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Author Topic: UPDATE: Seattle on gun tax only pulled $103,766! Doublin' down!  (Read 1837 times)

Online Bob33

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Re: WA Supremes side with Seattle on gun tax!
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2017, 09:25:00 AM »
I think there are two things at play here:
1.  Seattle has never seen a tax they didn't want.  The progressive Socialists are hooked on OPM (other people's money).
2.  Guns are an especially juicy target, and I'm sure that some of them would like to ratchet this tax up over time and use it to destroy the ability to get guns/ammo.

Daniel Webster had it right way back in the day.    You don't have to outlaw something if you can hike the tax high enough:

Daniel Webster (1782–1852)
QUOTATION:   The power to tax is the power to destroy.
Besides a source of income, taxes are one of a government's best tools to discourage and encourage certain behaviors, which is why a flat tax will never happen.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: WA Supremes side with Seattle on gun tax!
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2017, 10:51:24 AM »
Why is this in OT instead of Outdoor Advocacy?
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: WA Supremes side with Seattle on gun tax!
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2017, 10:56:42 AM »
I think it could be successfully argued that the tax deprives lower income Seattle residents of their Constitutionally  protected right to acquire firearms and ammo because it forced most dealers to either move or stop selling firearms, thus leaving those with limited transportation options unable to purchase a firearm to protect themselves and their families.  :dunno: This also seems like it could be attacked as economic discrimination.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: WA Supremes side with Seattle on gun tax!
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2017, 11:58:28 AM »
Why is this in OT instead of Outdoor Advocacy?

Hit the report to mod and have them move it. DW always posts his stuff in OT but probably shouldn't.

Online Bob33

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Re: WA Supremes side with Seattle on gun tax!
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2017, 12:01:23 PM »
Why is this in OT instead of Outdoor Advocacy?

Hit the report to mod and have them move it. DW always posts his stuff in OT but probably shouldn't.
:yeah:
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline jmscon

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Re: WA Supremes side with Seattle on gun tax!
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2017, 02:13:45 PM »
It's a bs tax, it's not going to discourage people from buying guns, it's not going to raise very much money to help stop any gun violence. It probably cost more for the accounting than it raises each year.

It doesn't keep people from buying a gun outside of the city limits and exercising their constitutional right to bare arms within the city. And, unfortunately, if you can afford to buy a $100 gun you can pay for a $2.50 bus ride out of town.

Don't get me wrong I think it's a bs law and I won't be buying guns in this city anymore but I don't think the tax will be going anywhere anytime soon.

Maybe the scotus will hear it but I'm not holding my breath.
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Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

Online Bob33

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Re: WA Supremes side with Seattle on gun tax!
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2017, 02:31:28 PM »
It does nothing to reduce gun violence. It does hurt the pro-gun employees and owners of Seattle businesses like Outdoor Emporium. I'll go out of my way to support them through the purchase of non-firearms products, or even paying a bit more for firearms products. Screw the City leaders.
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Offline jmscon

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Re: WA Supremes side with Seattle on gun tax!
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2017, 02:38:49 PM »
It does nothing to reduce gun violence. It does hurt the pro-gun employees and owners of Seattle businesses like Outdoor Emporium. I'll go out of my way to support them through the purchase of non-firearms products, or even paying a bit more for firearms products. Screw the City leaders.

I go to Outdoor Emporium all the time and go out of my way to do so but won't be buying any guns or ammo from them (don't forget that there is an extra tax on ammo too!). I get all of my fishing and hunting gear from them.
My interpretation of the rules are open to interpretation.
Once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

Offline Dave Workman

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Re: WA Supremes side with Seattle on gun tax!
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2017, 08:18:22 AM »

Quote
We have special taxes on all kinds of things, tobacco, gas, liquor etc. From a purely legal standpoint, why should guns/ammo be excluded from special taxes?
With your type of thinking then any tax is discriminatory because it targets a specific class of people. Income taxes targets those who work. Cigarette tax targets those who smoke. Gas tax targets those who drive. Etc.

"My type of thinking?"
There is no constitutionally delineated right to light up a cigarette or drive a car. Or work, for that matter. I'm sure some clever fellow can find some way to get those activities into the Bill of Rights, of course.

But this tax runs up against state preemption.
There is something else here too. It sets a rather dangerous precedent as others have pointed out.
If Seattle can get away with this, other municipalities will do it, likewise. And that could be a real headache for preemption, not to mention all the gun owners in the state. Of course, you can say I'm mistaken, you can claim I've lost my marbles.
Yes, we have a tax on firearms and ammunition. That's a federal excise tax, the Pittman-Robertson fund that is a dedicated fund for wildlife conservation and restoration. 
We're talking about a "local" (not even a state) tax that actually targets firearms and ammunition retailers.  I suspect you could launch quite a discussion about that among lawyers.

We're all apparently agreed that the tax sucks. But I sense some of you are satisfied to leave it at that and tomorrow you'll grumble about something else.

But I was at the gun show in Puyallup yesterday and chatted with quite a few folks about this. They're waking up to the fact that elections matter and that includes state supreme court races. I'm not sure what will come out of this but I am more certain now than ever that there are complainers and there are doers.

I also talked to Mike Coombs, owner of the Outdoor Emporium the other day. He's one of the plaintiffs in the tax case (not to be mixed up with my case against Seattle for a PRA violation for not disclosing the tax revenue figures I requested in my job as a working journalist; the attorneys won that case, BTW, about ten days ago) and he is seriously considering moving his gun and ammo sales to a location east of Lake Washington. If he can find the space (5,00 - 8,000 sq. ft. I think he mentioned) my guess is that he will be setting up shop there.

And then what? Well, the city maintains that this was not a gun control issue, a story that seems ludicrous considering the revelations in discovery of emails and notes that were obtained by the plaintiffs. Tim Burgess told KOMO the other day that if the gun stores moved out of town, he would be OK with that.

So this, in my perspective, does boil down to the exercise of animosity to drive guns and ammunition sales out of the city. That's probably restraint of trade, which is a big no-no, even when it comes to firearms.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 03:43:59 AM by Dave Workman »
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Offline Dave Workman

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Re: THIS JUST IN: Seattle on gun tax only pulled $103,766 !
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2017, 04:29:23 PM »
Seattle ‘Gun Tax’ Dud Confirmed; $103K Total Take
 
The City of Seattle on Monday afternoon confirmed what had long been suspected by Second Amendment advocates, that their so-called “gun violence tax” had pulled in far less than originally projected, a total of $103,766.22 for all of 2016.
 
http://libertyparkpress.com/seattle-gun-tax-dud-confirmed-103k-total-take/
 


Speaking of "sucks"   

 :yeah:
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Offline Special T

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Re: THIS JUST IN: Seattle on gun tax only pulled $103,766 !
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2017, 05:55:54 PM »
I think a poll tax is a better comparison to this gun tax.
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Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: THIS JUST IN: Seattle on gun tax only pulled $103,766 !
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2017, 07:19:12 PM »
$100K?

That probably doesn't even cover the cost to administer the program to collect the tax.

Offline Dave Workman

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Re: THIS JUST IN: Seattle on gun tax only pulled $103,766 !
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2017, 01:37:53 PM »
$100K?

That probably doesn't even cover the cost to administer the program to collect the tax.

Well, my guess is that it certainly didn't cover the attorney's fees, the loss of B&O tax revenue, the fine/penalty and the man-hours of city employees to work on this thing.

Meanwhile, the Arizona Supremes got it right:

Arizona Supremes Tell Local Governments ‘No’ on Local Gun Laws

One week to the day after the Washington State Supreme Court okayed Seattle’s so-called “gun violence tax” despite the Evergreen State’s 34-year-old preemption law governing firearms regulation, the Arizona Supreme Court ruled that “cities, towns and counties have no right to enact their own gun regulations,” the Arizona Daily Sun is reporting.

http://libertyparkpress.com/arizona-supremes-tell-local-governments-no-local-gun-laws/
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer." - D.H. Lawrence

Offline csaaphill

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Re: THIS JUST IN: Seattle on gun tax only pulled $103,766 !
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2017, 08:36:40 PM »
No words. >:( yeah was reading about this on other sites just sucks.
"When my bow falls, so shall the world. When me heart ceases to pump blood to my body, it will all come crashing down. As a hunter, we are bound by duty, nay, bound by our very soul to this world. When a hunter dies we feel it, we sense it, and the world trembles with sorrow. When I die, so shall the world, from the shock of loosing such a great part of ones soul." Ezekiel, Okeanos Hunter

Offline acnewman55

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THIS JUST IN: Seattle on gun tax only pulled $103,766 !
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2017, 09:15:17 PM »
I subscribe to emails from the WA Alliance for "Gun Responsibility" just because I'm interested to hear their spin.

They're talking about carry reciprocity and how that's going to put more guns "on the streets".

Their entire campaign is constant fear mongering about how us gun owners are always lurking around the corner waiting to kill the defenseless urban cat ladies that keeps these organization alive.

Spreading blatant lies... smh


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