collapse
Double U Hunting Supply Trophy Bucks and Bulls

Author Topic: Most points without a draw??  (Read 8851 times)

Offline andrew_in_idaho

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 681
  • Location: Nampa, ID
  • Groups: RMEF
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2017, 06:40:34 AM »
NR special pernits are limited to 10% or less in most states so your odds aren't always better. Now idaho residents have pretty good odds at some good tags! I bet there's quite a few tags in idaho that are better than washington quality hunts and easier to draw, even as a NR.
I don't like to spread this word too much but my odds of drawing a sheep tag in most units are better than drawing most of the premium deer, elk or really any buck antelope tags here in Idaho as a resident.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline smoon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 6
  • Location: SWWA
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2017, 02:57:04 PM »
My brother and I put in for the same quality elk hunt, I had 25 points and he had 20.... He drew the tag and I didn't. I am going on the hunt with him so I am pretty excited even though once again I cannot draw a damn thing.

Offline theleo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Posts: 832
  • Location: Kennewick
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2017, 03:42:22 PM »
NR special pernits are limited to 10% or less in most states so your odds aren't always better. Now idaho residents have pretty good odds at some good tags! I bet there's quite a few tags in idaho that are better than washington quality hunts and easier to draw, even as a NR.
I don't like to spread this word too much but my odds of drawing a sheep tag in most units are better than drawing most of the premium deer, elk or really any buck antelope tags here in Idaho as a resident.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As long as you're willing to forgo applying for any deer, elk, or antelope tags in your state until you kill your sheep.

Offline kevinlisa06

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 957
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2017, 07:15:27 PM »
We started putting in for permits at the beginning and my Dad has yet to draw a Bull tag yet. We draw Cow tags bout every 3-4 years.

Offline NRA4LIFE

  • Site Sponsor
  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 3864
  • Groups: NRA
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2017, 07:48:36 PM »
14 and still haven't drawn a bull or quality tag. 
Look man, some times you just gotta roll the dice

So many free days, so few fish....

Offline Duckslayer89

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 2706
  • Location: Orting
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2017, 08:04:15 PM »
Poacher points are stupid! Give them a reward or something not a leg up on the rest of us trying to draw playing their game

Offline winshooter88

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 695
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2017, 09:57:17 PM »
People on here talk like their high point totals should insure that they draw their preferred hard to draw tag choice, but the simple fact is that the Washington draw system is a lottery, all you get for your points is more tickets in the draw, no guaranteed draws like preference point systems, it is strictly the "LUCK" of the draw. Only 2 ways to fix the system at all, 1. Less names in the draw, 2. more tags available.






Edit for spelling.

Offline Brushbuster

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 513
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #32 on: July 02, 2017, 10:29:02 PM »
People on here talk like their high point totals should insure that they draw their preferred hard to draw tag choice, but the simple fact is that the Washington draw system is a lottery, all you get for your points is more tickets in the draw, no guaranteed draws like preference point systems, it is strictly the "LUCK" of the draw. Only 2 ways to fix the system at all, 1. Less names in the draw, 2. more tags available.

Edit for spelling.

There is a 3rd way similar to what Oregon, Utah, Colorado, & Wyoming does is give the tags to the people with the most points.  :tup:  :chuckle:

Offline winshooter88

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 695
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2017, 12:29:28 AM »
Actually, that doesn't work, when the GMAC group looked at the points system a couple years ago that was one of the ideas, but with the limited amount of tags available overall and the number of people in the "high point category" giving a percentage, say 25% of the available tags to the highest point holders would just be a feel good move as they already draw that amount or more in most draws. Plus the fact that people enter the group faster than they go out of it even if you gave 50% to the high point holders the group would only keep getting larger. This would also be unfair to the people just getting started because they would have even less chance of drawing any special tags in the system.  :bdid:

Offline Brushbuster

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 513
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2017, 07:37:16 AM »
Actually, that doesn't work, when the GMAC group looked at the points system a couple years ago that was one of the ideas, but with the limited amount of tags available overall and the number of people in the "high point category" giving a percentage, say 25% of the available tags to the highest point holders would just be a feel good move as they already draw that amount or more in most draws. Plus the fact that people enter the group faster than they go out of it even if you gave 50% to the high point holders the group would only keep getting larger. This would also be unfair to the people just getting started because they would have even less chance of drawing any special tags in the system.  :bdid:

The people just getting started? Many of those people have drawn a tag & are starting over with no points. I've drawn the quality Bull tag three times! How is that fair to someone setting there with 22 points who has never drawn?  Everyone should have their first tag before someone gets a second one. That's fair.

Offline X-Force

  • Solo Hunter
  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 3489
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2017, 08:52:54 AM »
Actually, that doesn't work, when the GMAC group looked at the points system a couple years ago that was one of the ideas, but with the limited amount of tags available overall and the number of people in the "high point category" giving a percentage, say 25% of the available tags to the highest point holders would just be a feel good move as they already draw that amount or more in most draws. Plus the fact that people enter the group faster than they go out of it even if you gave 50% to the high point holders the group would only keep getting larger. This would also be unfair to the people just getting started because they would have even less chance of drawing any special tags in the system.  :bdid:

The people just getting started? Many of those people have drawn a tag & are starting over with no points. I've drawn the quality Bull tag three times! How is that fair to someone setting there with 22 points who has never drawn?  Everyone should have their first tag before someone gets a second one. That's fair.

Its pretty easy to say its fair. obviously the person with 22 points is putting in for extremely hard to draw permits.

Since 2010 you have drawn quality bull? pm me what unit please!
Groupie:                                                Podcast:
RMEF                                                     Gritty Bowmen
NRA                                                       Full Draw Full Time
SCI                                                        The Hunt Backcountry
Backcountry Hunters and Anglers            MeatEater
                                                             Hunt Talk Radio

Online bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 34147
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2017, 09:01:17 AM »
Some people apply only for the hunts with impossible odds of drawing. That's why in 22 years they have never drawn a special permit.

Offline andrew_in_idaho

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 681
  • Location: Nampa, ID
  • Groups: RMEF
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2017, 09:47:54 AM »
NR special pernits are limited to 10% or less in most states so your odds aren't always better. Now idaho residents have pretty good odds at some good tags! I bet there's quite a few tags in idaho that are better than washington quality hunts and easier to draw, even as a NR.
I don't like to spread this word too much but my odds of drawing a sheep tag in most units are better than drawing most of the premium deer, elk or really any buck antelope tags here in Idaho as a resident.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As long as you're willing to forgo applying for any deer, elk, or antelope tags in your state until you kill your sheep.

I applied for sheep this year, I didn't draw but I also have an any bull elk tag, 2 deer tags and an antelope tag, and may end up with a 3rd deer tag if I want to spend the bucks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline G-S

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Jun 2017
  • Posts: 55
  • Location: Lewiston Id
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2017, 12:08:48 PM »
How did you get an antelope tag if you put in for sheep

Offline Roperfive88

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 247
  • Location: Eastern Washington
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2017, 12:33:50 PM »
Actually, that doesn't work, when the GMAC group looked at the points system a couple years ago that was one of the ideas, but with the limited amount of tags available overall and the number of people in the "high point category" giving a percentage, say 25% of the available tags to the highest point holders would just be a feel good move as they already draw that amount or more in most draws. Plus the fact that people enter the group faster than they go out of it even if you gave 50% to the high point holders the group would only keep getting larger. This would also be unfair to the people just getting started because they would have even less chance of drawing any special tags in the system.  :bdid:

The people just getting started? Many of those people have drawn a tag & are starting over with no points. I've drawn the quality Bull tag three times! How is that fair to someone setting there with 22 points who has never drawn?  Everyone should have their first tag before someone gets a second one. That's fair.

"Everyone should have their first tag before someone gets a second one. That's fair."  This is an impossible to fulfill statements even if this were done there would be people that would never draw under this thinking. People need to quit thinking that it is a right to draw a premium tag because I have been applying forever and have some points. It is not possible for everyone.

Offline DOUBLELUNG

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 4694
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2017, 12:46:04 PM »
The Washington point system is false hope.  The only way point systems work is if there are enough tags to cycle all the applicants through, e.g. Wyoming, where there are only a handful of big game units where point creep will occur indefinitely.  Otherwise, over the long run, whether preference points or bonus points, the average age of successful applicants will get older and older, until the maximum "applicant lifetime" is exceeded by the age of the system.  I figure applicant lifetime is around 50 years or less, as most hunters hunt less than 50 years over a lifetime.

If the odds to draw are less than 2%, there is no logical reason to expect to draw a permit over a lifetime no matter how many points you have.  At least with the Washington special permits lottery, your odds increase the longer you play, but it's still a lottery.  When we had just one category per species, a hunter could decide to put in for meat, a less crowded but not great easy to draw permit, or to hold out for long odds.  Now that we have four different categories, we get to spend four times as much for what are now much more lotteries in all categories.  The easier the hunt you put in for was to draw under the one per species option, the more screwed you got with the multiple categories.     
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline wheels

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 920
  • Location: pacific washington
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2017, 02:09:25 PM »
12 pts quality elk

Offline andrew_in_idaho

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 681
  • Location: Nampa, ID
  • Groups: RMEF
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2017, 06:12:26 PM »
How did you get an antelope tag if you put in for sheep
Unlimited archery


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline G-S

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Jun 2017
  • Posts: 55
  • Location: Lewiston Id
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2017, 07:34:48 PM »
Forgot about the unlimited tags

Offline 300ack

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 5
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2017, 11:41:34 PM »
3 branch bulls in 8 years, no quality bull tag, Hmmmm

Offline zwickeyman

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 322
  • Location: Puyallup
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2017, 05:26:30 AM »
This year I had 20 pts for Goat
19 for Sheep
19 for Moose

I honestly believe I will never draw an oil but I'm going to keep trying

Offline TD3939

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2017
  • Posts: 6
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2017, 07:47:31 PM »
22 points for quality and Bull.  I hate this state and everything about the way they do business.  I hate everything here but the Seahawks and even Richard Shermans starting to piss me off. 

Offline Duckslayer89

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2014
  • Posts: 2706
  • Location: Orting
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2017, 02:20:10 PM »
22 points for quality and Bull.  I hate this state and everything about the way they do business.  I hate everything here but the Seahawks and even Richard Shermans starting to piss me off.

 :chuckle:  :chuckle:  :chuckle:

Offline highside74

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 1273
  • Location: Eatonville wa
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2017, 05:01:15 PM »
22 points for quality and Bull.  I hate this state and everything about the way they do business.  I hate everything here but the Seahawks and even Richard Shermans starting to piss me off.

Preach it

Offline jeffitz

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 170
  • Location: SW WA
Re: Most points without a draw??
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2017, 08:22:58 AM »
We all just get our hopes up too much ! I have been trying to train myself to stop getting excited for them, although i did draw multiseason elk this year with 8 pts, i did not draw anything else.Still gonna be a fun year though since my buddy drew Goose Prairie bull ! He had one less point than me so he drew Lol!
If you're gonna be dumb,you gotta be tough.

 

ElkNut Outdoor Productions

* Recent Topics

Marine mammals now taking more salmon than sport and commercial fishing combined by Sitka_Blacktail
[Today at 03:50:25 AM]


New F 150 Diesels by Miles
[Today at 03:04:26 AM]


Roasted Soybeans by cryder
[Today at 02:16:55 AM]


WTS: Vortex Diamondback HP 4-16x42 BDC scope by biggfish
[Today at 01:27:41 AM]


WTS: Tikka T3 lite in 260 Rem. by JeffRaines
[Yesterday at 11:48:04 PM]


Poachers - Man, this one takes the cake! by KFhunter
[Yesterday at 11:10:46 PM]


Anybody breeding meat rabbit? by KFhunter
[Yesterday at 10:39:17 PM]


School Me on Duck/Goose Hunting by lokidog
[Yesterday at 10:36:37 PM]


Pig Feeder... Ideas? by Boss .300 winmag
[Yesterday at 10:23:24 PM]


The Bundy Trial: When Justice Fails by KFhunter
[Yesterday at 10:19:30 PM]


Input on Browning x-bolt hells canyon by Hot Lunch
[Yesterday at 10:19:03 PM]


Blacktail food plot by lokidog
[Yesterday at 10:12:29 PM]


WTB RUGER 678G KMKII GOVERNMENT by wadu1
[Yesterday at 10:08:17 PM]


Quality barrel question by Eric M
[Yesterday at 10:03:52 PM]


WTS outdoorsman micro pan head by WAcoueshunter
[Yesterday at 09:26:03 PM]


Shot out my 243 by carpsniperg2
[Yesterday at 09:03:58 PM]


6.5 Creedmoor or 7mm-08 by mountainman
[Yesterday at 08:59:17 PM]


Hoyt bow raffle for fallen officer Daniel McCartney’s family by Fastass350
[Yesterday at 08:48:38 PM]


Asotin County Coyotes by Jerry malbeck
[Yesterday at 08:30:04 PM]


One awesome breakfast sausage recipe by Jason
[Yesterday at 07:52:55 PM]