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Author Topic: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou  (Read 3317 times)

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2017, 07:23:53 AM »
This will require some critical thinking, but has it occurred to anyone who thinks wolves do no harm, that if the wolves can effectively find and wipe out a couple dozen caribou that roam hundreds of thousands of remote acres in two states and a Canadian province, imagine the huge numbers of deer, elk, and moose, or whatever else they cross the path of, that they wipe out?

Before the wolf supporters can label me as "kill all the wolves" let me add, I think wolves are a pretty amazing creature, I would never want to see them wiped off the face of the earth. But, I am a realist, the reality is that wolves numbered 60,000 in North America before being introduced in the NRM states, they were never endangered, and they don't fit well in human populated areas thus the need for WDFW to remove problem wolves, wolves fit the best in wilderness and large parks.

Wyoming did it right, they held out for the right wolf plan, wolves are protected in 20% of the state that is wilderness and large park, wolves can be shot on sight in 80% of the state that is inhabited and is ranching country.

The actions of the wolf supporters speaks volumes to reinforce my previous comments. NE WA legislators have introduced legislation to share our wolves with west side counties but the wolfers don't want them. The wolfers don't want wolves in their neighborhood, they want wolves in our neighborhood, that is the moral to the whole wolf story! The urban wolfers want wolves in everyone else's neighborhood!

Before I get called out for name calling by using the term wolfer, I would point out that is the license plate of a leading wolf proponent, as far as I am aware it's a preferred name of pro wolf people.

My apologies to the OP for getting a little off topic. Getting back to that topic, I fully support doing whatever can be done to save these caribou, it would be a shame to let them vanish without trying to save them. Props to the OP and the tribe for their efforts. I am seriously discouraged and disgusted by the failure of WDFW to boldly address the decline of these truly endangered caribou while at the same time spending millions on wolves that are causing the problem and never were endangered.  :bash:
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Offline ribka

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2017, 07:54:38 AM »
Keep up with the name calling not surprised it is what you are paid to do but few on here are buying your propaganda.

As spokes person for anti hunting, pro wolf group CNW i know you are paid to spread propaganda. AND YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT LYING ON HERE MORE THAN ONCE with your false propaganda. CNW is on record and supported legislation to shut down hunting here in Washington and I have posted the proof and you failed to answer me. You always fail to answer direct questions on here by other members like the very basic question;"Does CNW support all forms of sport hunting?" You refused to answer this very basic question because your organization is a front. Your members are active in active hunting groups and you will not address this on here.

by here is the truth about CNW's founder Mitch Friedman a self admitted eco terrorist

In 1987, tree-spiking claimed its first known casualty: A California mill worker named George Anderson had his jaw shattered when a shard from a spiked tree, splintered by his band saw, ricocheted into his face. In response to the incident, Dave Foreman said: “It’s unfortunate this worker was injured and I wish him the best. But the real destruction and injury is being perpetrated by Louisiana-Pacific and the Forest Service in liquidating old-growth forests.” In 1988, EF member Mitch Friedman stated that “tree-spiking is not terrorism; it is a justifiably extreme and noble deed.” The real terrorism, Friedman said, was being committed by the logging industry. Reasoning from that premise, EF routinely advocated violence against members of the logging industry. As an article in the September 1989 edition of the Earth First! Journal stated: “The blood of timber executives is my natural drink, and the wail of dying forest supervisors is music to my ears.”

The above quote says it all about CNW and its true intent. Keep spreading lies but no one is believing them.


I'm not interested in responding to Ribka's standard tin-hat obsessions, but for the record here's Conservation Northwest's official statement in support of the BC wolf cull to reduce mountain caribou mortality: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/bc-announces-wolf-cull-to-protect-endangered-selkirks-caribou/

Discussions about the org's position on predator (and white-tail and moose, which draw in predators) control in northeast Washington caribou territory to protect the South Selkirks herd are underway. More on the org's work for caribou here: www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/mountain-caribou/. Through CNW is not involved in the maternity penning project, we definitely support it and are glad to see the tribes, the province of B.C., USFWS and The Nature Conservancy moving forward. Good on them.

Also, you can call him names or go on about Mitch's admittedly controversial background all you want, but he's certainly not anti-hunting. He's out of the office trying to fill his tag on a Westside blacktail right now.

Funny Ribka brings up our part-time IT guy. Does IT set strategic direction in any organization or business? Because while he is a vegan and generally a good guy and solid employee, he's not doing so here.

Offline ribka

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2017, 08:07:34 AM »

Our culture is currently in a war battling organizations that are putting out fake news and propaganda to manipulate the attitudes in our culture.

Keep up with the name calling and not surprised it is what you are paid to do  as spokes man for CNW. And you have done it on other outdoor websites when someone points out the truth about CNW, its founder's history  and misinformation and contradictions and lies in the propaganda you spread.

As spokes person for anti hunting, pro wolf group CNW i know you are paid to spread propaganda. AND YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT LYING ON HERE MORE THAN ONCE with your false propaganda. CNW is on record and supported legislation to shut down hunting here in Washington and I have posted the proof and you failed to answer me. You always fail to answer direct questions on here by other members like the very basic question;"Does CNW support all forms of sport hunting?" You refused to answer this very basic question because your organization is a front. Your members are active in active hunting groups, CNW has close collaborations and activism with anti hunting groups like Sierra club which is posted on CNW facebook page  and you will not address this on here.

by here is the truth again about CNW's founder Mitch Friedman a self admitted eco terrorist and his true character

In 1987, tree-spiking claimed its first known casualty: A California mill worker named George Anderson had his jaw shattered when a shard from a spiked tree, splintered by his band saw, ricocheted into his face. In response to the incident, Dave Foreman said: “It’s unfortunate this worker was injured and I wish him the best. But the real destruction and injury is being perpetrated by Louisiana-Pacific and the Forest Service in liquidating old-growth forests.” In 1988, EF member Mitch Friedman stated that “tree-spiking is not terrorism; it is a justifiably extreme and noble deed.” The real terrorism, Friedman said, was being committed by the logging industry. Reasoning from that premise, EF routinely advocated violence against members of the logging industry. As an article in the September 1989 edition of the Earth First! Journal stated: “The blood of timber executives is my natural drink, and the wail of dying forest supervisors is music to my ears.”

The above quote says it all about CNW and its true intent. Keep spreading lies but no one is believing them.


I'm not interested in responding to Ribka's standard tin-hat obsessions, but for the record here's Conservation Northwest's official statement in support of the BC wolf cull to reduce mountain caribou mortality: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/bc-announces-wolf-cull-to-protect-endangered-selkirks-caribou/

Discussions about the org's position on predator (and white-tail and moose, which draw in predators) control in northeast Washington caribou territory to protect the South Selkirks herd are underway. More on the org's work for caribou here: www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/mountain-caribou/. Through CNW is not involved in the maternity penning project, we definitely support it and are glad to see the tribes, the province of B.C., USFWS and The Nature Conservancy moving forward. Good on them.

Also, you can call him names or go on about Mitch's admittedly controversial background all you want, but he's certainly not anti-hunting. He's out of the office trying to fill his tag on a Westside blacktail right now.

Funny Ribka brings up our part-time IT guy. Does IT set strategic direction in any organization or business? Because while he is a vegan and generally a good guy and solid employee, he's not doing so here.

Offline nwwanderer

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2017, 07:40:14 AM »
Full of questions here.  Export/import papers secure?  All in Canada?  Expected death loss?  Transportation protocol?  Feed change and procedures researched?  Bunk breaking procedure?  Nutritional requirements met?  Catch and release timeline?  Some one here may know who to ask, WDFW not likely to have the answers

Offline HighCountryHunter88

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2017, 08:00:50 AM »
CAN WE PLEASE KEEP THIS POST ON TOPIC ABOUT THE CARIBOU, THIS IS NOT A CNW OR WOLF TOPIC. MODS, ADMIN
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Offline wolfbait

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2017, 09:52:58 AM »
CAN WE PLEASE KEEP THIS POST ON TOPIC ABOUT THE CARIBOU, THIS IS NOT A CNW OR WOLF TOPIC. MODS, ADMIN


I kind of think it is a CNW etc. wolf topic, after all it is the wolves that have pushed everything off the cliff, and  CNW, DoW and WDF&wolves have been in the wolf introduction business even before the illegal wolf introduction into the Yellowstone and Idaho of 1995-96.

How can you get to the truth if you try to hide all the facts?


Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2017, 09:57:59 AM »
CAN WE PLEASE KEEP THIS POST ON TOPIC ABOUT THE CARIBOU, THIS IS NOT A CNW OR WOLF TOPIC. MODS, ADMIN

It is in the wolf board.

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2017, 10:55:51 AM »
This will require some critical thinking, but has it occurred to anyone who thinks wolves do no harm, that if the wolves can effectively find and wipe out a couple dozen caribou that roam hundreds of thousands of remote acres in two states and a Canadian province, imagine the huge numbers of deer, elk, and moose, or whatever else they cross the path of, that they wipe out?

Reminds me of the Methow deer!

I think WDF&wolves were trying to do a deer count yesterday via helicopter, they spent a bit of time just counting the town deer.

I wonder if they will be honest or will they say the herd is in great shape for the amount of HABITAT available.

Great point BP,

Back to caribou........

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2017, 07:43:18 PM »
Full of questions here.  Export/import papers secure?  All in Canada?  Expected death loss?  Transportation protocol?  Feed change and procedures researched?  Bunk breaking procedure?  Nutritional requirements met?  Catch and release timeline?  Some one here may know who to ask, WDFW not likely to have the answers
Good questions. 
No import or export papers needed.  The pen is in Canada and the caribou will be captured there and placed in the pen.  They will very likely be slung in with a helicopter.  We do not expect to lose any from capture, but that is always a possibility.  Obviously, we will mitigate risk everywhere we can.  The animals will be captured in early to mid march, fed lichen (supposedly they take to the feeders right away...?)  for the first week or so then weaned onto pelletized food, designed for caribou/reindeer.  They will be released when the calves are 6-9 weeks old, around mid july.  The release will depend on the insects, browse availability and health of the animals. 

Offline Jpmiller

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2017, 12:11:18 PM »
What is the typical calf survival rate for the herd in the wild?

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2017, 06:34:27 AM »
Pretty low return lately, 15% or so.  But keep in mind that with such a small number every animal is a large proportion. 

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2017, 06:50:11 AM »
That seems a very small number. I imagine at least 15% of the adult populations dies off every year. Hope these pens help turn it around.

Is the population large enough still to sustain without bringing more in?

Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2017, 11:24:44 AM »
Why are these little critters having such a stink made about them in 2017 and nary a word years before is my question ?

I could care less about what anybody says..............

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #63 on: December 09, 2017, 02:23:30 PM »
Because we have started making lots of noise.  There has been some work (not much) going on for years.  This year we we able to force some effort and get actual "boots on the ground" action

Offline Tbar

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2017, 03:01:00 PM »
 What are the odds of recovery? Is it too little too late? Why not a captive breeding program or any action prior to such low numbers? Also why are the pens in Canada?

Offline denali

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Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2017, 09:00:46 PM »
Because we have started making lots of noise.  There has been some work (not much) going on for years.  This year we we able to force some effort and get actual "boots on the ground" action


I hope it works out Bart..
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Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2017, 06:27:41 PM »
Because we have started making lots of noise.  There has been some work (not much) going on for years.  This year we we able to force some effort and get actual "boots on the ground" action


I hope it works out Bart..
Thanks- It's a tough job for sure, hopefully we can get this herd headed back in the right direction.  It was on a positive growth pattern for several years before wolf recovery, we need to keep wolf numbers down and keep this herd on the landscape as the habitat continues to develop.

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #69 on: December 10, 2017, 07:30:26 PM »
I sure hope they succeed in this huge undertaking.  :tup:
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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #70 on: December 11, 2017, 12:38:31 PM »
http://www.timescolonist.com/ontario-caribou-facing-wolf-attacks-to-be-moved-off-island-by-helicopter-1.23117174

Endangered caribou on an island in Lake Superior will be rounded up, blindfolded and placed inside a helicopter to travel to a new home early next year as the Ontario government tries to save them from a pack of wolves.

The complex relocation of the caribou from Michipicoten Island was announced by Ontario's minister of natural resources and forestry on Thursday, with the government noting that the animals are destined to join a small herd on another island where they'll roam free from predators.
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Troubles for the caribou began in the winter of 2013 when an ice bridge formed that allowed a small number of wolves to travel the 16 kilometres from the mainland to the island in northwestern Ontario, said ministry spokeswoman Jolanta Kowalski.

The ice bridge formed the following winter as well, and was considered a rare occurrence, Kowalski said.

Since then the wolves have systematically slaughtered the caribou to the point that the ministry is worried about the population's complete decimation.

"We're worried," Kowalski said. "The caribou numbers are down considerably."

A survey of the herd in 2011 showed 680 caribou on the island. Last year, there were only 120 caribou and about a dozen wolves.

Some of the caribou will be taken from Michipicoten Island to the Slate Islands, further north in Lake Superior, next year.

"We will be transporting a suitable portion of the caribou population to the Slate Islands to ensure the continued viability of this important species on an island free from predators," Natural Resources and Forestry Minister Kathryn McGarry said in a statement.

The ministry is working out the details, but said there are only about two to four bull caribou on Slate Islands. Kowalski said they're still figuring out how many caribou to bring over, but noted that they won't be moving the entire herd.

"We'll move enough that we can hopefully ensure the viability of the species on the Slate Islands," she said.

In a way the Michipicoten caribou will be returning home. In 1982, the ministry moved eight caribou from Slate Islands to Michipicoten Island and their population growth had long been considered a huge success, Kowalski said.

Historic records indicate there were caribou on the island in the early 1800s, Kowalski said, but they disappeared by the mid-1800s due to hunting.

The caribou getting a new home may be sedated for the move and are expected to have blindfolds and ear plugs to make them as comfortable as possible before they're placed on a large transport helicopter for the journey, Kowalski said.

The ministry is working with the Michipicoten First Nation to save the endangered animals, she added.

"Our hope is that the move goes well and the population survives," Kowalski said. "This is their best chance."
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Offline Stein

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #71 on: December 11, 2017, 10:40:42 PM »
Too little, too late.
It's late, but we have the choice of letting them go or trying something... and I tend to favor action.

Sure, throw a hundred grand at it and give it a shot, we don't have a bunch to lose at this point.  Who knows, if it ends up working you may get a number that starts to have the odds slowly tip in their favor.  It's not like shooting all the predators is even physically possible let alone politically viable.

Offline buglebrush

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2017, 03:45:36 PM »
Money down a rat hole if not coupled with extreme predator reduction.   :twocents:

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2017, 03:56:01 PM »
By the way did anyone else notice that Conservation Northwest is offering 10,000 to apprehend the person who killed two wolves in NE Washington?  What a bunch of idiots!   :bash:

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Re: Predator-proof pens ‘last-ditch effort’ to save Selkirk caribou
« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2017, 03:57:34 PM »
Man I hope these pens work. A lot of effort is going into saving these guys.
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