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Author Topic: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says  (Read 1703 times)

Offline HighCountryHunter88

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2017, 03:42:28 PM »
can a private land owner hold the state liable for damages done to private property caused by state owned (the people) wildlife
-Matt

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2017, 03:42:39 PM »
I hope this is found to be in violation of state law.
Maybe then there will be a chance of getting the law repealed, or at least opportunities increased for bear hunting without hounds and/or bait.

I disagree, hunters should never support ending one type of management for personal gain. That is part of how we lost bear baiting and hounding in the first place, some hunters supported the ban!  :twocents:

Well, sorry but I'm no longer sympathetic to the big timber companies who charge hunters for access and then poison our wildlife and destroy the habitat with their herbicides.

 :yeah:

Now thier gonna have to spend some cash on lawyers. :chuckle:

Probably just up thier trespass fees, but hey I donít give them money for that.  :twocents:
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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2017, 03:52:19 PM »
first i far from against  hound hunting  / baiting i hope we get it back some day  but i see this as more as pest control protecting  there property  maybe if they had more spring bear tags  wouldnt need to pay for it

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2017, 04:00:10 PM »
I will not be affected either way on this issue, I hunt my dogs in Idaho, but this is one of the few legal ways that someone who owns hounds and lives in Washington can still use their hounds in Washington. Take this away and you are taking away about all that's left for those hunters to use their dogs.  :dunno:
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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2017, 04:00:48 PM »
I actually hope HSUS sticks it to the wdfw. Then the Wdfw has to play the card that the law itself unjust. Wa state constitution says a law cannot have two subject matters.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2017, 04:08:17 PM »
I actually hope HSUS sticks it to the wdfw. Then the Wdfw has to play the card that the law itself unjust. Wa state constitution says a law cannot have two subject matters.

I agree that the law should have never been upheld. But who I see this hurting the most are the hound hunters who still had a way to hunt their dogs. That is why HSUS wants to stop this.
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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2017, 04:10:58 PM »
The state should push for more public hunting and access on that land as a first means of control before they go to any of the methods mentioned.  There should be a way to strike a deal, maybe say the timber company can allow 50 free access special permit draw hunts and then the department will trap/shoot/bomb/whatever an equal amount of bears?  I would look for a win/win/stick-it-to-HSUS option here.

Offline Special T

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2017, 04:15:08 PM »
The state should push for more public hunting and access on that land as a first means of control before they go to any of the methods mentioned.  There should be a way to strike a deal, maybe say the timber company can allow 50 free access special permit draw hunts and then the department will trap/shoot/bomb/whatever an equal amount of bears?  I would look for a win/win/stick-it-to-HSUS option here.
This is what the timber companies should push for...

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Offline KFhunter

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2017, 04:17:14 PM »
feel free 2 hunt -  or they can  :pee:
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 04:39:17 PM by KFhunter »
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Offline hhack

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2017, 04:38:38 PM »
I actually hope HSUS sticks it to the wdfw. Then the Wdfw has to play the card that the law itself unjust. Wa state constitution says a law cannot have two subject matters.

I agree that the law should have never been upheld. But who I see this hurting the most are the hound hunters who still had a way to hunt their dogs. That is why HSUS wants to stop this.

I don't see why hound hunters can't just chase bears without killing them. They can have a buddy tag along and wack the bear. Wdfw would have a fun time proving that if people were clever.

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2017, 05:01:10 PM »
The state should push for more public hunting and access on that land as a first means of control before they go to any of the methods mentioned.  There should be a way to strike a deal, maybe say the timber company can allow 50 free access special permit draw hunts and then the department will trap/shoot/bomb/whatever an equal amount of bears?  I would look for a win/win/stick-it-to-HSUS option here.
Legally the Department cannot force anyone to open their land to public hunting.
That should be a requirement before Special Permits are written except in unusual circumstances. See my post on the first page.
Now the department has nothing to give to strike a deal. Give them power to deny permits so they have some bargaining power.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2017, 05:07:49 PM »
It would only affect state houndsmen.  Tribal houndsmen would have another monopoly.

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2017, 06:01:53 PM »
The Humane Society is one of the biggest frauds in the USA. They kill more animals than what they save.
I could care less about what anybody says..............

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2017, 06:32:55 PM »
The state should push for more public hunting and access on that land as a first means of control before they go to any of the methods mentioned.  There should be a way to strike a deal, maybe say the timber company can allow 50 free access special permit draw hunts and then the department will trap/shoot/bomb/whatever an equal amount of bears?  I would look for a win/win/stick-it-to-HSUS option here.
Legally the Department cannot force anyone to open their land to public hunting.
That should be a requirement before Special Permits are written except in unusual circumstances. See my post on the first page.
Now the department has nothing to give to strike a deal. Give them power to deny permits so they have some bargaining power.

Not force, make a deal.  I'm not sure if they are legally required to help with bear damage the same way they do with wolf damage, so they may have some bargaining chips.  If nothing else, they could stop today until the lawsuits are over and settled.

Offline fireweed

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2017, 06:51:05 PM »
I don't feel sorry for the timber companies one whiff.  First off, they CHARGE for hunters to come and kill their problem bears, even for damage tags like west side spring bear.  Its ridiculous--complaining to the state about bear damage, then charging hunters access fees to kill their bears.

Where were they back 20 years ago when this was passed?  Did you see them out working with sportsmen to stop the initiative?  Nope--they got their open ended carve out courtesy of their lobbyists at WFPA, so they didn't care one bit that it passed.  And you can bet the HSUS and other anti-hunting sponsors were happy to put in that carve out to keep big timber money from fighting their initiative. 

This current bear situation is exactly why big timber needs the support of sportsmen, and visa versa.  But timber companies have turned their back on that win-win relationship, and now their gonna pay (too). 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 06:57:58 PM by fireweed »

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2017, 07:45:04 PM »
I don't feel sorry for the timber companies one whiff.  First off, they CHARGE for hunters to come and kill their problem bears, even for damage tags like west side spring bear.  Its ridiculous--complaining to the state about bear damage, then charging hunters access fees to kill their bears.

Where were they back 20 years ago when this was passed?  Did you see them out working with sportsmen to stop the initiative?  Nope--they got their open ended carve out courtesy of their lobbyists at WFPA, so they didn't care one bit that it passed.  And you can bet the HSUS and other anti-hunting sponsors were happy to put in that carve out to keep big timber money from fighting their initiative. 

This current bear situation is exactly why big timber needs the support of sportsmen, and visa versa.  But timber companies have turned their back on that win-win relationship, and now their gonna pay (too).

Here here! :tup:
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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2017, 05:34:47 AM »
can a private land owner hold the state liable for damages done to private property caused by state owned (the people) wildlife

Yes. The state does crop damage mitigation all the time.

Offline HighCountryHunter88

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2017, 07:25:58 AM »
can a private land owner hold the state liable for damages done to private property caused by state owned (the people) wildlife

Yes. The state does crop damage mitigation all the time.

so then the state really doesnt have anything to bargain with  :dunno: if they take away the hounds and snaring then the timber companies can just sue them for the damages... is what im guessing
-Matt

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2017, 07:31:36 AM »
I don't feel sorry for the timber companies one whiff.  First off, they CHARGE for hunters to come and kill their problem bears, even for damage tags like west side spring bear.  Its ridiculous--complaining to the state about bear damage, then charging hunters access fees to kill their bears.

Where were they back 20 years ago when this was passed?  Did you see them out working with sportsmen to stop the initiative?  Nope--they got their open ended carve out courtesy of their lobbyists at WFPA, so they didn't care one bit that it passed.  And you can bet the HSUS and other anti-hunting sponsors were happy to put in that carve out to keep big timber money from fighting their initiative. 

This current bear situation is exactly why big timber needs the support of sportsmen, and visa versa.  But timber companies have turned their back on that win-win relationship, and now their gonna pay (too).

Here here! :tup:
:yeah: x2 Although, it'll probably be the taxpayers who pay for wildlife damages.
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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2017, 08:53:40 AM »
I actually hope HSUS sticks it to the wdfw. Then the Wdfw has to play the card that the law itself unjust. Wa state constitution says a law cannot have two subject matters.

I agree that the law should have never been upheld. But who I see this hurting the most are the hound hunters who still had a way to hunt their dogs. That is why HSUS wants to stop this.
Bearpaw is spot on.  It will be a sad day in Washington when there are no houndsmen to call after someone is mauled by a cougar.  Karelian bear dogs can't do everything.
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2017, 08:49:02 PM »
I actually hope HSUS sticks it to the wdfw. Then the Wdfw has to play the card that the law itself unjust. Wa state constitution says a law cannot have two subject matters.

I agree that the law should have never been upheld. But who I see this hurting the most are the hound hunters who still had a way to hunt their dogs. That is why HSUS wants to stop this.
Bearpaw is spot on.  It will be a sad day in Washington when there are no houndsmen to call after someone is mauled by a cougar.  Karelian bear dogs can't do everything.

They donít do crap now anyways.  :twocents:

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Offline KFhunter

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2017, 08:55:54 PM »
I actually hope HSUS sticks it to the wdfw. Then the Wdfw has to play the card that the law itself unjust. Wa state constitution says a law cannot have two subject matters.

I agree that the law should have never been upheld. But who I see this hurting the most are the hound hunters who still had a way to hunt their dogs. That is why HSUS wants to stop this.
Bearpaw is spot on.  It will be a sad day in Washington when there are no houndsmen to call after someone is mauled by a cougar.  Karelian bear dogs can't do everything.

They donít do crap now anyways.  :twocents:

 :yeah:

I can think of a bigger waste of money  ($800k wolf advocate errr mediator on the WAG) but not many
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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2017, 10:05:04 PM »
@BearPaw, I hope that you have a bit of understanding towards what @BobCat has stated.  I think he speaks for many, out of great frustration.

I didn't live here when the initiatives were passed, so I can't comment on the history.  But I, too, have felt a lot of frustration with the State regarding Spring bear hunts.  For the average hunter (who cannot bait or use dogs), Spring bear hunting is a really tough proposition.  Have you ever looked at the hunter success rates for a unit that is primarily private timber land (e.g. Copalis)?  The odds are terrible!  Thick vegetation, no dogs, no bait, and yet this is a draw only hunt, AND you pay to access the property.  Yet, on the other hand, the private timber companies have been able (with WDFW's blessing all along) to use both bait and hounds to remove bears.

But the worse part about it is the waste: Bears taken by private timber companies cannot be salvaged (no meat, no fur, no skull may be taken).  So they just waste the bear!  This is insanity.

Washington state has one of the highest black bear populations in the lower 48, and bears are a serious cause of property damage.  To remove bears during the Spring, the best solution is a combination of hounds and bait.  WDFW already acknowledges this, and the state has been sanctioning this for 20+ years.  There is a loophole in the initiative to allow the department to do this.

The solution is simple: Acknowledge the benefit of hound + bait hunting, regulate it tightly, but let licensed hunters in on the game.

HSUS has made some good points, and--frankly--I am happy they forced the issue.  The end result is by no means tilted in our favor, in fact it could have dire consequences for us all.  Too bad we don't have a split legislature anymore, we might have had some influence over the governor.  I am not hopeful.
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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2017, 10:09:41 PM »
The state should push for more public hunting and access on that land as a first means of control before they go to any of the methods mentioned.  There should be a way to strike a deal, maybe say the timber company can allow 50 free access special permit draw hunts and then the department will trap/shoot/bomb/whatever an equal amount of bears?  I would look for a win/win/stick-it-to-HSUS option here.
Legally the Department cannot force anyone to open their land to public hunting.
That should be a requirement before Special Permits are written except in unusual circumstances. See my post on the first page.
Now the department has nothing to give to strike a deal. Give them power to deny permits so they have some bargaining power.

Not force, make a deal.  I'm not sure if they are legally required to help with bear damage the same way they do with wolf damage, so they may have some bargaining chips.  If nothing else, they could stop today until the lawsuits are over and settled.

How pray tell is WDFW going to deal? Right now if you apply for a Special Trapping permit and you fill out the paperwork correctly the Department has no recourse but to grant it.
If the timber companies cannot get their bears killed for free by hound guys they will just snare them. A simple change would give the Department a little bargaining power to open closed lands to hunting and trapping.
To another point the Department does not have to pay crop damages for commercial timber.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Timber farm bear hunts 'illegal,' Humane Society says
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2017, 10:12:41 PM »
They could snare them?  Over bait?


« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 10:22:09 PM by KFhunter »
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