collapse
Double U Hunting Supply Extreme Elk Magazine

Author Topic: Just got to thinking... why?  (Read 3364 times)

Online Mfowl

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 1726
  • Location: westside
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2017, 12:39:01 PM »
Seriously? We are failing? How? Because we support regulating ourselves in such a way as to preserve our elk populations in Washington state? Do we really want everyone to have a multiple season elk tag? Supporting such a thing is supporting the team? Really? If so then I guess I don't support the "team" and I never will.

I agree with this. Just because I am at odds with others on this issue does not mean that I do not or will not support other hunting groups. As I stated previously, I own a bow. I've hunted with it and will continue to in the future. What bothers me is that a user group in a state where things aren't great for everyone, IMO, has the best opportunities yet isn't happy with them. On top of that, wants to complain openly about it and blame the other side for their rebuttals. I am a hunter, just give me a reason, bow, rifle, ML, fun, food or lifestyle. Sign me up.
Fish hard, hunt harder!

Offline dreamingbig

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 2102
  • Location: Mukilteo, WA
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2017, 04:13:14 PM »
All the fighting would make sense if I was suggesting subtracting from other opportunities or user groups.  I wasn't.  I was suggesting adding 5 days for archery branch antlered permit holders without subtraction.

We should all be on the same team and support hunting.  Which is why the MF and Muzzleloader guys SHOULD support this change! 😎


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
@mukbowhunt
Avid Bowhunter
Maxxis 35 / Trykon XL

Offline snake

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 185
  • Location: Washington
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2017, 05:09:25 PM »
By the way, one of the main reasons the archery season was pushed back was because there was too many animals spoiling.  Temps in early september can be into the 90's in some areas.  This decision was made from feedback from multiple groups including numerous butcher shops processing wild game.  Get your facts straight.

Online DIYARCHERYJUNKIE

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 2850
  • Location: hoodcanal
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2017, 05:21:09 PM »
What I said before- the other states have more elk and less people, and even more importantly much more elk habitat AND public land that is open to hunting. I'll ask this- does California have more or less elk hunting opportunity than us?

Oh yeah they are hurting so bad out east for elk habitat and public land... not enough areas to ride the quad...   :dunno:  there's plenty of elk and plenty of public land WHERE wdfw didn't let the property owners double dip on tax breaks and charge us for land that had already had access guaranteed.  Now, you can hunt a bull on the westside if you pay for access too. Or you can hunt a bull every eight or so years out east...  but the spike and cow opportunitys...  wdfw bent over for big timber and then put our hunting in the can.  Our state need a system identical to idahos. We must not have enough elk...  give me a break. More like they can't capitalize monetarily on the elk if they don't sell us wish hunts every year.  Or there not smart enough to do math and charge what needs to be charged to generate the same amount of revenue from general tags. 

Offline NW SURVEYOR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2016
  • Posts: 135
  • Location: ENUMCLAW
  • Groups: RMEF NRA
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2017, 05:35:49 PM »
So I have elected to eat my lunch slowly and therefore want a longer lunch hour.  You guys go back to work and I will be along shortly.
I'm habitually late and want the same raise that the punctual guys got.

I gotta say, I have never heard such persistent whining in my life.
Dreaminbig, did you get beat up a lot in school?

Again, life is not fair.

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 32867
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2017, 06:14:21 PM »
What we're lacking in this state is winter range for elk. It's been converted to farms, orchards, and subdivisions. You can't tell me other western states don't have more and better quality elk habitat, and especially winter range.

Offline dreamingbig

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 2102
  • Location: Mukilteo, WA
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2017, 07:12:15 PM »
NW Surveyor - read the thread. Mine has all been above the belt.  No insults or name calling here.  Other folks have chimed in and started throwing stones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
@mukbowhunt
Avid Bowhunter
Maxxis 35 / Trykon XL

Offline JimmyHoffa

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 8858
  • Location: 150 Years Too Late
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2017, 07:40:34 PM »
So, advocating for a way to make one user group more successful.  Then something has to be given up to maintain allocation.  A slice of general season?  Other permits?  Spike becomes true spike?  If not, then just trying to take allocation from other groups.

Online Mfowl

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 1726
  • Location: westside
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2017, 07:49:37 PM »
How about if early general archery elk season gets shortened from 13 to 10 days except for bull tag holders who get those 3 days for their quality tags. If you want something that bad make the sacrifice from your own season.


So, advocating for a way to make one user group more successful.  Then something has to be given up to maintain allocation.  A slice of general season?  Other permits?  Spike becomes true spike?  If not, then just trying to take allocation from other groups.

 :yeah:
Fish hard, hunt harder!

Offline Reidus

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 467
  • Location: Tri-Cities
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2017, 08:01:38 PM »
Why is it that rifle hunters gripe about muzzleloader and archery seasons and muzzleloaders gripe about the others...archery hunters gripe about getting the short end of the stick.  Use a different weapon if you don't  like it. :twocents:

Offline Jpmiller

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 630
  • Location: Wilkeson
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2017, 09:06:39 PM »
What we're lacking in this state is winter range for elk. It's been converted to farms, orchards, and subdivisions. You can't tell me other western states don't have more and better quality elk habitat, and especially winter range.

This was always the impression I was given as well by bios and people I considered in the know. The problem in Washington isn't out spring summer fall capacities but our ability to sustain a herd through the winter. I don't know all the science behind it but have heard it from multiple people I consider credible.

That being said I think all the seasons have benefits over the others in certain areas and that someone who puts in the time and effort has a reasonable shot at being successful   

Offline dreamingbig

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 2102
  • Location: Mukilteo, WA
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2017, 10:19:37 PM »
So, advocating for a way to make one user group more successful.  Then something has to be given up to maintain allocation.  A slice of general season?  Other permits?  Spike becomes true spike?  If not, then just trying to take allocation from other groups.
Did you read the whole thread or the original post?  This is about the branch antlered bull permits only.  Pretty small group overall.  Much less than the modern firearm numbers given the allocation formula.  It is not additional tags only additional days for the few lucky ones who draw a tag.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
@mukbowhunt
Avid Bowhunter
Maxxis 35 / Trykon XL

Offline JimmyHoffa

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 8858
  • Location: 150 Years Too Late
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2017, 10:32:16 PM »
So, advocating for a way to make one user group more successful.  Then something has to be given up to maintain allocation.  A slice of general season?  Other permits?  Spike becomes true spike?  If not, then just trying to take allocation from other groups.
Did you read the whole thread or the original post?  This is about the branch antlered bull permits only.  Pretty small group overall.  Much less than the modern firearm numbers given the allocation formula.  It is not additional tags only additional days for the few lucky ones who draw a tag.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep.  And what do you want the WDFW/bios to do when the harvest success goes up by X% on bulls taken by those permits?  Cut back on permit numbers or in the general?

Online Mfowl

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 1726
  • Location: westside
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2017, 10:49:17 PM »
By the way, one of the main reasons the archery season was pushed back was because there was too many animals spoiling.  Temps in early september can be into the 90's in some areas.  This decision was made from feedback from multiple groups including numerous butcher shops processing wild game.  Get your facts straight.

It was actually the WSB who led the charge for season changes, lighted nocks and expandable broadheads. Below is an excerpt from a 2013 issue of WSB magazine. Which is also shortly before the WDFW had their open comment period for the last season setting process.

Our number one goal for next
season is to push the WDFW to hard
set our elk season from September
8-21. My personal goal is to stop
fighting hard to get back seasons
that we lose, and start fighting for
additional seasons and opportunity
for bowhunters. Since Iíve been
a member of the WSB, it seems
we are continually fighting the
WDFW to not take our seasons and
opportunity or trying to get back
lost opportunity. We now need to
focus on getting new opportunity so
our units arenít as crowded causing
conflict among bow-hunters.
At the recent WDFW
Commission meetings WSB
expressed approval for the lighted
nock. Itís been a long road and
everything that is going to be said
on this issue has been said. At the end of the day,
the vast majority of our membership supported an
exception to the general rule of no electronics on a
bow. We balanced that interest with all of our users
and issued support for the measure. The Commission
voted to approve the use of lighted nocks for the
upcoming season. This has been the most divisive
issue Iíve faced in my time at the WSB. Iím hoping
we can put this issue to rest and continue to focus on
seasons and opportunity.

Fish hard, hunt harder!

Offline dreamingbig

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 2102
  • Location: Mukilteo, WA
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2017, 11:04:00 PM »
So, advocating for a way to make one user group more successful.  Then something has to be given up to maintain allocation.  A slice of general season?  Other permits?  Spike becomes true spike?  If not, then just trying to take allocation from other groups.
Did you read the whole thread or the original post?  This is about the branch antlered bull permits only.  Pretty small group overall.  Much less than the modern firearm numbers given the allocation formula.  It is not additional tags only additional days for the few lucky ones who draw a tag.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep.  And what do you want the WDFW/bios to do when the harvest success goes up by X% on bulls taken by those permits?  Cut back on permit numbers or in the general?
Zero.  Impact will be minimal.  They didn't take away days or permits from modern when they added the 5 day rut hunts in September.

Heck if money is what they want then charge an extra $50 for the archery tag if drawn for the extra 5 days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
@mukbowhunt
Avid Bowhunter
Maxxis 35 / Trykon XL

Online Mfowl

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 1726
  • Location: westside
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2017, 11:13:35 PM »
So, advocating for a way to make one user group more successful.  Then something has to be given up to maintain allocation.  A slice of general season?  Other permits?  Spike becomes true spike?  If not, then just trying to take allocation from other groups.
Did you read the whole thread or the original post?  This is about the branch antlered bull permits only.  Pretty small group overall.  Much less than the modern firearm numbers given the allocation formula.  It is not additional tags only additional days for the few lucky ones who draw a tag.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep.  And what do you want the WDFW/bios to do when the harvest success goes up by X% on bulls taken by those permits?  Cut back on permit numbers or in the general?
Zero.  Impact will be minimal.  They didn't take away days or permits from modern when they added the 5 day rut hunts in September.

Heck if money is what they want then charge an extra $50 for the archery tag if drawn for the extra 5 days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let's clarify, which rifle bull hunts are you upset about. September hunts are considered quality hunts and the odds on them are not far below OIL tags. November hunts, with the 14 day season you keep referring to are bull tag hunts. Archery has quality tags and bull tags as well. Some archery bull tags are or atleast were late season tags as in the case of the Teanaway tags. Your quality tags are during the rut just like rifles quality tags.
I would also like to point out that the draw odds for archery tags are far better than rifle tags. A guy is lucky to get more than 1 or 2 chances to hunt Eastside bulls in a lifetime with a rifle. An archery hunter could realistically pull 5x that many in a lifetime. The odds appear to me to be in your favor.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 11:51:16 PM by Mfowl »
Fish hard, hunt harder!

Online DIYARCHERYJUNKIE

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 2850
  • Location: hoodcanal
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2017, 03:11:15 AM »
But how many of the archery tags are filled compared to rifle permits. They give out less rifle permits cause the odds the rifle permits gets filled is substantially greater.  Most of the archery permits go un filled .

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 32867
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2017, 07:35:59 AM »
Such a simple solution- if you think the rifle permits are better than the archery permits, apply for the rifle permits. Everyone can make that choice every year. I do. I've hunted all three, archery, muzzleloader, and rifle. I usually pick the one that fits my schedule best each year. The last few years my priority has been Wyoming hunts. So for elk hunting in Washington I pick the season that conflicts the least with my hunt or hunts in Wyoming.

Online Mfowl

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 1726
  • Location: westside
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2017, 07:41:13 AM »
But how many of the archery tags are filled compared to rifle permits. They give out less rifle permits cause the odds the rifle permits gets filled is substantially greater.  Most of the archery permits go un filled .

Are you a hunter? Do you need WDFW to tie a bull to a tree for you? If you just want to fill your tag go to one of those ranches in Texas that are pay to play. You chose the hard way, the caveat is, you might not fill your tag. For a rifle guy, the caveat is, you may not draw a tag. Your not the only user group with challenges to face. I had a ML quality bull tag once, I didn't even see a branch bull or hear a bugle during my entire season. I shot a spike with that tag in my pocket on day 5 and I had several days to hunt prior to the general season. All you get is a chance. You want a guarantee, go hunt a high fence ranch.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 02:17:24 PM by Mfowl »
Fish hard, hunt harder!

Online 700xcr

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Apr 2008
  • Posts: 338
  • Location: Kennewick,Wa.
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2017, 07:59:45 AM »
Cow  modern you only have 5 days of hunting. In the past I have eaten 2 cow tags and that is the way it is. It is called hunting not shooting. I have eaten several general modern spike tags too! I don't complain about it as I enjoy being out in the outdoors. If I do fill a tag I consider it a bonus. That is hunting. :twocents:
Nothing like a Remington model 700xcr.

Online DIYARCHERYJUNKIE

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 2850
  • Location: hoodcanal
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2017, 11:59:07 AM »
I never complained about rifle anything...  I simply stated we should have the same as Idaho has for elk. Calling names and trying to pin my style against yours make you look pathetic. You are desperate for an argument and I have none. Don't think we need longer permits. Never said we did. Just pointing out how rediculous you sound trying to pick a fight with the other user groups.

Online Mfowl

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 1726
  • Location: westside
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2017, 02:29:18 PM »
I never complained about rifle anything...  I simply stated we should have the same as Idaho has for elk. Calling names and trying to pin my style against yours make you look pathetic. You are desperate for an argument and I have none. Don't think we need longer permits. Never said we did. Just pointing out how rediculous you sound trying to pick a fight with the other user groups.

My apologies! It was not you specifically I was calling pathetic but more the "handicap"some bowhunters (IMO) seem to feel they deserve for choosing a difficult style of hunting. I provided info to this thread to refute suggestions of inaccuracies and crooked facts and to let others draw their own conclusions. I am not a hunter hater nor do I wish to divide user groups. Please scour my posting history and you will find I am predominantly a positive member of this site not an internet troll looking for a fight.

This concludes my participation in this thread. I hope you draw the tag you are after this season subsequently followed by the hunt of a lifetime! Whichever weapon you choose to hunt with. Peace in the middle East! Make Love not War!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 03:57:45 PM by Mfowl »
Fish hard, hunt harder!

Offline snake

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 185
  • Location: Washington
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2017, 05:43:28 PM »
By the way, one of the main reasons the archery season was pushed back was because there was too many animals spoiling.  Temps in early september can be into the 90's in some areas.  This decision was made from feedback from multiple groups including numerous butcher shops processing wild game.  Get your facts straight.

It was actually the WSB who led the charge for season changes, lighted nocks and expandable broadheads. Below is an excerpt from a 2013 issue of WSB magazine. Which is also shortly before the WDFW had their open comment period for the last season setting process.

Our number one goal for next
season is to push the WDFW to hard
set our elk season from September
8-21. My personal goal is to stop
fighting hard to get back seasons
that we lose, and start fighting for
additional seasons and opportunity
for bowhunters. Since Iíve been
a member of the WSB, it seems
we are continually fighting the
WDFW to not take our seasons and
opportunity or trying to get back
lost opportunity. We now need to
focus on getting new opportunity so
our units arenít as crowded causing
conflict among bow-hunters.
At the recent WDFW
Commission meetings WSB
expressed approval for the lighted
nock. Itís been a long road and
everything that is going to be said
on this issue has been said. At the end of the day,
the vast majority of our membership supported an
exception to the general rule of no electronics on a
bow. We balanced that interest with all of our users
and issued support for the measure. The Commission
voted to approve the use of lighted nocks for the
upcoming season. This has been the most divisive
issue Iíve faced in my time at the WSB. Iím hoping
we can put this issue to rest and continue to focus on
seasons and opportunity.
[/quote
Thank you for this.  :dunno: Still not why they changed the season.  2016 Sept 10th.  2017 9th. 2018 Sept 8, 2019 Sept 7, 2020 Sept 5th.  Every year  the Saturday gets 1 calendar day sooner.  So in a few years they will have to push it back again for the same reason. 

Offline NW SURVEYOR

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2016
  • Posts: 135
  • Location: ENUMCLAW
  • Groups: RMEF NRA
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2017, 06:52:00 PM »
I just got to thinking about this thread and I offer up this thought.
There is a significantly more amount of daylight available in September than there is I'm November.  Over the period of 12 days I would guess that the actual amount of time available to hunt would more than make up for the one day difference that our bowhunting friends are crying about.  Of course this would need to be broken down to hours, but time in the field is relative to time in the field.  Every day cannot be Opening Day.
I therefore suggest that we finance a detailed study to determine how many days should be taken from the BHers and reassigned to the modem firearm hunters.
In lieu of this I suggest you quit whining and go practice bugling, shooting and get in shape.
I'll bet whoever started this thread wishes they hadn't.
Oh yeah, I just greased my boots, good for me.
Later,
Rob.

Offline dreamingbig

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 2102
  • Location: Mukilteo, WA
Re: Just got to thinking... why?
« Reply #74 on: April 13, 2017, 09:56:27 AM »
I started it and have no regrets.  I also didn't whine just offered a few facts. As to the rest you mentioned it is a year round thing for me.  Always in shape, always scouting and always shooting.

Sorry to hit a sore spot with you.  If was interesting to see how quick folks resorted to name calling and rude comments.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
@mukbowhunt
Avid Bowhunter
Maxxis 35 / Trykon XL

 

ElkNut Outdoor Productions