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Author Topic: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills  (Read 681 times)

Offline Humptulips

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Offline Axle

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 06:39:08 PM »
Quote
His findings contradict those of agents from the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife. The agency attributed the deaths of six cattle to “other” causes but specifically ruled out wolves. As a result, Butler isn’t eligible for compensation from a special state fund set up for ranchers.
“The fact the two reports come to different conclusions is frustrating,” said Sheriff Brian Wolfe. “The sheriff’s office has staff that are educated in this area and continue to receive ongoing training.”

Funny how that works.
Let me guess - the folks in the sheriff's office are hunters but the folks in the wildlife department are not.
Everyone lives off the land. Some of us simply have more fun at it.
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Offline Bushcraft

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 06:59:15 PM »
Sniff, sniff...smells like rotten wolf kill to me.

Other causes? That interesting...I wonder how many other cases of both domestic and wild ungulates are mislabeled as dying from "other causes" and not "predators killed them" or "predators were trying to kill them and they died of exhaustion", or "predators were trying to kill them and they got tangled up in barbed wire fencing", etc.

I mean, if you were an unscrupulous wolf-hugging Department employee and wanted to gerrymander some statistics, then this seems like a perfectly valid way to hide the predator problem and forestall the inevitable solution.

Also...explain to me why in the hell are we paying Federal authorities to show up and NOT write a report?

I'm siding with the Malheur Sheriff's Dept.

 
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Offline Axle

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 07:03:05 PM »
Quote
Also...explain to me why in the hell are we paying Federal authorities to show up and NOT write a report?

Because they are simply in it for a paycheck and a fat retirement plan.
Everyone lives off the land. Some of us simply have more fun at it.
THERE'S AN ANIMAL NOW! SHOOT IT!!! Quote from the movie: Almost Heroes

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 09:19:10 PM »
Welcome to the fraud and corruption of the wolf introduction which seems to travel with the wolves from state to state.


Sounds like ODFG are being coached by WDF&Wolves, I was called to help secure a calf kill a few years ago on a near ranch. We found a cow that was very protective and a dead calf, we back trailed to where the calf was first attack and found a big pile of wolf scat. We both figured this for sure would be a confirmed wolf kill. But the famed fitkin showed up and after a few hours he said he had found a coyote track. So it was labeled as a coyote kill.

Sounds like those ranchers in Oregon need to take care of their predation problems without contacting state or federal agencies, just like many of the WA ranchers have learned, it's either that or continue to feed USFWS wolves.


Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 07:38:49 AM »
Quote
His findings contradict those of agents from the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife. The agency attributed the deaths of six cattle to “other” causes but specifically ruled out wolves. As a result, Butler isn’t eligible for compensation from a special state fund set up for ranchers.
“The fact the two reports come to different conclusions is frustrating,” said Sheriff Brian Wolfe. “The sheriff’s office has staff that are educated in this area and continue to receive ongoing training.”

Funny how that works.
Let me guess - the folks in the sheriff's office are hunters but the folks in the wildlife department are not.

The Sheriff's department are locals and give a darn about their community and residents. That's why sheriffs are elected and the highest LE authority in their jurisdiction.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 07:44:53 AM »
Quote
His findings contradict those of agents from the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife. The agency attributed the deaths of six cattle to “other” causes but specifically ruled out wolves. As a result, Butler isn’t eligible for compensation from a special state fund set up for ranchers.
“The fact the two reports come to different conclusions is frustrating,” said Sheriff Brian Wolfe. “The sheriff’s office has staff that are educated in this area and continue to receive ongoing training.”

Funny how that works.
Let me guess - the folks in the sheriff's office are hunters but the folks in the wildlife department are not.

The Sheriff's department are locals and give a darn about their community and residents. That's why sheriffs are elected and the highest LE authority in their jurisdiction.



 :tup:

Offline Special T

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 08:03:13 AM »
After what happened in that county you think the sherif is going  do anything other than side with a local?  Could be Dangerious country for Feds and state folks... not exactly any love or trust.

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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 08:18:46 AM »
After what happened in that county you think the sherif is going  do anything other than side with a local?  Could be Dangerious country for Feds and state folks... not exactly any love or trust.

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The sheriff can also un-deputize the state and federal LE operating in that county, effectively barring them from arresting anyone. My understanding is that they (the state and feds), could still investigate but would be required to work with the sheriff to act on warrants. I'm often impressed with the way county sheriffs protect and uphold their constituents' rights. When the last gun control in was passed in WA and OR for the background checks, several said they wouldn't enforce the law.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Online Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 08:45:42 AM »
It seems a DNA test could clear this up.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline bigtex

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 08:51:42 AM »
After what happened in that county you think the sherif is going  do anything other than side with a local?  Could be Dangerious country for Feds and state folks... not exactly any love or trust.

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The sheriff can also un-deputize the state and federal LE operating in that county, effectively barring them from arresting anyone. My understanding is that they (the state and feds), could still investigate but would be required to work with the sheriff to act on warrants. I'm often impressed with the way county sheriffs protect and uphold their constituents' rights. When the last gun control in was passed in WA and OR for the background checks, several said they wouldn't enforce the law.
Most feds aren't deputized. Typically the only ones who are are patrol feds (Forest Service, Park Service, Fed Protective Service, etc.). The only thing a county deputization does is allow the feds to make state arrests into state courts. If they don't have that then they can only make federal arrests into federal court.

In Oregon, federal officers are essentially deputized by the state. Any federal officer can fill out a form and can arrest anyone in Oregon committing any state misdemeanor or felony, regardless of what the Sheriff says, that's written into state code. In WA that Officer would need to be deputized.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 08:54:30 AM »
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know OR was different. OR sucks!
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline olyguy79

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 08:55:31 AM »
After what happened in that county you think the sherif is going  do anything other than side with a local?  Could be Dangerious country for Feds and state folks... not exactly any love or trust.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
The sheriff can also un-deputize the state and federal LE operating in that county, effectively barring them from arresting anyone. My understanding is that they (the state and feds), could still investigate but would be required to work with the sheriff to act on warrants. I'm often impressed with the way county sheriffs protect and uphold their constituents' rights. When the last gun control in was passed in WA and OR for the background checks, several said they wouldn't enforce the law.
Most feds aren't deputized. Typically the only ones who are are patrol feds (Forest Service, Park Service, Fed Protective Service, etc.). The only thing a county deputization does is allow the feds to make state arrests into state courts. If they don't have that then they can only make federal arrests into federal court.

In Oregon, federal officers are essentially deputized by the state. Any federal officer can fill out a form and can arrest anyone in Oregon committing any state misdemeanor or felony, regardless of what the Sheriff says, that's written into state code. In WA that Officer would need to be deputized.
:yeah:
Your three letter federal agencies (FBI, DEA, ATF) rarely seek county deputization because there's really no point, they're mainly working federal cases. The federal patrol agencies deal with more everyday police work (DUI, minor drug possession, wildlife, etc) and those cases are better handled in state courts, in WA the officer needs to be deputized by the Sheriff/City/State agency to process the case in state court. In Oregon the authority is granted via state law. Realistically, you see city/county officers seeking deputization from the FBI/DEA/ATF for task force work, and you see federal patrol officer seek county deputization for normal patrol work.

Offline olyguy79

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 08:58:45 AM »
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know OR was different. OR sucks!
You'd actually be surprised the level of cooperation between feds and county sheriffs. There's a few "anti-federal sheriffs" in WA who deputize officers from federal agencies. You have to remember these people are politicians, they know what to say in order to get them elected. Plus, a county deputized USFS LEO for example now has more ability to help out deputies then he could if he wasn't deputized.

Offline bigtex

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2017, 09:05:39 AM »
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know OR was different. OR sucks!
Realistically it's more like WA is different than most states. Many states have some type of emergency type situation written into their laws. So if an FBI agent is driving by and someone is getting their head beaten in by a bat they can go over and arrest the suspect and charge them into state court. They couldn't go out pulling over people for expired registration. Some say well what about citizens arrest, most (if not all) agencies prohibit their personnel from exercising citizens arrest because of liability issues.

However, in WA both situations (head beaten in by bat and vehicle stop for expired registration) would require some type of deputization from the PD/Sheriff.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2017, 09:07:32 AM »
I'm quite familiar with the cooperation between the different LEOs. I just wasn't aware that OR state mandated the cooperation that they do.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline bigtex

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2017, 09:23:43 AM »
I'm quite familiar with the cooperation between the different LEOs. I just wasn't aware that OR state mandated the cooperation that they do.
They aren't mandated to do so. A sheriff can say he isn't going to work with a federal agency. But the federal LEOs can still exercise state law enforcement authority. In WA the sheriff could revoke the state authority since it is granted by the sheriff. In OR the authority is granted via state statute.

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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2017, 09:25:26 AM »
Right. I got the distinction.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2017, 09:56:42 AM »
Lack of premortem hemorrhaging on cattle pretty definitively rules out wolf attack.  Wolves kill large prey by crushing muscle with strong jaws and relatively dull teeth; actual wolf kills without feeding are often missed due to the absence of punctures in the hide, but when skinned the extensive muscle trauma is very apparent.  (The included photo is 19 elk killed on a Wyoming feed ground.  Note that although all 19 were killed by wolves and dragged to the location on snow with snowmobiles, there is almost no bleeding.)

No other wild large carnivore in the PNW kills this way, and as long as the carcass is fresh a wolf/not wolf determination can be made even without determining the "other" causes. 

If there are good quality photographs of the skinned carcasses - which there certainly should be - experienced depredation investigators would be able to determine whether or not it is a wolf kill, so this is not necessarily an ODFW/Sheriff impasse.  My guess is that government employees at either state or county level, in a state that has had very little experience with wolf depredation, probably aren't very experienced and are both learning on the job.  Many biologists have relatively little experience with conducting necropsies and investigating a suspected wolf kill is likely a first time experience - they followed the instructions, but how confident are they in the conclusions?   I do find the sheriff's adamant certitude more political than professional.
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Online PA BEN

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2017, 12:03:19 PM »
Stevens Country Sheriff accused WDFW of the same thing when their trained Deputies confirmed wolf kills. This was to their face at a wolf meeting in Colville a few years back.

Offline HighlandLofts

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Re: Sherriff and ODFW disagree on wolf kills
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2017, 09:13:23 PM »
It's bad enough the deer, elk & other wild life are killed by cougars, coyotes, bears and other stuff, now they are being depleted by wolves.

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