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Is it time to push for a new system, draw, alternating year, etc?

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Author Topic: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)  (Read 14983 times)

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #90 on: October 12, 2017, 04:45:48 PM »
Nevada Predator Specialist Challenges Excuses,

Cites Need for Predator Control to Restore Deer



http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2029%20June-July%202008%20Nevada%20Predator%20Specialist%20Challenges%20Excuses,%20Cites%20Need%20for%20Predator%20Control%20to%20Restore%20Deer.pdf




Wolf Predation: More Bad News
By preying mostly on the elk, wolves can/will take the more vulnerable mule deer to exceedingly low levels or extinction. The wolves that were turned loose in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming have preyed primarily on elk and there are data on how many elk each wolf kills per year––22 elk/wolf/year––but there is little data from those states or anywhere else on the effect of wolf predation on mule deer. To put it simply, mule deer decline so rapidly that there is nothing left to study!

Hunter harvest of black-tailed deer on Vancouver Island though, gives some idea of what will happen if pro-wolf advocates have their way. Before wolves arrived, sportsmen on Vancouver Island took home around 25,000 blacktails a year. Now that wolves have overrun the island, the figure has plummeted to less than 4,000 deer a year. Moreover, blacktails are now found in reasonable abundance only where they live in suburbs or cities; i.e., the deer have moved into towns to avoid predators.

http://westinstenv.org/wildpeop/2008/09 … -bad-news/

The above link doesn’t work anymore, but there are other articles that state the same info.

Offline Whitenuckles

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #91 on: October 12, 2017, 05:28:26 PM »
I voted no. Let's start with predator management before we screw with people's hunting. But, I'm totally on board for eliminating doe tags.
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Offline bigmacc

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #92 on: October 12, 2017, 08:11:33 PM »
I voted no. Let's start with predator management before we screw with people's hunting. But, I'm totally on board for eliminating doe tags.

Once again, predators ARE a problem but not even close to fixing the issue of declining mule deer herds in this state, there are a couple other threads that have popped up prior that talks about the "parade" the "circus",  the pilgrimage and what ever else you want to call it that is heading east this weekend, these "pumpkin patches" that we have seen sprouting up over the last few decades are also a problem. Once again, there are many pieces to the puzzle. Months ago I posted the "3 P,s" are what is ruining mule deer hunting in the Methow at least, PEOPLE, PREDATORS AND PRESSURE. If each one of these are not addressed hunting in the Methow as some of us remember 15 to 20 years ago (let alone 50 years ago) will be nothing but a fond memory. Mark my words.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 08:40:18 PM by bigmacc »

Offline jagermiester

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #93 on: October 12, 2017, 09:27:58 PM »
I voted no. Let's start with predator management before we screw with people's hunting. But, I'm totally on board for eliminating doe tags.

Once again, predators ARE a problem but not even close to fixing the issue of declining mule deer herds in this state, there are a couple other threads that have popped up prior that talks about the "parade" the "circus",  the pilgrimage and what ever else you want to call it that is heading east this weekend, these "pumpkin patches" that we have seen sprouting up over the last few decades are also a problem. Once again, there are many pieces to the puzzle. Months ago I posted the "3 P,s" are what is ruining mule deer hunting in the Methow at least, PEOPLE, PREDATORS AND PRESSURE. If each one of these are not addressed hunting in the Methow as some of us remember 15 to 20 years ago (let alone 50 years ago) will be nothing but a fond memory. Mark my words.

I understand what you are saying but at the same time look at the numbers we get 9 days to hunt and most people hunt the first three days then go to their kids soccer game the next weekend. Earlier in this thread it was said that sportsmans clubs were a big deal. Everyone keeps wanting to relive the glory days but whats funny is in the glory days everyone hunted and the seasons were long. I used to hunt areas that had more deer and when it sucked I moved on. Stop hunting the Methow and move on to better hunting grounds but mark my words if you don't provide good habitat and protect the does and fawns from predators including human hunting, nothing will get better. We noticed a decline in deer where I hunt and we were seeing a ton of cougar sign. I would like to say I killed the cat but I didn't, Something happened though we are seeing way less cougar sign and a ton of deer. Mule deer. Stay the course boys, protect the does and kill the predators, Provide habitat and be a conservationist. Without us everything will fall. Take away opportunity and there will be less of us. Get your kid's and grandkid's into hunting.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 06:03:15 AM by jagermiester »
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #94 on: October 12, 2017, 10:40:49 PM »
I voted no. Let's start with predator management before we screw with people's hunting. But, I'm totally on board for eliminating doe tags.

Once again, predators ARE a problem but not even close to fixing the issue of declining mule deer herds in this state, there are a couple other threads that have popped up prior that talks about the "parade" the "circus",  the pilgrimage and what ever else you want to call it that is heading east this weekend, these "pumpkin patches" that we have seen sprouting up over the last few decades are also a problem. Once again, there are many pieces to the puzzle. Months ago I posted the "3 P,s" are what is ruining mule deer hunting in the Methow at least, PEOPLE, PREDATORS AND PRESSURE. If each one of these are not addressed hunting in the Methow as some of us remember 15 to 20 years ago (let alone 50 years ago) will be nothing but a fond memory. Mark my words.

I understand what you are saying but at the same time look at the numbers we get 9 days to hunt and most people hunt the first three days then go to their kids soccer game the next weekend. Earlier in this thread it was said that sportsmans clubs were a big deal. Everyone keeps wanting to relive the glory days but whats funny is in the glory days everyone hunted and the seasons were long.

 This is one of the contributing factors to ever decreasing numbers IMO. "back in the day".........and not that long ago in reality, the general season was much longer......AND we had ALOT more hunters, yet we still seldom saw more than a handful of hunters each day when we went out.

 Fast forward to "the new management"........shorten the season to the point that EVERYONE asked for the same week off and EVERYONE is forced to hunt the exact same week as the next guy. Even with a lot less total hunters purchasing tags, with all of them in the woods at the same time, the escapement or survivability for any legal buck in the area is virtually zero.

 I've been saying for years, get rid of the late permit hunts and run the general season through Oct. This would spread the pressure out over a greater amount of time, allowing hunters to not be forced to "combat hunt" and allow the rut to take place unpressured....like it used to be. Add in the fact that today there are A LOT less hunters than there were when that was how the season ran, and IMO the numbers would improve. :twocents:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 09:38:44 AM by huntnphool »
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Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #95 on: October 13, 2017, 05:36:45 AM »
Problem is back in "The Day" you didn't have the different numbers of user groups i.e. Rifle, bow, muzzle, etc. In the good ol days take blacktail for example there was a 4 or 3 day late season for blacktail typically around Nov 15-19th. It was during this time when a majority of the blacktail were taken. Now the state saw this as a money making opportunity and created special permits for this time frame. It's all about $$$$ for the WDFW  but what happens to that cash pot when the resource is depleted?

Offline Gobble

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #96 on: October 13, 2017, 05:42:57 AM »
I voted NO, we need to manage the predators first, once they are kept in check the deer will rebound quickly

Offline bigmacc

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #97 on: October 13, 2017, 06:27:52 AM »
I voted no. Let's start with predator management before we screw with people's hunting. But, I'm totally on board for eliminating doe tags.

Once again, predators ARE a problem but not even close to fixing the issue of declining mule deer herds in this state, there are a couple other threads that have popped up prior that talks about the "parade" the "circus",  the pilgrimage and what ever else you want to call it that is heading east this weekend, these "pumpkin patches" that we have seen sprouting up over the last few decades are also a problem. Once again, there are many pieces to the puzzle. Months ago I posted the "3 P,s" are what is ruining mule deer hunting in the Methow at least, PEOPLE, PREDATORS AND PRESSURE. If each one of these are not addressed hunting in the Methow as some of us remember 15 to 20 years ago (let alone 50 years ago) will be nothing but a fond memory. Mark my words.

I understand what you are saying but at the same time look at the numbers we get 9 days to hunt and most people hunt the first three days then go to their kids soccer game the next weekend. Earlier in this thread it was said that sportsmans clubs were a big deal. Everyone keeps wanting to relive the glory days but whats funny is in the glory days everyone hunted and the seasons were long.

 This is one of the contributing factors to ever decreasing numbers IMO. "back in the day".........and not that lady no ago in reality, the general season was much longer......AND we had ALOT more hunters, yet we still seldom saw more than a handful of hunters each day when we went out.

 Fast forward to "the new management"........shorten the season to the point that EVERYONE asked for the same week off and EVERYONE is forced to hunt the exact same week as the next guy. Even with a lot less total hunters purchasing tags, with all of them in the woods at the same time, the escapement or survivability for any legal buck in the area is virtually zero.

 I've been saying for years, get rid of the late permit hunts and run the general season through Oct. This would spread the pressure out over a greater amount of time, allowing hunters to not be forced to "combat hunt" and allow the rut to take place unpressured....like it used to be. Add in the fact that today there are A LOT less hunters than there were when that was how the season ran, and IMO the numbers would improve. :twocents:

Great post phool :tup: I couldn't agree more. The issue is defiantly not just a one headed snake I,m afraid.

Offline Odell

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #98 on: October 13, 2017, 06:40:04 AM »
I voted no because I believe that the does need to be protected from predators. We all need to start hunting cats  ;)
Seriously though there is no coming back from such a drastic change as what is being proposed. Deer numbers fluctuate but we are the true conservationist. Support habitat change, lobby to bring back hound hunting. But take away hunting opportunities does not breed future hunters and without future hunters we are all screwed.
In one year 100 deer can turn into 150
year two 250
year three 400
Kill a cat :o

I was thinking the same thing. When our big game seasons end we might each do a predator focused hunt. Enough people do this and it will have an impact.
what in the wild wild world of sports???

Offline Odell

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #99 on: October 13, 2017, 06:45:24 AM »
Also, hound hunting in this state is never coming back. That is a battle lost.

If we are going to spend energy lobbying for anything it should be a protection of hunting rights. We need a ballot initiative proposal that ensures fish and game management decisions are made by fish and game. It is madness that the general population can legislate in areas they know nothing about. 
what in the wild wild world of sports???

Offline bigmacc

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #100 on: October 13, 2017, 07:26:34 AM »
Also, hound hunting in this state is never coming back. That is a battle lost.

If we are going to spend energy lobbying for anything it should be a protection of hunting rights. We need a ballot initiative proposal that ensures fish and game management decisions are made by fish and game. It is madness that the general population can legislate in areas they know nothing about.

One of the big problems as I mentioned before is decisions are not being made by the "Fish and Game" dept any more, they are now the WDFW, when they were Fish and Game, hunting, fishing, GAME management were top priorities now they have to cater to lots of other user groups. Like I said this whole issue of declining mule deer herds is a many headed snake. :twocents:

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #101 on: October 13, 2017, 07:53:44 AM »
Any suggestions then?

Offline Bushcraft

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #102 on: October 13, 2017, 09:20:31 AM »
Any suggestions then?

How about prohibiting the use of two-way radios to unethically direct another hunter in on mule deer (and other big game animals)?

I know of at least one mule deer buck that would likely have lived to see another day if a unethical father/son combo hadn't used radios during this year's High Buck season.  Two last year.
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #103 on: October 13, 2017, 09:49:25 AM »
Any suggestions then?

How about prohibiting the use of two-way radios to unethically direct another hunter in on mule deer (and other big game animals)?

I know of at least one mule deer buck that would likely have lived to see another day if a unethical father/son combo hadn't used radios during this year's High Buck season.  Two last year.

 Thanks for the input, and I could be wrong but I don't think prohibiting the use of radio's is going to be a contributing factor in bringing our herds back to desirable levels. :dunno:


 .....and even if you prohibit radios, you are not going to get a cell phone ban, could be a topic for another discussion? :tup:
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Re: Washington State Mule Deer Hunting Future (poll)
« Reply #104 on: October 13, 2017, 10:02:06 AM »
Any suggestions then?

How about prohibiting the use of two-way radios to unethically direct another hunter in on mule deer (and other big game animals)?

I know of at least one mule deer buck that would likely have lived to see another day if a unethical father/son combo hadn't used radios during this year's High Buck season.  Two last year.

 Thanks for the input, and I could be wrong but I don't think prohibiting the use of radio's is going to be a contributing factor in bringing our herds back to desirable levels. :dunno:


 .....and even if you prohibit radios, you are not going to get a cell phone ban, could be a topic for another discussion? :tup:

Beat me too. Way bigger fish to fry than use of radios  :twocents:
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