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Is it time to push for a new system, draw, alternating year, etc?

No
Yes

Author Topic: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)  (Read 9386 times)

Offline ian_padron

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2017, 08:28:17 PM »
Let me say, I have been against this since day one. Mostly because I didn’t want to sit out a season waiting to be drawn, but I have completely flipped.  Our herd is in horrible shape.  I can’t eloquently express how bad they are.  If we don’t do something soon, they are done.   No doe tags, no late hunts for a couple years. Shut down units, something has to be done.
I agree with Bone. Zap the doe, youth, and rut hunts. If that doesn't help, then we can talk about making all deer hunting permit only. I also think that motorized access should be eliminated in areas like the Teanaway, Colockum, etc. That'd due a whole lot of good for the deer back there.

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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2017, 08:29:38 PM »
I was asking because BT are only in west side.if hunters want to travel throughout the state during the season to switch between bt wt and mulies then there is a lot of time they are not hunting deer.these species are already spread out by the dept. by gmu for the most part.its a descent idea but i think its not much diff. than seperating deer tags E. and W.  :twocents:
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Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2017, 08:49:20 PM »
Not sure why this didn't post correctly on page 2....so trying again

First, I want to say that winters are in most cases probably the biggest factor in deer numbers. Next, with roughly 4000 cougar that average eating 25-50 deer per year, it seems that some 100,000 or more deer are destined to....


THIS^^^^^^^


Couple things not mentioned yet that have a HUGE impact;

1. Roadkill...... I drive 40 hours a week and see countless deer taken out on central WA highways. Hwy 2/97 between Wenatchee and Leavenworth, 97A between Entiat & Chelan, 97 from Wenatchee to Chelan, combine these 3 alone and I probably see several hundred squashed mulies a year. The deer/sheep fence on 97A is working well in that section, we need more of these type fences, and/or better drivers.

2. USFS and their "Let it burn" policy.  :puke:  If we continue to let all of our forest lands(and the deer that live in them) burn up, the herds will never fully recover. Yes, the burns will help the herds in the long run, but how many years does it take to recover back to the numbers of deer before they were burnt up? The way its going the herds build up just in time for another major fire to wipe them out again. Manage the forests better; more controlled logging and better fire suppression.......If the Forest Circus was doing their job correctly there would not be huge fires every dang year!!


As far as predators go, cougars are definitely on a huge increase in my areas. One particular trail camera alone this year had more cats on it than I have gotten altogether on 10 different cams in the last 4 years. Tried my hardest to kill one, but to no avail.  Bring back hounds!!
 


And as others have said, There are many many reasons, all of which are not helping the herds.


PS, I voted No.....but would be on board with a Yes only after seeing a well thought out plan.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 09:28:07 PM by NOCK NOCK »

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Offline REHJWA

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2017, 08:56:13 PM »
Is it time to push for a new system, draw, alternating year, etc? No...

What new system? Most new system mentioned so far just reduces opportunities for people and would have little impact on recovery.

New Draw? Oh so we can put more money into wolf recovery...don't see that help the herd.

Alternating Year? Reducing Hunter participation may increase herd numbers short term BUT most long term increases would be lost to predators and natural selection.

So...Yes the mule deer in the state need help in recovering.

There have been fewer and fewer deer since the 90s where we high hunt.

So what has changed? The most obvious for me is the restrictions that reduced effective predator controls.

Reestablish bait and hound seasons.

Establish a wolf draw by GMU in GMUs where wolves have "sustainable populations".(this would off set reduced funds from does tags)

Until annual reproduction rates increase we will never have the herds near carring capacity.
So..Reduce or discontinue does harvests until population objectives are meet..

Just my  :twocents:

Offline kselkhunter

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2017, 09:07:43 PM »
Having spent the first 39 of my 44 years on this planet in Oregon, the one thing I like there is all deer hunting east of the cascades (ie mule deer) is permit only for rifle.   Some permits are easier to draw than others.  Some can even be drawn with a second choice draw (and not give up any preference points).   The system works.  Not saying the Oregon mule deer herds are as healthy as they should be.  But going to a stricter permit system would be the best thing for the mule deer.

Well that and predator management....but would really rather not get into a wolf discussion here. 

Long story short, I voted "yes".   Although, it would be nice to make the permit system set up such that residents of that county have higher odds at the permit in their county.  I'm a wet sider, and even I'm annoyed with all of us that go overpopulate the mule deer hunting areas.   There is not much industry on the east side and folks that live there do it to enjoy the areas they live, at least give the guys that live over there higher odds to hunt in their own back yards.    :twocents:

Maybe general tags for the county you live, and limit permits for people that don't live in the county for the tag..... 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 09:19:21 PM by kselkhunter »

Offline Slamadoo

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2017, 09:28:15 PM »
1. Not ALL user groups will be limited by restricting opportunity. Some groups will continue to kill deer at current or increased rates.

2. Until our resources are managed through science and the North American Wildlife Conservation Model instead of the ballot box, voter emotion, and politicians, it will be virtually impossible to manage our wildlife efficiently or appropriately.

Offline Magnum_Willys

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2017, 09:43:23 PM »
Bring Back the Hounds for Cougar and Bear but alas it won't happen. 

Offline kselkhunter

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2017, 09:53:07 PM »
What about extending hunting hours for bear and cougar?

I always see cougar at night time when hiking back to my tent in the dark in backcountry.   Make cougar an "any hour" tag, and we can limit them more easily.  Wouldn't be using a dog or baiting which are seen as evil to environmental groups, so not as "unsportsmanlike".   Just shooting them with aid of my headlamp on the hike back to camp.  Crazy how many are in my area.  Never see them in daylight, just in the dark.





Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2017, 10:09:22 PM »
Maybe deer farming would help.No not high fence hunting but volunteer groups that truly want to help the herds rebound.Personally i don't know why deer farming is not legal in WA. States that allow deer farming have increased deer populations in huge numbers.How you say?A lot of the hunters that some want TO reduce in the field will go and hunt these high fence areas add that to the volunteer groups releasing deer to the open say every 3 years.We could bring them back.Push this agenda with the BT groupos on the coast and maybe they would jump on board.  :twocents:

Deer farms could protect the deer from poachers and preditors better than the dept. is.The deer would be healthier eating better on the farms,Lice could be eliminated in time.JUST A THOUGHT IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THIS THAT'S FINE JUST GIVER SOUND REASONS FOR IT PLEASE.
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Offline Slamadoo

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2017, 05:42:24 AM »
Chronic Wasting Disease. Privatizing a public resource. Other high fence disease risks such as the ticks that have recently hurt herds in Yakima and Kittittas Counties. Risking the genetic pool of wild ungulates as well as public resources. The degradation of our sportsmans and conservation heritage.

These are a few reasons to NEVER support high fence hunting in this or any state.

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #60 on: October 11, 2017, 09:53:57 AM »
Good stuff guys, both ways. :tup:
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Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #61 on: October 11, 2017, 10:14:43 AM »
Go to 4 point or better modern, 3 point or better archery, no doe tags for anyone. Start managing the predators.
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Offline trapp01

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #62 on: October 11, 2017, 10:30:05 AM »
I voted no. I fear reducing opportunity to hunt (draw only) would reduce hunter recruitment, which is the future of the sport, also reducing revenue. Draw only for mule deer would only bolster buck to doe ratios. If you really would like to see herd numbers rise then slash antlerless hunts and increase predator harvest.

Offline lunchbox

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #63 on: October 11, 2017, 12:16:52 PM »
I've lived in Okanogan county for 39 years and it's the worst i've ever seen it for mule deer numbers. Even across the river in Douglas county it's bad real bad!!

Offline Smokepole

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2017, 12:58:26 PM »
Cut back on doe tags.  Hunt more predators.  Get rid of wolves entirely.  Reduce special hunt opportunities temporarily.  Kill the high buck hunt for a couple years.  Cut back the duration of archery seasons.  Open the general rifle season earlier, and reduce it to 7-9 days for mule deer.

Also increase fines for poaching and wildlife harassment.  Use high fines to curb mortality from domestic dogs. 

We need to do a lot of these things to protect the mule deer.  They aren't very adaptable.   :twocents:
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Offline Bigshooter

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #65 on: October 11, 2017, 01:17:02 PM »
I voted yes because something needs to be done.  But I don't see how reducing buck harvest grows herds.  In fact I've read tons of the opposite to be true, that to many bucks can hurt herd health.  The Gunnison Basin in CO is a prime example of that.  CO in general is a good example.
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Offline Deerelk37

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2017, 02:40:08 PM »
Increase predator harvest. Perhaps by allowing bait again or offering second tags to those few who do harvest a predator. Manage the wolves with a regional quota (has anyone see the map of "packs"?)

 I am in favor of choosing east or west or reducing mule deer rifle to even one weekend through the following friday. Tbh I am in favor of anything the game dept will actually do...before it's too late. I haven't hunted mule deer since 2015-I can't ask to solve a problem, if I am part of it.

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #67 on: October 11, 2017, 02:42:43 PM »
 I hope those of you proposing wolf hunts, don't want more wolves in this state than we have now. :twocents:
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Offline Special T

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2017, 02:48:36 PM »
The Crux of this problem is evident in so many peoples posts. A huge component of this issue is not under sportmens control. Many are mistaken that we can effect some meaningful change by altering the small portion we can control. If only it were that easy.

Part of the issue  IMO is that many are willing to dedicate a huge amount of time to hunting Deer and Elk but that is not the case with predator hunting, with exception of a few hunters.
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Offline Deerelk37

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #69 on: October 11, 2017, 03:51:53 PM »
The Crux of this problem is evident in so many peoples posts. A huge component of this issue is not under sportmens control. Many are mistaken that we can effect some meaningful change by altering the small portion we can control. If only it were that easy.

Part of the issue  IMO is that many are willing to dedicate a huge amount of time to hunting Deer and Elk but that is not the case with predator hunting, with exception of a few hunters.

I have had the same thought lately. I plan on doing some coyote hunting this winter, I figure I need something to do and anything to help the deer and elk populations I am down for. I went out bear hunting for the first time this year but didn't see a bear. I would harvest one every year if I could. It was kind of a daunting task this year as I had no clue where to start. If anyone on here would be willing to take me out next year or give me some pointers I would graciously oblige.  :chuckle:

Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #70 on: October 11, 2017, 04:01:39 PM »
I voted no mainly because of the "hope and change" lack of specificity in the poll mentioned previously.  That doesn't mean I would not favor certain changes.  I do believe we can continue to hunt buck mule deer every year under 3-point or better, without negatively affecting herd size or herd health.  I would like to see multiseason deer permit hunting done away with for mule deer, with relatively small harvest opportunities with depressed herds we don't need one subgroup with greater opportunities.   

I would like to see herd management prioritized over the current emphasis on opportunity and resource allocation.  Currently, herd managers have their hands tied by efforts to equalize success between user groups, that means it is nearly impossible with mule deer specifically to have archers have enough success without allowing antlerless harvest.  Same goes for pressure for increased harvest opportunities for youth, senior, disabled, and enough antlerless and second deer permits areas to get hunters to buy the special permit applications ($$$).  All of those are fine when numbers are high, the problem is they don't go away when numbers are down.  Prioritize protecting the reproductive segment of the herds over equalizing success between user groups and providing doe harvest opportunities.

I would like to see all mule deer hunting, general and special permit, end before the rut.  Over time this will increase the quality of general hunt trophy opportunities; more important, it will allow deer to breed and not expend precious energy avoiding hunters right before going into winter.  Better condition deer after November means higher winter survival, heavier birth weights, and may allow better mate selection by does.  Bona fide agricultural damage can be addressed on a case by case basis administered by WDFW's damage control specialists. 

I would like to see all public land winter ranges closed to motorized access December through March.  Including snowmobiles.  It continues to amaze me that this state - including the USFS - allow running snow mobiles on crucial winter ranges.   

I would encourage more mule deer hunters to take up serious predator hunting - if you want predator control, that is the ONLY way it is going to happen given Washington's human population.  The government isn't going to do it. 

I would like to see the USFS have success in not diverting their resource management funding to firefighting.  Open canopied forest stands are both resilient to crown fires, and produce a LOT more nutritious forage than overstocked, closed canopy timber.  Log the diseased stands while the trees are still alive, manage the reprod/regen to NOT create another closed canopy stand.  Cool understory fires are great for mule deer - stand replacing, soil sterilizing hellfire is not. 

Full disclosure: I do not voluntarily limit myself, but am willing to share being limited with everyone.  In the meantime, I will continue to apply for whatever opportunities are available, and use them when I draw.
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline ian_padron

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2017, 04:17:11 PM »
Is this thread going to be forwarded to WDFW? Because it definitely should.

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #72 on: October 11, 2017, 05:05:06 PM »
I'd have to say that without taking other steps first, it's just wishful thinking.   If you can't limit predators by having a season and limit on how many predators we allow, if we can't do away with the multi-season deer tag that puts additional pressure on a declining resource, if we can't count on help in helping the deer herd from anyone BUT hunters ( and I believe this is the case ) I'm afraid it will be a simple case of hunters limiting themselves until there are virtually no deer left.

Offline Mr Mykiss

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #73 on: October 11, 2017, 09:02:39 PM »
WA mule deer hunting is a joke, anyone who knows anything knows that. Hell, even OR makes WA look bad!!
Have you called your district biologist to voice your concerns?
Have you attended a public meeting on season setting?
You are getting exactly what you deserve from WDFW

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #74 on: October 11, 2017, 09:25:33 PM »
I voted no because I believe that the does need to be protected from predators. We all need to start hunting cats  ;)
Seriously though there is no coming back from such a drastic change as what is being proposed. Deer numbers fluctuate but we are the true conservationist. Support habitat change, lobby to bring back hound hunting. But take away hunting opportunities does not breed future hunters and without future hunters we are all screwed.
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