safer on the westside and if I don't draw still hunt bulls.

We don't and probably can't have elk herds like the Rocky mountain states because we don't have the same habitat and winter range as they do.

Elk hunting is not a sure thing and no matter how limited entry you make it drawing a tag might give you a chance at less pressured elk but they still won't be running up to your truck bugling their heads off. Being a Washington resident doesn't make you entitled to an elk and buying a tag doesn't either.

Given the cards we have been dealt I think we have it pretty good. Sure it can be better but I really don't see how reducing hunting opportunities makes any sense. Has giving ground ever worked before?

Offline CarbonHunter

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2017, 07:25:24 PM »
Anyone ever thought of using a higher "multiplier" for points once a certain threshold is reached?

I realize it's not a way to "fix" any situation with elk. But it does seem like it might make sense to give people who have been putting in for special permits for years at least better odds of getting selected.

What I mean is all points are now squared. After say 10 years they could be cubed (or something like that).  :dunno:

This was proposed the last time they tried to change the system in response to a convoluted mess that the state proposed in order to help people with high points draw tags.

Next year they are planning on making "major changes" as it will be the 3 year rule making session and there will not be any budgetary restrictions on state rule making.  I'm curious as to what they are planning as they had a pretty large reduction in permits this year and if they continue next year who knows what we will be left with. 

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Idea to fix WA elk hunting.
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2017, 08:54:01 PM »
Anyone ever thought of using a higher "multiplier" for points once a certain threshold is reached?

I realize it's not a way to "fix" any situation with elk. But it does seem like it might make sense to give people who have been putting in for special permits for years at least better odds of getting selected.

What I mean is all points are now squared. After say 10 years they could be cubed (or something like that).  :dunno:

This was proposed the last time they tried to change the system in response to a convoluted mess that the state proposed in order to help people with high points draw tags.

Next year they are planning on making "major changes" as it will be the 3 year rule making session and there will not be any budgetary restrictions on state rule making.  I'm curious as to what they are planning as they had a pretty large reduction in permits this year and if they continue next year who knows what we will be left with.
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