collapse
Quality Hunts for over 30 Years

Author Topic: Major wdfw overhaul  (Read 13562 times)

Offline Mallardmasher

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2016
  • Posts: 258
  • Location: Port Orchard, Washington
  • IBEW LU 46
  • Groups: CCA WWA
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2017, 06:32:58 AM »
Bad winters, and too many hunters compared to other western states. What should they do, Make everything spike only with a draw for a quality tag in eastern Washington. Just as weather and Mother Nature play a huge roll with our fisheries, So does it with the deer and elk herds.
Maybe putting a bounty back on yotes would be a big step, and help to improve fawn recruitment into the herd. But it all cost money.
Really the problem is not with that dept persey, but with the jello eating public that wants to run our wildlife, like reintroducing an alpha Preditor, removing the major ability to control two other alpha predictors, with bait and hounds. Those three alpha preditors we can control, Mother Nature not so.
So focus your attention on Hunting of Wolves and reintroducing bait and hounds for Bear and Cougars, and controlling an out of control coyote population........ And you will see our herds increase as fast as you have seen them decrease......
So this is where initiatives can be focused, but it will take a 100% support of all sportsman, even if baiting and Cougars are not there thing. To see the big picture, Preditor control means stronger herds.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 06:41:44 AM by Mallardmasher »
USN 1985-94, IBEW Local 46 1994-Present
Matt

Offline B4noon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 62
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2017, 07:07:10 AM »
There are a lot of factors involved with the depletion of not only the mule deer herd in our state but other herds and species as well.  There are many factors that are out of our control I.e. Droughts, disease, and hard winters that all impact these herds.  Our option to deal with these factors is to trust that the people we pay to manage our herds for us make the proper adjustments and use sound science and data to increase or decrease pressure on herds when they are effected by such factors in hopes to manage the species to its greatest potential as well as allow for recreational use.  The current management we have entrusted with our resource is not cutting it in regards to predator control and population management making knee jerk decisions on permit numbers based on minimal data collection and weather forecasts is not looking at long term herd health.  We have become an agency that manages for listed species rather then game species because federal dollars that come with listed specie management is worth more and is more consistent then license dollars shut down hunting they still have jobs and money coming in just a different focus on their desk.  Shutting down units although would be a great idea in some areas will only cause them to chase more federal dollars as well as their focus will shift further from recreational management.  We also need to get all players involved and find a way to work with the tribes on the management of herds it does no good to put money time and effort into trying to benefit a species if not all user groups are on board. What would be the benefit of creating conservative opportunities on herds if some of the players continue to hunt it and take out numerous animals during the process then it's all for nothing.  On the other side of the fence enforcement needs to start emphasizing on game violations and poaching and let other agencies handle domestics, drunks, and pressure washing invasive species off of boats.

Offline pianoman9701

  • Mushroom Man
  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 27625
  • Location: Vancouver USA
  • NRA Life, MH, WFW, CCRKBA, NAGR, RMEF, WSB
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2017, 07:12:27 AM »
Change is going to have to come from the outside. They don't care what's been said at public meetings and hearings. Look at the wolf plan. Look at predator management as a whole. Look at the administration of WDFW Police. Look at the people put on the Commission and the different advisory groups. The Hoof disease working group had a chemical company professional witness and a Weyerhaeuser exec. The WAG has animal rights groups, as does the commission.

It's going to take our legislature to affect change through laws, and as of the first Tuesday of this month, that's not likely to happen very soon.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Online bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 29841
  • Location: Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: WFW, WSTA, WSB, WPHA, FWM, NRA, SCI, RMEF, NAHC, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2017, 07:30:29 AM »
Unfortunately it comes to the general election and votes. As long as Washington has a liberal Dem for governor, you can expect things to remain the same or get worse for hunters. :twocents:
:yeah: Plus the senate and now the house, so you can expect things to worsen!

There are a lot of factors involved with the depletion of not only the mule deer herd in our state but other herds and species as well.  There are many factors that are out of our control I.e. Droughts, disease, and hard winters that all impact these herds.  Our option to deal with these factors is to trust that the people we pay to manage our herds for us make the proper adjustments and use sound science and data to increase or decrease pressure on herds when they are effected by such factors in hopes to manage the species to its greatest potential as well as allow for recreational use.  The current management we have entrusted with our resource is not cutting it in regards to predator control and population management making knee jerk decisions on permit numbers based on minimal data collection and weather forecasts is not looking at long term herd health.  We have become an agency that manages for listed species rather then game species because federal dollars that come with listed specie management is worth more and is more consistent then license dollars shut down hunting they still have jobs and money coming in just a different focus on their desk.  Shutting down units although would be a great idea in some areas will only cause them to chase more federal dollars as well as their focus will shift further from recreational management.  We also need to get all players involved and find a way to work with the tribes on the management of herds it does no good to put money time and effort into trying to benefit a species if not all user groups are on board. What would be the benefit of creating conservative opportunities on herds if some of the players continue to hunt it and take out numerous animals during the process then it's all for nothing.  On the other side of the fence enforcement needs to start emphasizing on game violations and poaching and let other agencies handle domestics, drunks, and pressure washing invasive species off of boats.

 :yeah: We just come out of a hard winter, nature is the #1 determining factor of wildlife numbers. After we had a hard winter a good responsive agency would make the right choices to help recover herds rather than deplete them further. I can agree with all the other factors you mention, herds would recover so much quicker if we could correct some of these issues.

I expect any change we see will be in the wrong direction given the political climate in WA!  :twocents:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://trophymaps.com "Do-It-Yourself" Hunting Maps" 
http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided, Semi-Guided, Unguided, and Drop Camp Hunts in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Washington. Hunts with tags available (no draw) spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf!

Offline Skyvalhunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 11761
  • Location: The valley
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2017, 07:35:25 AM »
So what does that have to say for us heading into the prediction of another hard winter.

Online bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 29841
  • Location: Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: WFW, WSTA, WSB, WPHA, FWM, NRA, SCI, RMEF, NAHC, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2017, 07:39:51 AM »
Another hard winter means more winter loss and a couple years longer to recover.

It's at times of low herd population that a predator pit can happen, seems like we have enough predators for that to maybe happen, time will tell.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://trophymaps.com "Do-It-Yourself" Hunting Maps" 
http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided, Semi-Guided, Unguided, and Drop Camp Hunts in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Washington. Hunts with tags available (no draw) spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf!

Offline runamuk

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 17763
  • Location: Somewhere in the Blues.
  • "I'm bored play with me"
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2017, 07:40:21 AM »
How many here do the hunting season surveys? How many report legitimate information? How many talk to the bios and land managers?

If you aren't doing that start there.

Every time I hear how people lie on there locations all I can think is they wonder why management is so messed up.  You are part of the problem if you play that way.
Sent from a fairy ring

benchleg

Offline bobcat

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 35068
  • Location: Rochester
    • robert68
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2017, 07:41:34 AM »
Quote
We also need to get all players involved and find a way to work with the tribes on the management of herds it does no good to put money time and effort into trying to benefit a species if not all user groups are on board. What would be the benefit of creating conservative opportunities on herds if some of the players continue to hunt it and take out numerous animals during the process then it's all for nothing.

This!  ^^^


In my mind this is the biggest issue in the state for deer and elk management. We could limit our harvest in some way, even more so than we already do, but it would only allow the tribes to take more animals. It's a really tough issue to even bring up because all that happens is some people just want to begin playing the race card. So, instead the problem is ignored by the WDFW and I doubt anything will ever be done to address it. This is a bigger issue than wolves will ever be.

Online bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 29841
  • Location: Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: WFW, WSTA, WSB, WPHA, FWM, NRA, SCI, RMEF, NAHC, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2017, 07:46:59 AM »
Before the winter kill herds were building, a couple years ago deer herds were looking pretty good, I honestly think that preventing winter kill is the single biggest factor for maintaining abundant herds without severe fluctuation. The deer need something to eat in the winter, subdivisions have eaten up too much winter range.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://trophymaps.com "Do-It-Yourself" Hunting Maps" 
http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided, Semi-Guided, Unguided, and Drop Camp Hunts in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Washington. Hunts with tags available (no draw) spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf!

Online wolfbait

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 5599
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2017, 08:08:32 AM »
Before the winter kill herds were building, a couple years ago deer herds were looking pretty good, I honestly think that preventing winter kill is the single biggest factor for maintaining abundant herds without severe fluctuation. The deer need something to eat in the winter, subdivisions have eaten up too much winter range.

Personally I haven't seen the herds in the Methow coming back for several years now, actually each year we see less and this year looks terrible. According to WDFW biologist, predation is included in the winter kill. Here in the Methow etc. there seems to be plenty of deer feed for the amount of deer we have.

I think predation will end the deer migration, and the deer that will be left will be the ones that get protection from towns and rural homes.

Offline no.cen.wa

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Posts: 81
  • Location: Twisp
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2017, 08:15:53 AM »
This is the WDFW mandate by the Washington Legislature

The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) is dedicated to preserving, protecting and perpetuating the stateís fish and wildlife resources. The department operates under a dual mandate from the Washington Legislature to:

Protect and enhance fish and wildlife and their habitats.
**************************************************************
Provide sustainable, fish- and wildlife-related recreational and commercial opportunities.
***************************************************************
just thought I'd outline that one

Department policy is guided by the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission composed of nine citizen members appointed by the Governor. Department operations are led by a Director and an Executive Management Team. The Director is appointed by the Fish and Wildlife Commission.

It's an uphill battle to change things and will take time, but well worth it. So many liberals on the west side (they carry the votes)we have our work cut out for us. Maybe we could film a pack of wolves taking down a calf, piece by piece with it's mother standing there watching.(this happened, rancher's heart sank, they could do nothing.
John G

Offline no.cen.wa

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Posts: 81
  • Location: Twisp
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2017, 08:23:59 AM »
Might as well know who is on the Group


Wolf Advisory Group (WAG) Members
Name Affiliation City

Bob Aegeter Sierra Club Bellingham
Shawn Cantrell Defenders of Wildlife Seattle
Tim Coleman Kettle Range Conservation Group Republic
Don Dashiell Stevens County Commissioner Colville
Tom Davis Washington Farm Bureau Olympia
Dave Duncan Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation Ellensburg
Tom Erskine Hiker and photographer Camas
Jack Field Washington State Cattlemenís Association Ellensburg
Diane Gallegos Wolf Haven International Tenino
Molly Linville Independent cattle rancher Palisades
Nick Martinez Washington State Sheep Producers Moxee
Dan McKinley Mule Deer Foundation Spangle
Dan Paul Humane Society of the United States Seattle
Mark Pidgeon Hunters Heritage Council Bellevue
Lisa Stone Hunter Shelton
Paula Swedeen Conservation Northwest Olympia
Vacancy - -
Vacancy - -
*All WAG members were appointed to a membership term that runs through December 31,

Offline B4noon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 62
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2017, 08:37:25 AM »
WDFW has to get back to the bread and butter of the agency and regain focus on FISH and GAME.  When they spend more time and effort chasing federal dollars due to the lack of Wildlife state dollars their emphasis is placed where the money is.  For years the legislature has given WDFW the directive to cut back on managment without cutting basic functions and recreational opportunity.  In trying to achieve this the legislature has cut back funding in hopes of pinching the coffers to a point managment postitions would be reduced.  WDFW response chase more federal contracts which come from threatened, endangered, and invasive species.  With every federal dollar they receive 32%is slated towards Administration and management fees thus retaining their cubicle in the big house.  There is merit in the management of these species and they need to have a place in a healthy ecosystem, however do we need government waste in multiple agencies conducting the same efforts on the same species.  Not only does WDFW manage oversee Pygmy rabbits,  the federal government have their own team as well as BLM and DNR.  We have multiple agencies focusing on the same effort instead of spreading our resources and creating focal points on small pictures rather then big, every agency wants the funding.  The legislature has to be convinced that WDFW has become to diverse and has to many pies to put their finger in.  Reign in the agency and bring it back to what it was created for to manage fish and game.  Let the other players in government worry about 3 toed red bellied salamanders have a collaborative relationship with those other agencies so that the habitat is suitable for all species,  but bring the focus and the mainstay of the department back to managing the game species.  Probably would result in WDFW attending alot less law hearings as well if their fingers aren't in the pie.  I think rather then try to be mediocre at alot of things they should try and be great at a few.  Although the offset of that is management in oly may have numbers reduced to the point of becoming a listed or endangered species themselves.  I wonder how bats with white-nose syndrome would fare in a uninhabited cubicle environment.

Offline JDHasty

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 6777
  • Location: Tacoma
  • Groups: NRA Benefactor Member, GOA Life Member, Father of 3 NRA Life Members
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2017, 08:48:38 AM »
Maybe this is when we as hunters need to pack the meetings. Make them standing room only. Change should happen when hundreds show up to each meeting.

How about asking them to schedule meetinga for evenings so those working can attend.

I advocated for that since back between 1989 & 1992 when I was running SPORTCO's retail gun counter.  It is an outrage that meetings are held when the people paying the bills for this State are at work.   

Offline Southpole

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 2487
  • Location: Arlington/Oso
  • Groups: NRA
Re: Major wdfw overhaul
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2017, 08:57:27 AM »
How do we, as hunters, go about making sure an employed biologist is ďunbiasedĒ and doesnít have an agenda. Do we all pitch in and send boneaddict to collage to get his biology degree so his opinion will be taken seriolouly? Like said before, as long as this state is ran by the Dsí, itís going to be an uphill battle. I agree with SpecialT, itís going to take all of us to ban together, in an organized sportsman club of your choosing, to get a bigger voice to represent our heritage. Too many of us, including myself, want to complain but wonít try to be part of the solution. Iíve gotten to the point where Iím totally turned off from hunting deer the past 5 years and have been solely focused on predator hunting, at least Iíll have a chance to shoot at something :rolleyes:
$5 is a lot of money if you ain't got it

 

* Recent Topics

Well I donít need to worry about a base for now by Evil_EdwardO
[Today at 07:30:04 AM]


Cougar population in WA state over time? by wolfbait
[Today at 07:28:46 AM]


Hunters Beware: Landlocking Public Access by wolfbait
[Today at 07:22:30 AM]


youth and senior hunts for pheasants coming up by Special T
[Today at 07:07:31 AM]


Washington food plot growers by Special T
[Today at 07:05:56 AM]


2018, ELK, Post them here! by mburrows
[Today at 06:59:16 AM]


2018 Deer, post them here by wjbiddi05
[Today at 06:52:04 AM]


Deep fried trout by 10mmg
[Today at 06:44:31 AM]


WTT Bullets (Nosler, Barnes) by Emptyhanded
[Today at 06:27:46 AM]


Deer on JBLM? by biggfish
[Today at 06:26:56 AM]


Wts wtt DPMS Panther AR15 $475 by Woodchuck
[Today at 06:20:19 AM]


First elk in the books by ruttnbuck
[Today at 06:20:15 AM]


Sheep Tag, Yahoo by Falcon
[Today at 06:12:11 AM]


Last meal by n_mathews13
[Today at 05:31:59 AM]


Keeping your feet dry? by Tim in Wa.
[Today at 05:20:48 AM]


To kill or not to kill by Huntingtony
[Today at 01:19:38 AM]


What are the main differences hunting BT vs WT? by Huntingtony
[Today at 01:17:57 AM]


Wall Tents Tips and Tricks by follow maggie
[Yesterday at 11:39:59 PM]


Best out of state over the counter deer tag by Bigshooter
[Yesterday at 11:22:59 PM]


Best Speed Loader by JakeLand
[Yesterday at 11:20:34 PM]