collapse
Sound like the real thing! Order Jason Phelps Calls Here

Author Topic: 328 - 329 True Spike Question  (Read 1563 times)

Offline camanofishn

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 16
328 - 329 True Spike Question
« on: November 07, 2017, 11:21:21 AM »
Just asking, any ideas how long the game department will keep the true spike law on the books?  Rumor is that this is the last year for the "true spike", not sure how true the rumor is.  I find it hard to identify a true spike when they are running.

Wondering how many Elk are killed that are not legal? It's a shame to waste any Elk.

From all of the hunting camps I saw during the general season the state continues to sell many tags.  I suspect that they will not change the law true spike law until the Elk tag sales decline. 

Your thoughts?




Offline steeleywhopper

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 1173
  • Location: Snohomish co.
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2017, 11:30:09 AM »
Biggest crock of crap rule ever put on us hunters. Hopefully they dump the rule soon.

Offline time2hunt

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 977
  • Location: Ellensburg
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 12:16:59 PM »
 But tell if this was not the best year in a long time for seeing multiple branched bulls in the herds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Local 3482

Offline Bullmoose

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 10
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 01:20:09 PM »
It has been nice seeing Cows and calves and large bulls

Offline JJJ

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 10
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 01:31:58 PM »
I was on the Colockum road Sat. 11/4.... Three game warden pickups were driving out with a large bull in the 2nd truck. I couldn't tell how large, but could see his last two points sticking out of the bed of the pickup.-- They were both at least 10" long.... On the same day, I talked with another game warden on the Naneum ridge road, and he said they were investigating TEN different cases involving illegal bull kills; mainly 1x2's--- The true spike rule needs to go away; it seems like people are not identifying the elk properly, and hoping that its a true spike on the other antler, or...???...-- Regardless, there's 10 bulls that WE KNOW OF killed.

Online vandeman17

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Old Salt
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 7756
  • Location: East Wenatchee
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 01:56:16 PM »
The spike rule is frustrating enough, and the true spike is just a little over the top. In a perfect world, it would be ok for a certain time frame if they truly felt it would improve herd health. The problem is, like stated, how many "hunters" out there shoot first and verify second. The elk that go to waste far outweighs the perceived benefits.  :twocents:
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline kball4

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2012
  • Posts: 213
  • Location: Kitsap County
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2017, 02:07:04 PM »
We talked to a guy who had the time to count 158 head of elk 2 spikes only 1 true spike in the herd, on the south end of Colockum. 1/158 is not good odds. 

Offline BreezyBear

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 52
  • Location: Central Washington
  • Groups: RMEF
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2017, 02:34:08 PM »
The Colockum is definitely in need of a new elk management plan........but time2hunt is absolutely correct, plenty of big bulls around this year!

Offline Moe the Sleaze

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 51
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2017, 02:35:49 PM »
I was in 328, saw a group of 50 at 40 yards, one 3-point and 49 cows.  Saw a group of 30 not in shooting range, two 3-points and 28 cows.  I only heard of ONE true spike being shot.

I continue to feel that hunting the 328 with true spike in place and no cow tag SUCKS.

Face it, anything "general" sucks anymore. :(


Offline yakimanoob

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 467
  • Location: Naches
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2017, 02:38:07 PM »
I've never been able to figure out the logic in the spike-only rule, except to simply reduce total harvest.  I don't really know the right answer though.

I can't accept the idea that since people don't follow the rules, we should dump the rules.  That seems nuts to me.  If we may it 3pt or better, we'll be telling stories of people shooting spikes.  If we make it any bull, I imagine we'll see a big drop in herd numbers. 


Offline Rainier10

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 6311
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2017, 02:46:12 PM »
So the solution to a few people shooting 1x2's and getting ticketed or letting them waste is to open it up to everyone to shoot 1x2's?  With that logic we should open up hunting year round because the poachers are doing it.

I will say with the true spike rule in place I am seeing way more mature bulls in my area.

For my early archery bull hunt I was working a heard of 100 cows and 13 5pt or better bulls.  On the last day of the hunt I was in a herd of 200 elk and I counted 29 6x6 bulls go over the ridge.

When I was out the second weekend of muzzy season with my daughter we kept bumping solo bulls, they had left the cows already by the second weekend.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline GreggHunts2hard4u

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 145
  • Location: Bonney Lake
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2017, 02:55:03 PM »
I talked to a Sergeant in the wind farm, brought up how long true spike will continue. Heck of a nice guy weve seen our fair share of Sergeants up there over the years. He explained that its up to the biologist that fly around and do their counts and if they dont see what they want they keep true spike and decide whether or not to give archer's free reign on cows or give out cow permits to the rifle hunters. Where we were camped for the season, we saw no sign of elk sat-tues. Wed and thurs we were into 200+ both days in our area i was close quarters pursuing a herd of 100+ that had a few small branched bulls and atleast 1 true spike which i sucessfully harvested after 16yrs of hunting my area hard and learning the area and where the elk tend to be. Its a tough area to hunt ive had a lot of years of discouraging years. The constant hunting pressure from September 1st till modern opener is pretty rough on the elk herd, they get no break. I personally saw 6 true spikes including mine that were hanging from meat poles over 7 days straight up there. Then only a couple of cows when we left Friday at noon. I gave up hoping it'll change from True Spike years ago.  It is what it is but its the biologist that decide what we get to hunt

Offline GreggHunts2hard4u

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 145
  • Location: Bonney Lake
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2017, 03:02:30 PM »
According to wdfw officers ive talked with, true spikes aren't breeder bulls. They say the branched bulls are more likely to try to breed than the baby true spikes.  :dunno: makes sense to me. Either way if we conserve the bulls they will be killed by the natives no matter what because their ancestors killed them many moons ago up there. Lets manage the herd by allowing the natives to only harvest cows and our bull to cow ratio will be golden in a few years
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 03:08:30 PM by GreggHunts2hard4u »

Offline bowhunterforever

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 7605
  • Location: Lincoln, Co
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2017, 03:06:41 PM »
Tagging
You know how to skin griz pilgram

Offline time2hunt

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 977
  • Location: Ellensburg
328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2017, 03:08:14 PM »
Is the true spike is working perfectly the answer is no. But look at the bright side that unit went from 3-5 big bull tags a year to 21-23 tags a year so the system is working on getting the carry over they need.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Local 3482

Offline 7mmfan

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 2450
  • Location: Marysville
    • https://www.facebook.com/rory.oconnor.9480
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2017, 03:10:32 PM »
According to wdfw officers ive talked with, true spikes aren't breeder bulls. They say the branched bulls are more likely to try to breed than the baby true spikes.  :dunno: makes sense to me. Either way if we conserve the bulls they will be killed by the natives no matter what because their ancestors killed them many moons ago up there. Lets manage the herd by allowing the natives to only harvest cows and our bull to cow ratio will be golden in a few years

Except "we" have no say in what the tribe does. It's a federal issue, and the feds won't touch it.
I hunt, therefore I am.... I fish, therefore I lie.

Offline GreggHunts2hard4u

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 145
  • Location: Bonney Lake
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2017, 03:11:37 PM »
Is the true spike is working perfectly the answer is no. But look at the bright side that unit went from 3-5 big bull tags a year to 21-23 tags a year so the system is working on getting the carry over they need.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well put! Wonder how many of those big bull tags get filled? I know an old guy hunting solo  that was still searching for a branched bull on 11/2 he had been up there since the tag had opened

Offline time2hunt

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 977
  • Location: Ellensburg
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2017, 03:14:31 PM »
To me some of the issue with the illegal kills is that the unit is a complete zoo. When elk are seen the the ATV , four wheel drives, horses and what means of travel begin the chase and a lot hunters are shooting before looking at there target. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Local 3482

Offline GreggHunts2hard4u

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 145
  • Location: Bonney Lake
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2017, 03:15:49 PM »
According to wdfw officers ive talked with, true spikes aren't breeder bulls. They say the branched bulls are more likely to try to breed than the baby true spikes.  :dunno: makes sense to me. Either way if we conserve the bulls they will be killed by the natives no matter what because their ancestors killed them many moons ago up there. Lets manage the herd by allowing the natives to only harvest cows and our bull to cow ratio will be golden in a few years

Except "we" have no say in what the tribe does. It's a federal issue, and the feds won't touch it.

Believe me i know. They know they cant ve touched either, a few years back we called in a group of them chasing a herd down the middle of a clearing off any designated road shooting out the back and killing multiple elk right in front of us. Sergeant got out his ticket book, they said you cant touch us youll have to talk to our tribal police. Sergeant said i can write you a ticket for driving off road and that was it.

Offline yakimanoob

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 467
  • Location: Naches
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2017, 03:47:14 PM »
For my early archery bull hunt I was working a heard of 100 cows and 13 5pt or better bulls.  On the last day of the hunt I was in a herd of 200 elk and I counted 29 6x6 bulls go over the ridge.
You quit yer braggin'.   :chuckle:

Offline JJJ

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 10
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2017, 06:58:23 PM »
I can see that there are two sides to this fence, and both sides have some VERY valid points.... my only concern is that many 1x2's that I have seen are just baaaarely a 2.... awefully hard to see in the moment, -- I'm not making excuses for the lack of judgement when these people pull the trigger in haste; I'm just stating that it IS happening. -I also agree that there will still be irresponsible people shooting 2 x 2's  if we raise it to 3 point or better or whatever points they may decide on. I would hope to believe that an ethical hunter who would see an older bull with 2x2 would realize that easier? ... most, not all,  2x2's have a taller rack and prominent points.-- of course those that would still harvest an animal like that in a spike only unit would still pull the trigger on just about any bull? .... very frustrating-- just putting out food for thought, folks... I see both sides---it's just tough to hear of so many young bulls with a 1" web point being left to lay after a guy takes a long shot or whatever... those bulls won't live to achieve the true spike rule intentions... just throwing some thoughts out there....

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 33862
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2017, 07:05:12 PM »
True spike is the dumbest thing ever. They need to eliminate the general seasons and go to permit only, and ANY bull should be legal for those who draw permits.

Offline winshooter88

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 675
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2017, 08:09:23 PM »
A couple of years ago I asked a WDFW biologist when the true spike designation would be removed and his answer was "not in your lifetime". I am 61 so take your calculations from there.

Offline ballpark

  • Salty
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Posts: 183
  • Location: Kitsap County
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2017, 07:52:30 AM »
On 10/29(Sunday) I had one brief chance at a "true spike" but could not verify both antlers before he hit the bottom into dark stuff.  I was almost sure but not 100%, never saw another spike - plenty of branched.  :tup:

Offline greenhead_killer

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2010
  • Posts: 643
  • Location: the burg
Re: 328 - 329 True Spike Question
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2017, 08:07:51 AM »
Itís a garbage rule. Iíve had spikes at 25 feet that looked to be 100% ts until they turned their head and a 2Ē kicker is sitting 4Ē from the top. Thatís at 25 feet and hard to tell. Not a chance in hell you can see that at 200 yards in some of the thicker stuff. I get close two a dozen tryís spikes on cams every year in there but refuse to hunt it archery anymore until they take otc cows off the board. Itís as bad as rifle is now.
IBEW 46

 

ElkNut Outdoor Productions

* Recent Topics

Sonís montana buck by tmike
[Today at 03:59:41 AM]


Big Blacktails on this thread? by scottfrick
[Today at 03:54:44 AM]


Filled my multi season tag by scottfrick
[Today at 03:45:44 AM]


2017 Deer, post them here (photos & stats) by 280win
[Today at 03:07:58 AM]


Walther P22 review???? by b23
[Today at 01:56:49 AM]


coming soon by wheels
[Today at 01:10:49 AM]


Anybody breeding meat rabbit? by HighlandLofts
[Yesterday at 11:59:06 PM]


Mica Peak Moose question by steeleywhopper
[Yesterday at 11:37:11 PM]


2017 Elk, post them here (photos & stats) by Pete112288
[Yesterday at 11:36:44 PM]


Late Swakane rifle tags by Magnum_Willys
[Yesterday at 11:17:37 PM]


GMU 448 Stillaguamish (Skykomish) Late Buck? by stickbuck
[Yesterday at 11:10:00 PM]


Elk area 4601 / beginning elk hunting advice by Dan-o
[Yesterday at 11:03:51 PM]


Kayaks, Who hunts with them? Let's see your set up. by lokidog
[Yesterday at 11:00:09 PM]


Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies by lokidog
[Yesterday at 10:55:56 PM]


My crockpot cooking by Widgeondeke
[Yesterday at 10:53:23 PM]


Bear Hunter 2017/2018 Trapping Season by bear hunter
[Yesterday at 10:31:19 PM]


Kori (Hancock) traps by bear hunter
[Yesterday at 10:30:27 PM]


Wifeís Montana buck by Hot Lunch
[Yesterday at 10:21:54 PM]


Spokane/cda area butcher shop for a deer? by outdooraddict
[Yesterday at 10:18:36 PM]


Rogue's Gallery of bucks in my backyard by JWEBB
[Yesterday at 10:16:19 PM]