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Author Topic: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?  (Read 3020 times)

Offline buckcanyonlodge

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2017, 08:04:09 PM »
The one thing I will point out regarding the doe permits is the that season's they are given out for (early seasons) most of the does that are taken are non-migratory and "resident" deer and are not contributing to the migratory herds anyway as their fawns live in the lowlands (and eventually get hit by a car...another reason why the resident deer population needs to be kept in check...that highway has the highest car vs deer collisions in the state). Driving up the Methow valley the resident or non-migratory deer numbers, especially females, are just fine...that is if you want room during the harsh winter months for the backcountry deer to have a place to eat then you need to thin out the resident deer numbers. I don't have a problem with the doe permits when houses are going up in the wintering grounds...and for the comments about how the deer take refuge near homes to get away from predators...I totally agree, but that is still a minority of the deer that do this, and the displacement of feed/cover and human interaction is part of the decline...it is all relative to wildlife management 101 and mule deer do not adapt easily to human interactions...yes, when the winter grounds are burned up we should institute feeding programs, but I also believe that if we build homes or fence off orchards/alfalfa fields then we must also institute feeding programs. Instead of our goal being to meet the lowest carrying capacity (winter range) we should be striving for reaching the highest carrying capacity (summer range).

Grade

Wrong..in my neck of the woods. And not just me but other locals. The mulies get along fine with human interactions...in my neck of the woods  It's the PREDATORS. I had a big black wolf stalking deer that were in my front yard in broad daylight. Coyotes are after them
EVERY night and how about the bear and cougar overpopulations? The WDFW allows 6 cougar to be taken in a 1500 Sq. Mile unit. CRAZY.
Providing a select few deer , bear , and turkey hunts  with meals and lodging provided.  Stevens County is right in the heart of the best hunting and fishing in the Northeast corner of the state . . Our Lodge is also a great place for your family reunion, summer vacation  509-722-3949  www.buckcanyon.net
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Offline lokidog

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2017, 08:51:02 PM »
Talking with people while scouting around Plain made it sound like the populations are not doing well in that part of the Chiwawa unit either.   :(  We saw one little spike buck in a driveway, one pile of old poo and no fresh tracks in any of the areas we looked.   :dunno:

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2017, 09:47:07 PM »
4 days driving all over Entiat Unit last weekend saw one herd of 5 does and another pair of does.  Wasn't glassing but looks extremely sparse.

Offline huntnnw

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2017, 10:41:29 PM »
I know where some are. Not saying where tho

Offline Romulus1297

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2017, 10:51:09 PM »
I know where some are. Not saying where tho
I know right. I watched a pretty buck last night.

Offline huntnnw

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2017, 11:34:20 PM »
Saw 12 legal bucks in 3 days hunting and not 1 single hunter last year. Held out for the 170-180" buck I spotted . Back at it this year now with more time

Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2017, 06:29:14 AM »
Entiat is holding in there along with Mission, but as noted, itís one step behind the Methow.   A banner harvest, a big winter, wolves taking over as they are already getting a foothold.  .   Itís all itís going to take.

Sounds like the 2015 central wa winter. I was seeing several hundred deer along the hwy. every night...that equals a ton of roadkill along with normal winter attrition. 


Saw 12 legal bucks in 3 days hunting and not 1 single hunter last year. Held out for the 170-180" buck I spotted . Back at it this year now with more time


I know where some are. Not saying where tho
I know right. I watched a pretty buck last night.



Just my  :twocents:, but a few deer do not constitute an entire herd like is being discussed in this thread. If anyone does not believe our mulie herds are in trouble right now.......SMH

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Offline grade-creek-rd

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2017, 08:31:44 AM »
buckcanyonlodge...you petting a deer does not do that deer justice as habitualizing them is bad...heck, every park has a sign saying "don't feed the wildlife". And just because you have a pet deer or two doesn't mean that the true wild deer (backcountry mulies) will come running to your front yard to eat apples out of your hand.

For those that have made comments about predators...obviously this is the main issue, as since the reintroduction of wolves the deer numbers have been declining steadily...they are the primary food source, unlike in Idaho where its the elk. But couple the fact that we are losing winter range at a steady rate and do nothing to support the deer during the winter it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that our mule deer herds will decline. The doe permits served one purpose (IMO) and that was either watch the deer die from starvation (because WDFW refused to feed them like the IDFG did) and die from auto collisions...or thin them out so the other deer could survive...Yes, killing does hurts any overall population but another member commented that hunters where shooting pregnant does, but all of the doe permits were for hunts pre-rut. Again, most of the does killed where resident deer and made room for the migratory herds during the winter.

Grade
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Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2017, 09:10:48 AM »
I think he's mostly pointing out that deer (all species) can and do move into the human domain just fine.  I tend to agree with him.  Deer living in neighborhoods seem to thrive--plenty of food and virtually no predators.  The deer densities in exurban areas can get ridiculous.  There seems to be a thought that only whitetails can, but I see it with blacktails quite frequently and see it with muleys when I go to places like Bend or in Colorado.
I think for the wilderness deer it is mostly the predators, followed by yearly food supply.

Offline Bigshooter

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2017, 09:13:14 AM »
The healthy herds are in AZ & UT at least they manage their herds to be that way.

UT manages for 12 - 15 bucks per 100 does.  WA wants 25 bucks per 100 does.  If there is a state that is more poorly managed than WA it is UT.  Plus they have about 300,000 less deer than what there management goal is.



Every state has its problems with mule deer.  None of them know how to fix it.
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Offline Dhoey07

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2017, 09:37:16 AM »
Entiat is holding in there along with Mission, but as noted, itís one step behind the Methow.   A banner harvest, a big winter, wolves taking over as they are already getting a foothold.  .   Itís all itís going to take.

Sounds like the 2015 central wa winter. I was seeing several hundred deer along the hwy. every night...that equals a ton of roadkill along with normal winter attrition. 


Saw 12 legal bucks in 3 days hunting and not 1 single hunter last year. Held out for the 170-180" buck I spotted . Back at it this year now with more time


I know where some are. Not saying where tho
I know right. I watched a pretty buck last night.



Just my  :twocents:, but a few deer do not constitute an entire herd like is being discussed in this thread. If anyone does not believe our mulie herds are in trouble right now.......SMH
Outside of central Wa, I think they are doing ok.

Offline buckcanyonlodge

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2017, 09:45:32 AM »
I expected a response like that from an armchair biologist. No biggie..I live among WILD deer and Tame deer. Mule deer DO adapt to human interactions---in my backyard and in the"wild" .I am in the outdoors EVERYDAY on thousands of acres of timber,farm, and rural land. That is what I base my comments on...What do you base your comment "mule deer do not adapt easily to human interactions" on??      Not going to get into a pissing match. You will never change my mind and I will never change yours.  Over & out
Providing a select few deer , bear , and turkey hunts  with meals and lodging provided.  Stevens County is right in the heart of the best hunting and fishing in the Northeast corner of the state . . Our Lodge is also a great place for your family reunion, summer vacation  509-722-3949  www.buckcanyon.net
Call me for your REAL ESTATE needs in the Tri-County area. Hunting/Recreational or retirement properties. Westergard Real Estate Kettle Falls

Offline grade-creek-rd

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2017, 10:05:55 AM »
armchair biologist...you assume a lot...and we all know what happens when you assume...

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Offline RileyH

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2017, 10:29:08 AM »
Disclaimer: This is pure opinion based on observation, and only relative to the Methow herd.

The healthy herds are not in Methow, I can tell you that. I think a big issue that's impacting the herd is simply lazy hunters. I'm seeing more of them than deer in the last couple seasons.

I was ~1.5 miles off the road when I shot my buck last year and had not one, but TWO sets of hunters literally DRIVE up to me on ATV's after I shot, and one group of 5 guys (who hunts like that?!) on ATV's come over the finger on the other side of the draw and glass me gutting my deer. All of that within 15 minutes of dropping my buck, no joke. Both sets commented they hadn't seen any deer all season, meanwhile they were pushing bucks like wild all around me. I could have shot three other bucks in the same morning that they drove past me. All head down, tongue hanging, and huffing from running away from the ATV's. I'm no biologist, but when they're getting driven that hard all season by lazy guys, it has got to impact their energy stores for the rut, winter, and escaping predators. In turn, hurting their ability to survive.

I've also seen at least two deer poached and left off the side of the backroads (Texas Creek is really bad) in Methow every year since the Carlton Complex Fire in 2014. Mostly Bucks (bodies left completely intact and heads gone) and a couple Does who most commonly have back-straps and one set of quarters taken off, rest left to spoil. Every instance of this has been after season, Nov-Dec. I almost think it's the same guy(s) based on what they take.

Just my  :twocents: but I can't imagine either of those has helped the herd.



« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 10:54:19 AM by RileyH »

Offline Cervid

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Re: NOT according to the WDFW, where are the healthy muley herds?
« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2017, 06:20:21 PM »
Disclaimer: This is pure opinion based on observation, and only relative to the Methow herd.

The healthy herds are not in Methow, I can tell you that. I think a big issue that's impacting the herd is simply lazy hunters. I'm seeing more of them than deer in the last couple seasons.

I was ~1.5 miles off the road when I shot my buck last year and had not one, but TWO sets of hunters literally DRIVE up to me on ATV's after I shot, and one group of 5 guys (who hunts like that?!) on ATV's come over the finger on the other side of the draw and glass me gutting my deer. All of that within 15 minutes of dropping my buck, no joke. Both sets commented they hadn't seen any deer all season, meanwhile they were pushing bucks like wild all around me. I could have shot three other bucks in the same morning that they drove past me. All head down, tongue hanging, and huffing from running away from the ATV's. I'm no biologist, but when they're getting driven that hard all season by lazy guys, it has got to impact their energy stores for the rut, winter, and escaping predators. In turn, hurting their ability to survive.

I've also seen at least two deer poached and left off the side of the backroads (Texas Creek is really bad) in Methow every year since the Carlton Complex Fire in 2014. Mostly Bucks (bodies left completely intact and heads gone) and a couple Does who most commonly have back-straps and one set of quarters taken off, rest left to spoil. Every instance of this has been after season, Nov-Dec. I almost think it's the same guy(s) based on what they take.

Just my  :twocents: but I can't imagine either of those has helped the herd.

Where in the Methow are ATVs allowed off the road or trail? I've seen it there before too, thinking I was going to be alone because I hiked away from the road then some dude rolls up on his retard chariot.

 

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