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Author Topic: Need some stability  (Read 1825 times)

Offline Eric M

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2018, 06:46:19 PM »
Eric M, you may already know this but the weight of the bullet doesn't necessarily dictate the twist, as much as its design/profile does.  A flat base 60gr bullet can get away with using a slower twist while a same weight VLD type bullet will require a faster twist to stabilize it.  A good example is Hornady's 53gr Vmax.  It has a very sleek profile with a relatively short bearing surface and nearly always requires at least a 1-12tw barrel but the nearly the same weight 52gr Amax, with its less sleek profile, lower BC, and longer bearing surface typically shoots extremely well from a 1-14tw 22-250.  Generally, the higher the BC the faster the barrel twist needs to be.
Thanks. I kind of knew that but it's helpful. I might get this figured out before I need to do a barrel change haha

Offline AWS

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2018, 10:42:27 PM »
It is the relationship between the twist of the rifling and the length of the bullet regardless of weight or nose shape that determines stability.  It's known as the Greenhill formula.

"In 1879, Greenhill developed a rule of thumb for calculating the optimal twist rate for lead-core bullets. This shortcut uses the bullet's length, needing no allowances for weight or nose shape.[6] Greenhill applied this theory to account for the steadiness of flight conferred upon an elongated projectile by rifling. The eponymous Greenhill Formula, still used today"

Retained velocity over distance is do to bullet shape BC, not stability.
After the first shot the rest are just noise.

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Offline Eric M

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2018, 11:19:35 PM »
It is the relationship between the twist of the rifling and the length of the bullet regardless of weight or nose shape that determines stability.  It's known as the Greenhill formula.

"In 1879, Greenhill developed a rule of thumb for calculating the optimal twist rate for lead-core bullets. This shortcut uses the bullet's length, needing no allowances for weight or nose shape.[6] Greenhill applied this theory to account for the steadiness of flight conferred upon an elongated projectile by rifling. The eponymous Greenhill Formula, still used today"

Retained velocity over distance is do to bullet shape BC, not stability.
Thanks. In relation to reloading I feel like the more I learn the less I know.

Offline TheSkyBuster

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2018, 07:11:51 AM »
mine stabiliezed 60 grain Hornady HPs with a 12 inch twist.
Just curious what was the maximum distance you shot? @theskybuster mentioned 200 yards and I have heard that from one other person that they might be fine out to 200.


I only tried that bullet during load development at 100 yards.  My notes from 2011 list the group sizes as between .7 to 1.3” (outside to outside of the hole).   

From Sierra’s website:

.22 Caliber (.224) High Velocity 60 gr. HP (100 bullets)   
.22 CALIBER (.224) HIGH VELOCITY 60 GR. HP
For rifles, this is a high-velocity bullet designed to give precision accuracy with the explosive expansion of Sierra's Varminter-style construction. This bullet is at its best when fired from the larger-capacity cartridges, such as the 22-250 or 220 Swift in rifles with barrels having 1x14" twist rates, stabilizing easily for excellent long-range accuracy and effective expansion. Normally, 1x12" or faster twist rates work best for medium-capacity cases, such as the 223 Remington. These bullets are excellent for long-range varmint hunting.
 
For handguns, although this bullet is of Hollow Point construction, we cannot recommend it for hunting purposes. This bullet has been very successful on half-size NRA Silhouette targets.

The #1375 was introduced in 1984
.

Offline Eric M

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2018, 10:17:28 AM »
mine stabiliezed 60 grain Hornady HPs with a 12 inch twist.
Just curious what was the maximum distance you shot? @theskybuster mentioned 200 yards and I have heard that from one other person that they might be fine out to 200.


I only tried that bullet during load development at 100 yards.  My notes from 2011 list the group sizes as between .7 to 1.3” (outside to outside of the hole).   

From Sierra’s website:

.22 Caliber (.224) High Velocity 60 gr. HP (100 bullets)   
.22 CALIBER (.224) HIGH VELOCITY 60 GR. HP
For rifles, this is a high-velocity bullet designed to give precision accuracy with the explosive expansion of Sierra's Varminter-style construction. This bullet is at its best when fired from the larger-capacity cartridges, such as the 22-250 or 220 Swift in rifles with barrels having 1x14" twist rates, stabilizing easily for excellent long-range accuracy and effective expansion. Normally, 1x12" or faster twist rates work best for medium-capacity cases, such as the 223 Remington. These bullets are excellent for long-range varmint hunting.
 
For handguns, although this bullet is of Hollow Point construction, we cannot recommend it for hunting purposes. This bullet has been very successful on half-size NRA Silhouette targets.

The #1375 was introduced in 1984
.
Thanks for all that. I didn't see it in the Sierra manual but I never even think to look on their website. The Hodgdon annual also says 1 to 14 is fine. Going to load some maybe tonight. Hopefully shoot them in a couple days. Let you kknow what happens.

Offline jasnt

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2018, 05:22:09 PM »
Why they haven't put out a fast twist 22-250 is beyond me.
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Offline Eric M

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2018, 05:42:16 PM »
Why they haven't put out a fast twist 22-250 is beyond me.
:yeah:

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2018, 04:47:40 PM »
Why they haven't put out a fast twist 22-250 is beyond me.


I'm bar from any type of rifle  expert. Why change what works?  I would think faster twist equals faster barrel wear?
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Offline Eric M

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2018, 05:31:37 PM »
Why they haven't put out a fast twist 22-250 is beyond me.


I'm bar from any type of rifle  expert. Why change what works?  I would think faster twist equals faster barrel wear?
It's a trade off

Offline jasnt

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2018, 06:56:46 PM »
Why they haven't put out a fast twist 22-250 is beyond me.


I'm bar from any type of rifle  expert. Why change what works?  I would think faster twist equals faster barrel wear?
to take advantage of the case capacity in a 22cal and shoot heavys to buck wind better.  It most folks main complaint with a 22-250.  A 1:7 twist 250 would be sweet for whistle pigs
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"... we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude. I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. And so it is with you... we are in charge of our Attitudes."
Charles R. Swindoll

Online bobcat

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2018, 07:54:37 PM »
You can get the Savage VLP in a 22-250 with a 1-9 twist.

https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12VLPDBM

Offline AWS

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2018, 09:56:57 AM »
Being and older shooter(Old Fa-t according to my wife), when the 22-250 was legitimized there were no heavies available and the 22-250 was a benchrest, varmint and predator round.  I don't believe even commercial bullet makers could produce  a long heavy high rotational bullet at the time, we had a hard enough time getting 243 bullets that worked on big game.  The 22-250 filled it's knitch perfectly as it had been doing as a wildcat before for years.   Back then if you needed more bullet weight you went up in caliber until you got what you needed.

Imagine how screw thing would be if now 1-8 became the norm and the bullet manufactures started to promote 80gr bullets for the 22-250 and thousands of 22-250 shooters can't get the new wizbang bullets through the paper any way but sideways.  Just ask any oldtime Savage 99 250 Savage shooter, the latest bullets from the manufactured 250 Sav and a majority of old 99's won't shoot them accurately.

What they need to do is bring out a fast twist .224 with about the same capacity as the 22-250 just for heavies that won't fit in a 22-250. 
After the first shot the rest are just noise.

Make mine a Minaska

Offline Eric M

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2018, 10:18:26 AM »
Being and older shooter(Old Fa-t according to my wife), when the 22-250 was legitimized there were no heavies available and the 22-250 was a benchrest, varmint and predator round.  I don't believe even commercial bullet makers could produce  a long heavy high rotational bullet at the time, we had a hard enough time getting 243 bullets that worked on big game.  The 22-250 filled it's knitch perfectly as it had been doing as a wildcat before for years.   Back then if you needed more bullet weight you went up in caliber until you got what you needed.

Imagine how screw thing would be if now 1-8 became the norm and the bullet manufactures started to promote 80gr bullets for the 22-250 and thousands of 22-250 shooters can't get the new wizbang bullets through the paper any way but sideways.  Just ask any oldtime Savage 99 250 Savage shooter, the latest bullets from the manufactured 250 Sav and a majority of old 99's won't shoot them accurately.

What they need to do is bring out a fast twist .224 with about the same capacity as the 22-250 just for heavies that won't fit in a 22-250.
I don't disagree. I'm pretty sure twist in 12 and 14 are here to stay. For me it was just an excuse to go shooting. I'm having fun playing around. I've had pretty good luck with 55 grain and for coyote and stuff that's what I'll stick with. This was more just to see if I could.

Online bobcat

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Re: Need some stability
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2018, 10:33:46 AM »
What they need to do is bring out a fast twist .224 with about the same capacity as the 22-250 just for heavies that won't fit in a 22-250.

Like the 223 WSSM? Mine has a 1-10 twist. I also have noticed plenty of 223 Remington chambered rifles available with a 1-9 twist.

 

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