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Poll

Poll: What is your ideal shot placement on broadside deer at 100 yards assuming w/300 win mag?

Heart/lungs
Double shoulder hit
Spine
Neck
Head

Author Topic: Shot Placement Poll  (Read 3683 times)

Online kselkhunter

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Shot Placement Poll
« on: July 06, 2017, 09:23:54 PM »
Hi all, being the middle of summer and killing time during the week I thought I'd put up a poll to collect numbers on a topic I've always wondered about.  Mule Deer, assume large 200lbs buck.  Broadside at 100 yards.  Assume you have the scope to zoom in close, say a Swarovski Z5 5-25x52 (as I have one and know you can zoom quite well at that range).  Assume a high BC bullet from a 300 win mag (168g, 190g, etc.) so plenty flat trajectory and energy.  And assume accurate rifle, 1 MOA or less at 100yds.  And no perceptible wind. 

Which placement have you done the most, or would you do as ideal real world shot? 

I was always taught just a heart/lung placement and have only ever taken that shot.  But am curious what actual shots have been. I've read a bit lately about double shoulder shots being used more often, and curious how many do.  And curious how many have done spine, neck, or head shots.  All are ethical shots with a good practiced shooter, so no judgements or arguing one is better than the other.  Just data gathering.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2017, 09:31:51 PM »
Long range shoulder hits are the answer - less risk of pencil hits especially with Berger.

Online kselkhunter

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 09:37:43 PM »
Thanks.  That's some of the information I'm interested in.  Do you normally go high shoulder closer to spine, or lower closer to heart/lung area on those longer shots?

Offline WapitiTalk1

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 09:52:07 PM »
Broadside at 100 yards is not a long shot.  Shoot for the lung/heart, right in the "V".  Shoulder shot will certainly put it down but why waste the meat??
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Online kselkhunter

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 09:57:55 PM »
Thanks for the response.  Yeah I know 100 isn't long.  I chose to limit to 100 yards with the poll (thought about listing 300 or 400 instead) but was curious about the typical shot used.  Would have liked a matrix poll option so I could vary both distance and placement, but couldn't figure that out.   


Offline Timberstalker

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 09:58:43 PM »
Broadside at 100 yards is not a long shot.  Shoot for the lung/heart, right in the "V".  Shoulder shot will certainly put it down but why waste the meat??

My thoughts, exactly.
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Offline greenhead_killer

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 10:41:39 PM »
I always aim for the shoulders. Not sure why, I don't consciously think about it, I just always end up there.
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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 11:33:32 PM »
Broadside at 100 yards is not a long shot.  Shoot for the lung/heart, right in the "V".  Shoulder shot will certainly put it down but why waste the meat??
:yeah:
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2017, 11:58:22 PM »
Broadside at 100 yards is not a long shot.  Shoot for the lung/heart, right in the "V".  Shoulder shot will certainly put it down but why waste the meat??

My thoughts, exactly.

 +1, if you can get within 100 yards, I'd question the need for a 300wm as well. :dunno:

 I get it if that's what you have but if you have other options and can get within that distance, you might consider it, but I'd still go heart/lungs. ;)
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Offline hunter399

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 12:47:10 AM »
Lungs are the sweet spot .But in the end I guess it depends on the ability of the shooter.It may depend on terrain also,if your in the nasty brush ,6ft talk ferns, and you think your gonna have a hard time finding it ,neck,head,spine might be better .kinda depends on the situation.

Offline CP

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 06:12:31 AM »
... It may depend on terrain also,if your in the nasty brush ,6ft talk ferns, and you think your gonna have a hard time finding it ,neck,head,spine might be better .kinda depends on the situation.
:yeah:

With a hearth/lung shot you can expect the deer to run somewhere between zero and 100 yards.  Would that be a problem?


Offline dscubame

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 06:26:00 AM »
I cannot imagine taking a shoulder out and wasting that meat.  There is already so little meat on a deer to start with.  Same with neck why waste neck meat.  And spine oh my!  Wasting backstrap! 

For those in the know it is lungs/heart at all the distances, if you can't place the bullet where you want it you're to far for your capabilities.
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Offline jackmaster

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2017, 06:46:30 AM »
I voted for the double shoulder except I will explain it a little better, if an animal is quartering away it gets the the 4 ribs back and through the boiler room and into the far shoulder !! Any other time it's a high shoulder shot because it takes the spine with it, it's quick and painless and it anchors them to the ground, but it is not the right shot for someone who is not able to control their emotions !! There is a lot that can go wrong with it but it can also be the best shot if done correctly !!
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Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2017, 06:57:44 AM »
Thanks.  That's some of the information I'm interested in.  Do you normally go high shoulder closer to spine, or lower closer to heart/lung area on those longer shots?

Long shots I want center of mass on the shoulder which is high as that allows a 15" dia kill zone for wind and such and I would rather miss high than have a lower leg hit. ( long meaning 400+.  )   

If its just a meat hunt yea behind the shoulder up to 400 yards. 


Offline 7mmfan

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2017, 08:40:12 AM »
I always try to double lung, right behind the shoulder, but I can't remember the last time I had a deer stand perfectly broadside for me. Last year I got 2 "quartering to" shots. One I slipped in behind the shoulder, the other I shot through the brisket. A 45 degree quartering to shot is probably my favorite shot with a rifle. Put it on the near side of the brisket and out the far side behind the shoulder.You get the heart/lung plus the explosive shock. Never had a deer go more than a few feet from that shot.
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Offline Stein

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2017, 09:24:42 AM »
Double lung every time at every range.


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Offline Bill W

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2017, 09:28:40 AM »
What I've seen with the .300 Mag is you'll get a lot of bloodshot meat with a 100 yard shot.

Offline kball4

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2017, 09:38:15 AM »
Heart/lung although I am disapointmented when I dont get any vension heart to eat.

Offline theleo

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2017, 10:14:31 AM »
Heart/lung for me. Personally I'd completely rule out double shoulder with that round at that range. There's very few powder and bullet combos I can thinks of that wouldn't turn both front quarters in to anything but a blood shot mess. Depending on the load I'd possibly resort to a head shot to avoid meat damage.

Offline OutHouse

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2017, 10:52:45 AM »
.300 Winchester Mag on deer? Talk about overkill. Just kidding, just kidding, to each his own. I vote lungs or upper heart area every time. I agree with comments on losing meat shooting anywhere else.

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2017, 11:49:05 AM »
So at 100 votes, it's 88% heart/lung and 7% double shoulder with the rest sprinkled over the other 3 categories.

In retrospect, I should have left caliber off (don't even own a 300WM).  Mainly wanted to lock that variable down to avoid caliber discussions.  Also, I imagine if I posted this on the bear thread or a longer range elk shot with larger caliber....I'd get a higher percentage of shoulder shot votes....but didn't want to skew things. 

Thanks for the responses thus far. 


Offline Curly

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2017, 11:58:47 AM »
I shoot deer for the meat.  I would never purposely shoot for a double shoulder shot.  First choice would be lungs.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 12:12:45 PM by Curly »
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Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2017, 12:10:45 PM »
I didn't vote but will comment.  Under the right conditions I really like a brain shot, especially in dense cover or when it is snowing or raining, knowing exactly where it will drop can be a huge bonus.  I've had enough heart/lung shot deer, pronghorn and elk run out of sight without leaving good blood that I really appreciate DRT.  Beyond 200, moving animals, high winds, alert animal/need for a fast shot, heart/lung every time.  I'm not a very experienced bear killer, but my intent has been to break one or both shoulders, preferably through the heart or lungs too.  However, last bear I shot was just over 100 yards, broadside and saw me at the same time I saw it - I expected it to run any second, so dropped to a knee and instinct put it behind the shoulders through the heart/lung area.  Bear whirled and ran back the way it came into extremely dense NE WA reprod; I had hair, blood, bone and muscle on the off side, high confidence in a dead bear, and lost it.  I know I killed it because another hunter found her three days later by the scavenger activity.  It replays over and over in my mind, and I sure wish I had busted her shoulders and spine.
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Offline Bill W

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2017, 01:33:41 PM »
heart/lung area for me and I angle the shot so it doesn't catch the off shoulder.

Offline theleo

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2017, 02:47:59 PM »
So at 100 votes, it's 88% heart/lung and 7% double shoulder with the rest sprinkled over the other 3 categories.

In retrospect, I should have left caliber off (don't even own a 300WM).  Mainly wanted to lock that variable down to avoid caliber discussions.  Also, I imagine if I posted this on the bear thread or a longer range elk shot with larger caliber....I'd get a higher percentage of shoulder shot votes....but didn't want to skew things. 

Thanks for the responses thus far.
About the only time you'll get the cartridge debate on deer at 100 yards is if you're talking about using a .223.

Offline meatwhack

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2017, 08:01:20 PM »
My vote is heart lungs at pretty much any range as I think it's the safest clean ethical kill. If you can eat hole one that's obviously quick and clean but it's a very small target and doesn't leave much margin for error. I've shot deer in the neck and had them fold like a taco but I've also been with guys who have neck shot deer that we ended up having to track a long ways. I've also seen several deer that have been spinal tapped which drop in their tracks but almost always require a follow up kill shot as simply severing the spine isn't lethal at least not very quickly.

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2017, 06:31:21 AM »
heart/lung area for me and I angle the shot so it doesn't catch the off shoulder.

How do you angle your shot, a little left to right English perhaps?
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Offline dmoua

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2017, 01:38:18 PM »
Heart/lungs; although I have shot a few deer in the neck with great results.
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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2017, 08:54:32 PM »
Well thanks for all the votes the past few days folks.  I was curious what the stats would look like.

I've had many shots on deer at close range in my life.  My 7mmRM is what I carry these days, and it's been overkill on the short shots but I like the longer range abilities it brings..  I've had some shots the past few years where I've debated on a head or neck or spine above front shoulder shot at <50 yards to save the explosive lungs/organs shots I normally do.  But never have convinced myself to stray from the heart/lung shot mantra that my dad beat into my brain 4 decades ago.  I'm good at gutless deboning now at least.  And switched off the fragmenting bullets (ie Berger VLD) to Accubonds....but even those 168g at 3000fps muzzle velocity can create a mess into the vitals at 50 yards.   

One of these years I may consider an alternate shot location on a close range shot.  But thanks for the votes.  Gives me a better picture of what folks use. 

Offline Jpmiller

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2017, 09:10:22 PM »
Everytime I have ever thought of aiming for one of the smaller target zones I think about how stupid and crappy I would feel if I wounded a deer and never recovered an animal because I was trying to get fancy.

I do hate hitting the heart though. That's my favorite part to eat but it's better than eating store bought beef

Offline predatorG

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2017, 10:53:18 PM »
.300 Winchester Mag on deer? Talk about overkill. Just kidding, just kidding, to each his own. I vote lungs or upper heart area every time. I agree with comments on losing meat shooting anywhere else.

I've seen people stuff a 300 win mag into a hog at 50 yards. Not like they cared about the hog meat, it was just population control.  But still...
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Offline JDHasty

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2017, 10:59:55 PM »
Long range shoulder hits are the answer - less risk of pencil hits especially with Berger.

When shooting at long range a bullet that does not expand and pencils through is most definitely a consideration 

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,209049.msg2782202.html#msg2782202

Offline JDHasty

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2017, 11:19:36 PM »
.300 Winchester Mag on deer? Talk about overkill. Just kidding, just kidding, to each his own. I vote lungs or upper heart area every time. I agree with comments on losing meat shooting anywhere else.

I shoot a 300 Wby, or 348 if I am hunting really close brush where I have little chance of taking a longer shot than 200 yards.  Practically the same trajectory, out to their respective range, as my 17 Rem, 22-250 & 243 that I shoot a LOT of varmints with.  200 grain Nosler Partitions are my bullet for everything and I like to shoot for a double lung or better yet through the chest into the off shoulder.

However most of my blacktail hunting is done with a Deerslayer II and Lightfield Hybrid Elite slugs.  Same shot placement.   

Offline pcal

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2017, 12:21:24 AM »
Well thanks for all the votes the past few days folks.  I was curious what the stats would look like.

I've had many shots on deer at close range in my life.  My 7mmRM is what I carry these days, and it's been overkill on the short shots but I like the longer range abilities it brings..  I've had some shots the past few years where I've debated on a head or neck or spine above front shoulder shot at <50 yards to save the explosive lungs/organs shots I normally do.  But never have convinced myself to stray from the heart/lung shot mantra that my dad beat into my brain 4 decades ago.  I'm good at gutless deboning now at least.  And switched off the fragmenting bullets (ie Berger VLD) to Accubonds....but even those 168g at 3000fps muzzle velocity can create a mess into the vitals at 50 yards.   

One of these years I may consider an alternate shot location on a close range shot.  But thanks for the votes.  Gives me a better picture of what folks use.
Have you considered loading some 175 gr. bullets to 2000 fps?Speer #14 has a reduced load of SR4759 that has the power of a 3030 170 gr. almost exactly for speed and power.I took a blacktail buck at almost 400 yrds with a 3030 170gr factory load in the Olympics behind Quilcene back in the '80s so if you are looking for a close range load with 1200 ftp at 100 yrds this would be a load to work on for close range shots.I have carried reduced loads for my 3006,.308,.300 savage for stands with less than 300 yrd to great effect with less bloodshot meat and waste.A couple of those bucks were over 300#s but only took 1 shot to drop & flopp.For longer ranges carry full power cartridges but keep the close range ones in the chamber as you will have plenty of time to switch out if you spot long range game but if you have a close shot you can only have time to shoot the buck with whats in the chamber without spooking it and spoiling the shot.

Offline WSU

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2017, 07:01:26 AM »
I've seen head and neck shots go very wrong.  I saw a guy hit the jaw once. The deer got up and ran off never to be found.  I've also watched a neck shot deer run off. It was shot with a 300 win. We got it but it require a follow up lung shot.  Deer, or any other animal, don't go far when shot in the lungs.   :twocents:

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2017, 07:07:09 AM »
My two cents.
I shoot a .338 with 225 grain Speers and a 7MM RM with 160 grain Speers.
I use both for deer and elk although lately it's primarily the .338 for both.
Hunting mostly timber, I take the shot I'm given, but try for the sure thing, heart/lung.
I generally don't wait for the situation to improve unless I'm confident that it will.
Neither bullet tears up much meat with the H/L.
Shoulder shots are a different story, they can be a bit messy.

With elk, I try to shoot a bit forward if possible.
They're to damn tough to chance anything.
Deer go down pretty easy with the H/L.

Thanks for asking.

Offline chasray

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2017, 01:30:47 PM »
First of all. Hi, I don't live in  Washington yet , however that is my retirement plan. Also my first post here. I though I would join and start learning!
I don't hunt Mule deer either! Whitetal is all we have in Northeastern Oklahoma. I use a .243 win, 6.5 Creedmoor, .35 remington and sometimes .38-55 win. or handgun I .357 mag or 7/30 waters.
At 100 yards with a rifle I would take a heart shot. With .357 heart lugs with a proper bullet.
Glad to find you all and hope to be hunting there by next year!

Offline yakimanoob

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2017, 02:18:20 PM »
First of all. Hi, I don't live in  Washington yet , however that is my retirement plan. Also my first post here. I though I would join and start learning!
I don't hunt Mule deer either! Whitetal is all we have in Northeastern Oklahoma. I use a .243 win, 6.5 Creedmoor, .35 remington and sometimes .38-55 win. or handgun I .357 mag or 7/30 waters.
At 100 yards with a rifle I would take a heart shot. With .357 heart lugs with a proper bullet.
Glad to find you all and hope to be hunting there by next year!
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Offline JDHasty

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2017, 07:55:41 AM »
Well thanks for all the votes the past few days folks.  I was curious what the stats would look like.

I've had many shots on deer at close range in my life.  My 7mmRM is what I carry these days, and it's been overkill on the short shots but I like the longer range abilities it brings..  I've had some shots the past few years where I've debated on a head or neck or spine above front shoulder shot at <50 yards to save the explosive lungs/organs shots I normally do.  But never have convinced myself to stray from the heart/lung shot mantra that my dad beat into my brain 4 decades ago.  I'm good at gutless deboning now at least.  And switched off the fragmenting bullets (ie Berger VLD) to Accubonds....but even those 168g at 3000fps muzzle velocity can create a mess into the vitals at 50 yards.   

One of these years I may consider an alternate shot location on a close range shot.  But thanks for the votes.  Gives me a better picture of what folks use.

People shooting fragmenting bullets is all the rage these days and the reason that if I were giving advice to people taking game meat home that has been donated by hunters that don't eat game meat themselves, I would pass on it unless I were sure that it had not been shot with such a bullet.

I have seen photos of x-rays of carcasses that have been hit with those bullets and they have lead all through the meat.  There is a huge difference between animals hit with a fragmenting bullet and one that stays fairly intact.

This was "brought to my attention" by a friend who is an OK guy, other than that he takes it as his mission to engage in one-way enlightenment of the benighted.

He hectored me relentlessly for over a decade about shooting Berger bullets "that blow up" and practically had fits when I said: no thanks.  And now since he has become a fanatical anti-lead crusader he is fit to be tied that most of us don't share his concern that a few grains of lead are missing when we recover our Nosler Partitions. 

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Shot Placement Poll
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2017, 08:49:51 AM »
If donating meat I would use barnes or other copper.  For myself I trim judiciously but don't use berger - mainly because just don't like their lack of expansion.