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Author Topic: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou  (Read 3035 times)

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2017, 03:17:58 PM »
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.

Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2017, 03:40:05 PM »
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.


I always wondered why nothing has ever been mentioned about the Caribou, for anyone. I think I asked you this question a couple years ago anyhow...Thanks
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Offline ribka

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2017, 08:43:35 AM »
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.

Can exploding wolf populations be adequately controlled through selective removal by shooting them?

Of course we all know the can't and so does cnw an organization that is run by an ecoterrorist

Have to be fool to believe any propaganda and fake news from cnw

Offline mfswallace

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2017, 10:03:00 AM »
Too little, too late.
It's late, but we have the choice of letting them go or trying something... and I tend to favor action.

Real action would be wdfw pulling there heads out of the sand and quit placating the unrealistic " enviro/animal" groups to drastically reduce ALL predators with ALL options on the table. Pretty simple and easy to see to anyone with common sense imo
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Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2017, 11:08:19 AM »
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.

Can exploding wolf populations be adequately controlled through selective removal by shooting them?

Of course we all know the can't and so does cnw an organization that is run by an ecoterrorist

Have to be fool to believe any propaganda and fake news from cnw
Do you know much about the wolf removal program?  We have a trapper working the area pretty much full time watching for sign, when wolves are in the area he is trapping them, collaring them and using the collar to locate the rest of the pack.  Once we know the pack location, they are monitored and if the get near the caribou recovery area, a helicopter is used to shoot/remove the pack. 

If you have a better method- I'm all ears.

Offline ribka

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2017, 08:52:51 PM »
Cnw has come out and publically opposed trapping and using dogs to hunt predators and control wolf populations that have decimated mule deer elk moose and caribou populations in Canada and thenUS.
That is an undisputed fact just like CNW is run by an anti hunting ecoterrorist.

Please provide proof CNW is not run by an anti hunting eco terrorist

The simple truth is CNW is run by an avowed and proud  eco terrorist who spiked trees that caused injuries to innocent loggersjust trying to make a living and feed their families

Some of cnw staff are anti hunting and want to end all hunting in the US and Canada

I can think of no reason to support cnw as a hunter

Now if you want to expand the exploding wolf populations and end deer elk moose hunting in the US and decimate caribou herds I would say support CNW

CNW has strong alliances with anti hunting oraganizations

Keep spreading lies but CNW is no supporter of hunting


Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2017, 03:51:25 PM »
Cnw has come out and publically opposed trapping and using dogs to hunt predators and control wolf populations that have decimated mule deer elk moose and caribou populations in Canada and thenUS.
That is an undisputed fact just like CNW is run by an anti hunting ecoterrorist.

Please provide proof CNW is not run by an anti hunting eco terrorist

The simple truth is CNW is run by an avowed and proud  eco terrorist who spiked trees that caused injuries to innocent loggersjust trying to make a living and feed their families

Some of cnw staff are anti hunting and want to end all hunting in the US and Canada

I can think of no reason to support cnw as a hunter

Now if you want to expand the exploding wolf populations and end deer elk moose hunting in the US and decimate caribou herds I would say support CNW

CNW has strong alliances with anti hunting oraganizations

Keep spreading lies but CNW is no supporter of hunting


What lies am I spreading?  CNW supported the wolf removal to save caribou, that is a well documented fact.  It's not up to me to provide proof that CNW is an ecoterror organization...YOU are the one making the claim and it's up to you to provide the proof, which you have none.  Mitch Friedman started off as a pretty hard core environmentalist, that's true.  Since then he's become more politically savvy and far more moderate.  In fact, he hunts and fishes every year (I know because I traded him elk meat for tuna). 

Which staff do you know that "wants to end all hunting in the US and Canada"?

BTW- this thread wasn't about CNW or hunting at all.  It started off about caribou recovery, which is lacking hunter support at this point. 

Offline timberfaller

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2017, 04:55:39 PM »
"It's not up to me to provide proof that CNW is an ecoterror organization...YOU are the one making the claim and it's up to you to provide the proof,"

It is if your posting "support" of said group or persons.

As far as Mitch F. is concerned YEP he became more "politically savvy" but he is still hard core!  YOU can thank him the next time you see him for the condition of the Loomis Forest, whats left of it, along with the rest of his crowd.

He is of the same caliber of person like the USFS employee who filed suit against the USFS for their "fire line" that was built near Lake Wenatchee in case the Wolverine Fire made it there.  Low and behold he was found out to be a former "trial lawyer" for the Sierra Club.   I'll let the sink if for a spell.   Trial Lawyer, gets hired as a "USFS" employee(big cut in pay)turns around and sues his "boss",  do you remember a group called "Green Peace"?  Study their "tactics"! :yike:  Its called, infiltrate, divide then conquer.   Still being used today!

Google's your friend!   Always research people's Bio's.  It takes time but you'll find out where, what and why they do the things they do and where they got indoctrinated.
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Offline Bushcraft

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2017, 07:54:36 PM »
I was appointed to serve on WDFW's Diversity Advisory Council. Other than myself there are only a few people that buy hunting licenses, or fishing licenses for that matter, but I digress.  I would humbly and respectfully submit that the other license holders really don't seem to get out in the field and do a lot of hunting from the sounds of it during the conversations I've had with them.

Anyway, from time to time we are charged with reviewing various Species of Concern and providing the Director with our recommendations on whether to uplist, downlist or maintain a particular species.  Ours is simply a recommendation from a "diverse" body comprised of mostly non-game species interests.

Early on in my three year term we were asked to review three separate species, one of which was this particular subspecies of Woodland Caribou facing the grim reality of extirpation. We reviewed an extensive amount of material and presentations supplied by the Department.  Our findings indicated that all three required maintaining their endangered status, and rightly so.

This is where it gets interesting...

A formal letter was drafted by the Chair, one Fred Koontz, ex-overling at the Woodland Park Zoo.  For background purposes, Koontz is a progressive liberal Democrat and super duper good buddy of Conservation Northwest's own Mitch Friedman.  Koontz really, really, really wants to work with Penny Becker and others to "fundamentally transform' the Department, and do so quickly.

For each of the other two species a significant amount of verbiage was put into a draft letter that urged the Director to take various Short, Intermediate and Long-Term steps to try and improve these three species' listing status.

Well...almost all three.  In the case of the Woodland Caribou, the only recommendation was a long term solution to improve old growth forests (or some such).  Say what???

Myself and the incoming President of the Cattlemen's Association took issue with the obvious problem: The draft letter did not address or provide a solution to the near term problem that ALL of the research material we were given plainly pointed to...predators, specifically wolves, bears and to a lesser extent cougars.  This subspecies of Woodland Caribou was facing imminent extirpation from predators.

When he an I politely raised the issue and requested the draft letter to the Director be amended to include language for increased predator control to protect the last of these Caribou, we were summarily ignored or dismissed as being anti-wolf.  We then asked that the draft letter reflect that a minority of the group wanted to increase predator control they all balked.  When the two of us (out of 15 or so) politely raised a big enough stink about it, the Koontz simply stripped all the near term, mid-term and long-term recommendation language out of the letter and told the Director in essentially a one sentence paragraph to maintain the listing status of all the species.

Imagine that...a cherry picked group of people in WDFW's Diversity Advisory Council couldn't see fit to put the needs of a genuinely endangered species on the brink of extirpation (Woodland Caribou) above a species that isn't actually endangered (wolves).

And there you have it folks.
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Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2017, 08:58:42 PM »
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.

Offline ribka

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2017, 09:28:04 PM »
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.

One of CNW's staff is s member of virulent ato hunting group

Howling for Wolves CNW and Friedman have close ties with the anti hunting group that has shut down hunting in many states called the sierra club

Amazing that someone on a hunting website support s an eco terrorist that is on record engaging in legislation that shut down hunting seasons


Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2017, 09:53:03 PM »
What does CNW have to do with the maternal pen or with caribou recovery? 

Offline Jake Dogfish

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2017, 10:13:34 PM »
How do you go about showing "proof that someone is not a eco-terrorist."?

Find info about there mining claims or oil holdings?  Seems like a difficult task.

Offline buglebrush

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2017, 11:04:09 PM »
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.

Can exploding wolf populations be adequately controlled through selective removal by shooting them?

Of course we all know the can't and so does cnw an organization that is run by an ecoterrorist

Have to be fool to believe any propaganda and fake news from cnw
Do you know much about the wolf removal program?  We have a trapper working the area pretty much full time watching for sign, when wolves are in the area he is trapping them, collaring them and using the collar to locate the rest of the pack.  Once we know the pack location, they are monitored and if the get near the caribou recovery area, a helicopter is used to shoot/remove the pack. 

If you have a better method- I'm all ears.

How about just opening season like in Idaho.  It's BS.  I have wolves in five different cameras in 113.  I found a Caribou shed 200 yards from one camera that gets wolves all summer. 

Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2017, 06:54:57 AM »
Thank God a friend of mine killed a wolf a couple years ago on the Idaho side of the Salmo.....when he was trapping.
I could care less about what anybody says..............

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2017, 06:56:30 AM »
I was appointed to serve on WDFW's Diversity Advisory Council. Other than myself there are only a few people that buy hunting licenses, or fishing licenses for that matter, but I digress.  I would humbly and respectfully submit that the other license holders really don't seem to get out in the field and do a lot of hunting from the sounds of it during the conversations I've had with them.

Anyway, from time to time we are charged with reviewing various Species of Concern and providing the Director with our recommendations on whether to uplist, downlist or maintain a particular species.  Ours is simply a recommendation from a "diverse" body comprised of mostly non-game species interests.

Early on in my three year term we were asked to review three separate species, one of which was this particular subspecies of Woodland Caribou facing the grim reality of extirpation. We reviewed an extensive amount of material and presentations supplied by the Department.  Our findings indicated that all three required maintaining their endangered status, and rightly so.

This is where it gets interesting...

A formal letter was drafted by the Chair, one Fred Koontz, ex-overling at the Woodland Park Zoo.  For background purposes, Koontz is a progressive liberal Democrat and super duper good buddy of Conservation Northwest's own Mitch Friedman.  Koontz really, really, really wants to work with Penny Becker and others to "fundamentally transform' the Department, and do so quickly.

For each of the other two species a significant amount of verbiage was put into a draft letter that urged the Director to take various Short, Intermediate and Long-Term steps to try and improve these three species' listing status.

Well...almost all three.  In the case of the Woodland Caribou, the only recommendation was a long term solution to improve old growth forests (or some such).  Say what???

Myself and the incoming President of the Cattlemen's Association took issue with the obvious problem: The draft letter did not address or provide a solution to the near term problem that ALL of the research material we were given plainly pointed to...predators, specifically wolves, bears and to a lesser extent cougars.  This subspecies of Woodland Caribou was facing imminent extirpation from predators.

When he an I politely raised the issue and requested the draft letter to the Director be amended to include language for increased predator control to protect the last of these Caribou, we were summarily ignored or dismissed as being anti-wolf.  We then asked that the draft letter reflect that a minority of the group wanted to increase predator control they all balked.  When the two of us (out of 15 or so) politely raised a big enough stink about it, the Koontz simply stripped all the near term, mid-term and long-term recommendation language out of the letter and told the Director in essentially a one sentence paragraph to maintain the listing status of all the species.

Imagine that...a cherry picked group of people in WDFW's Diversity Advisory Council couldn't see fit to put the needs of a genuinely endangered species on the brink of extirpation (Woodland Caribou) above a species that isn't actually endangered (wolves).

And there you have it folks.

Thanks for sharing, Bushcraft :tup:.

I don't think what you wrote surprises too many people, the wolf is being used to further an agenda, any type of wolf control would set a precedence which in turn could be used for more wolf control in the future, not something that WDF&Wolves plus their fake environmental partners want.

The wolves are being used to end hunting and get livestock off public lands, once that is accomplished it will be easier to close these lands to the public.

The USFS are promoting the same agenda, through lack of wilderness trail maintenance and fire, closing roads, and fighting to restrict ATV's on forest roads etc..

And then there's the park service.

Caution advised on North Cascades grizzly bear plans

"The National Park Service has received 120,000 comments on its plan to reintroduce grizzly bears to North Cascades National Park."

http://www.capitalpress.com/Opinion/Editorials/20170512/caution-advised-on-north-cascades-grizzly-bear-plans


Restore the Grizzly Bear to the North Cascades

“Grizzly bears are highly intelligent, charismatic animals,” said Joe Scott, International Programs Director for Conservation Northwest”


https://www.npca.org/articles/1441-restore-the-grizzly-bear-to-the-north-cascades




Grizzly Bears

"Many factors affect grizzly bear populations: they require a large home range;there is increasingly little protected land available to them;their reproductive rate is very slow;and they are vulnerable to poaching and other human-caused mortality."

https://www.nps.gov/noca/learn/nature/grizzly-bears.htm


Do grizzly bears belong in Washington state?

"In the U.S., the North Cascades feature more than 2.6 million acres of federally designated wilderness, including North Cascades National Park and surrounding wilderness areas. This region, known as the North Cascades Ecosystem (NCE), has the space and resources to support about 280 grizzlies, according to a 2016 report for the Skagit Environmental Endowment Commission.”

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/blogs/grizzly-bears-north-cascades


All one big happy family working together behind the scenes implementing their agendas in their quest to close public lands to the public. :twocents:

The wolf threw the baby out with the bath water. With very few ungulates left what will grizzly bears eat?




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« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 07:35:20 AM by wolfbait »

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2017, 07:14:32 AM »
CNW supports the wolf removal.  They made an official statement to that effect.  I don't know about their funding or any lawsuits having to do with wolf removal. 

The only lawsuit having to do with Caribou is one to delist them in the states, brought by snowmobile clubs.

Can exploding wolf populations be adequately controlled through selective removal by shooting them?

Of course we all know the can't and so does cnw an organization that is run by an ecoterrorist

Have to be fool to believe any propaganda and fake news from cnw
Do you know much about the wolf removal program?  We have a trapper working the area pretty much full time watching for sign, when wolves are in the area he is trapping them, collaring them and using the collar to locate the rest of the pack.  Once we know the pack location, they are monitored and if the get near the caribou recovery area, a helicopter is used to shoot/remove the pack. 

If you have a better method- I'm all ears.

How about just opening season like in Idaho.  It's BS.  I have wolves in five different cameras in 113.  I found a Caribou shed 200 yards from one camera that gets wolves all summer. 
That would be nice, but it's not in the cards yet.  Hunting/Trapping probably wouldn't be enough to control the wolves in that portion anyway.  It's very remote and no one would trap up there.  Even in Idaho, there are only a couple trappers and pretty much no one goes north of Hughes Meadows (~20+ mile sled trip each way). 

We're not in favor of a wide scale wolf removal, but we do want them removed from the caribou recovery area and that area maintained.

Offline Special T

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2017, 08:12:05 AM »
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.
Tribes are taking the lead because they can tell the likes of CNW and the WDFW to pound sand.

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Offline jackelope

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2017, 08:19:04 AM »
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.
Tribes are taking the lead because they can tell the likes of CNW and the WDFW to pound sand.

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Refer to current Yakama and Colville tribal pronghorn antelope projects for further support of this....
:fire.:

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My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Special T

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2017, 08:30:08 AM »
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.
Tribes are taking the lead because they can tell the likes of CNW and the WDFW to pound sand.

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Refer to current Yakama and Colville tribal pronghorn antelope projects for further support of this....
And how many wolves on the Colville rez do you think go unreported?  The wolf issue makes it much easier for me to understand the disdain tribes have of the state's laws. The fact that wolves are federally delisted in the NE make me dream of rouge Indians stacking up wolves.

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Offline Bushcraft

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2017, 09:51:26 AM »
I believe that.  The state has not done much for Caribou, at all.  In fact, they let the Salmo Pack wolf collar die and have cite the wolf plan as the reason we can't re.ove it entirely...meanwhile they remove packf ro killing cattle and sheep. 

It's a frustrating situation, and that's exactly why the tribes are taking the lead.
Tribes are taking the lead because they can tell the likes of CNW and the WDFW to pound sand.

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Refer to current Yakama and Colville tribal pronghorn antelope projects for further support of this....

Nailed it.  Next up...the Spokane tribe.
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Offline boneaddict

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2017, 10:15:19 AM »
Unfortunately the tribe(colville) though willing to act isnt acting fast or hard enough.   The wolves are starting to impact their herds hard. Im guessing theyll realize this maybe this fall when they do their counts.   Basically, nothing short of poision, is going to stop the wolves now. Im not wanting to make this thread about wolves though.  The Selkirks are a unique place and I hope these steps to help with recovery work, though I'm very skeptical .   Thank you for your efforts.

Offline CGDucksandDeer

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2017, 05:00:09 PM »
I'm not interested in responding to Ribka's standard tin-hat obsessions, but for the record here's Conservation Northwest's official statement in support of the BC wolf cull to reduce mountain caribou mortality: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/bc-announces-wolf-cull-to-protect-endangered-selkirks-caribou/

Discussions about the org's position on predator (and white-tail and moose, which draw in predators) control in northeast Washington caribou territory to protect the South Selkirks herd are underway. More on the org's work for caribou here: www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/mountain-caribou/. Through CNW is not involved in the maternity penning project, we definitely support it and are glad to see the tribes, the province of B.C., USFWS and The Nature Conservancy moving forward. Good on them.

Also, you can call him names or go on about Mitch's admittedly controversial background all you want, but he's certainly not anti-hunting. He's out of the office trying to fill his tag on a Westside blacktail right now.

Funny Ribka brings up our part-time IT guy. Does IT set strategic direction in any organization or business? Because while he is a vegan and generally a good guy and solid employee, he's not doing so here.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 05:09:50 PM by CGDucksandDeer »

Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2017, 05:14:47 PM »
Looks like the eco-terrorist group, CNW, has made it clear, that they will only support wolf killing if their demands are met. Typical of these groups, instead of just, DO IT !!!!
I could care less about what anybody says..............

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2017, 07:00:29 AM »
This will require some critical thinking, but has it occurred to anyone who thinks wolves do no harm, that if the wolves can effectively find and wipe out a couple dozen caribou that roam hundreds of thousands of remote acres in two states and a Canadian province, imagine the huge numbers of deer, elk, and moose, or whatever else they cross the path of, that they wipe out?
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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