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Author Topic: Cougar Research from Alberta  (Read 1606 times)

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Cougar Research from Alberta
« on: January 17, 2018, 12:41:04 PM »
https://www.nontypical.org/news/2018/1/15/the-deadly-truth-most-dont-know-about-mountain-lions

Some interesting research from Alberta about cougar diets and prey selection/impact. 

I would love to see a 180lb tom take a feral horse.  :o

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 12:53:14 PM »
a good read, I liked the comment from the guy who said the study confirms what we have known about lions for decades
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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 01:02:18 PM »
Very interesting.  Thanks for posting.
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Offline mfswallace

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 01:41:47 PM »
4000-6000 cougars in Washington equals 166,400-249,600 dead ungulates a year, mostly deer... :yike: :yike:
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Offline MooseZ25

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 03:15:05 PM »
Explains what is happening to the ungulate populations here in NE Washington.  But like stated before we have known this for decades....
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Offline nwwanderer

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2018, 03:33:51 PM »
Thanks, good info.  Any sources on the 4000-6000 in Washington?  I certainly agree but the state seems stuck on 2000.  What is the effect of cat kill in Washington where wolves thrive.  Yellowstone studies show wolf taking cat kill regularly so cats kill more frequently.  Need to move some of those big males to Nevada, great 'organic' feral horse control.

Offline bigmacc

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2018, 06:26:39 PM »
Explains what is happening to the ungulate populations here in NE Washington.  But like stated before we have known this for decades....

A big contributor to the Methow herd decline also, I said this before in another thread but here it is again, I have seen more cougars in the Methow in the last 5 years than I have seen total in the previous 50, and its more and more every year. They are doing a number on that herd. Came across over 20 cached kills this year also, it was during a 10 day period this past season in two different areas in the valley.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2018, 06:38:59 PM »
a lot more accurate than the propaganda Weilgus put to WDFW

Offline kellama2001

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2018, 04:46:44 PM »
Informative and interesting! Thanks for sharing  :tup:
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Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2018, 10:49:14 AM »
https://www.nontypical.org/news/2018/1/15/the-deadly-truth-most-dont-know-about-mountain-lions

Some interesting research from Alberta about cougar diets and prey selection/impact. 

I would love to see a 180lb tom take a feral horse.  :o
I had a Wyoming rancher show me where a very determined large cougar killed a 2,200lb Charolais bull.  They had left him behind on summer pasture because he had a bad limp, and they found the kill when they returned to truck him.  Looked like a methhead had run a rototiller over 10 acres.  We believed it was likely a large tom that was infamous in that area for coming back on his track to meet and kill dogs, the houndsmen eventually quit trying to hunt him.  A coworker found the skull of a large tom (14 7/8") in the same area that had been killed by badder tom, canine punctures in the skull from a bite across the top of the head.   
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline William Lai

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2018, 12:04:35 PM »
I couldn't read the article as it led to a nonexistent page.

But, predator-to-prey ratio goes in cycles. Once the deer population decline there won't enough food for all the cougars to survive, and the cougars decline and the deer population rebound.  Same thing with Snowshoe Hares, it goes in a 8-11 year cycle.  It's just that humans have a bias against cougars and bias for deers, for obvious reasons.

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2018, 12:28:45 PM »
I couldn't read the article as it led to a nonexistent page.

But, predator-to-prey ratio goes in cycles. Once the deer population decline there won't enough food for all the cougars to survive, and the cougars decline and the deer population rebound.  Same thing with Snowshoe Hares, it goes in a 8-11 year cycle.  It's just that humans have a bias against cougars and bias for deers, for obvious reasons.

It has been 21 years since we lost the means to control cougar numbers. I have seen nothing but a downward trajectory for deer and elk numbers. That makes me doubt the 8-11 year cycle you mention. I'm sure there are less cougars now then say 15 years ago but if anyone thinks the deer or elk will come back to any significant numbers I think they are mistaken.
I would bet cougar numbers do fluctuate up and down a bit but not enough to notice much change in ungulate numbers.
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2018, 10:07:34 AM »
I couldn't read the article as it led to a nonexistent page.

But, predator-to-prey ratio goes in cycles. Once the deer population decline there won't enough food for all the cougars to survive, and the cougars decline and the deer population rebound.  Same thing with Snowshoe Hares, it goes in a 8-11 year cycle.  It's just that humans have a bias against cougars and bias for deers, for obvious reasons.

You seem to infer certain prejudices that you assume regarding hunters. Cougar are one of my favorite animals to hunt or just to know they are out there. But we need to manage their numbers so that they don't negatively impact other wildlife numbers and livestock owners. With proper management all wildlife can coexist together without heavily impacting other wildlife. :twocents:
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Offline buglebrush

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2018, 10:13:04 AM »
Explains what is happening to the ungulate populations here in NE Washington.  But like stated before we have known this for decades....

A big contributor to the Methow herd decline also, I said this before in another thread but here it is again, I have seen more cougars in the Methow in the last 5 years than I have seen total in the previous 50, and its more and more every year. They are doing a number on that herd. Came across over 20 cached kills this year also, it was during a 10 day period this past season in two different areas in the valley.

Exactly.  Yet, the only option many consider is reduced hunting.  WDFW needs to grow some balls, and bring back hound hunting and get rid of their insanely low quotas! 

Offline Special T

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2018, 11:49:04 AM »
I love to see hound hunting come back. Unfortunately that is a battle we are unlikely to win. The Department sure won't support it.

 We need to push back but incrementally with rule changes we could make happen. Cage trapping? Longer Seasons? Bigger quotas?

With out a doubt we all need to do more on our part to thin the population, and I don't know much about cats... other than there seems to be a lot of them.

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Offline SpurInSpokane

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2018, 12:44:40 PM »
Just saw this thread but the link doesn't lead to the article anymore. Anyone have a working link?

Offline bigmacc

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2018, 12:52:11 PM »
Explains what is happening to the ungulate populations here in NE Washington.  But like stated before we have known this for decades....

A big contributor to the Methow herd decline also, I said this before in another thread but here it is again, I have seen more cougars in the Methow in the last 5 years than I have seen total in the previous 50, and its more and more every year. They are doing a number on that herd. Came across over 20 cached kills this year also, it was during a 10 day period this past season in two different areas in the valley.

Exactly.  Yet, the only option many consider is reduced hunting.  WDFW needs to grow some balls, and bring back hound hunting and get rid of their insanely low quotas!

In 1982 ish I seen something that most people have not seen in person, I was in the Mehow the 1st week of December counting deer. I was watching a herd of about 40(yep back then that was common) all bunched up, all looking in the same direction with their ears pushed forward. It was about 10 below zero with about a foot to 15'' of hard, frozen snow on the ground. There was about 6 bucks in the bunch with 2 of them being a couple dandys. I was about 100 yards away, standing in the open and they could care less about me, a couple does and a small buck briefly looked at me once for about 5 seconds and then turned back to watching what they had been focused on. I looked up where their attention was fixed with my binos but at first scan could not see anything. I kept looking and in the rocks about 20 feet above them I seen what looked like a face, I kept studying it and after a couple minutes of really scanning the object I seen a quick movement, now I figured it out and put the pieces of the object together, what I saw move was a tail and what I was looking at in the rocks was parts of a cat. After about 5 - 6 minutes of the standoff the herd slowly did an about face and SLOWLY started taking very slow steps, going back down the draw like they were trying to put the slip on something. That cat jumped out of those rocks onto the back of one of the smaller bucks and all hell broak loose, the herd scattered and the fight was on between the buck and lion, after about a 10 minute skirmish it was over and the buck was dead. At that time(early 80,s) I had been hunting the Methow for about 16 years, that was the 2nd cougar I had seen. Up until approx, 2010 we had seen about 5 or 6 cougars total over there, and that includes myself and other members of our group, thats spending a lot of time in the valley, hunting, hiking, fishing, scouting and living from time to time for months at a time. Since 2010 we have seen probably 26 between 5 of us, needless to say we have all started buying cougar tags the last couple years. I know there is a lot of talk about "other" predators in the valley and they are all having a negative impact on that mule deer herd but just from my observations, I can tell you from what I,ve seen and talking to old-timers I know over there, cats are knocking the crap out of that herd and have been since the "DOGS WERE CALLED OFF".It truly is a shame that our WDFW can't figure this out and actually manage this herd the way they were managed before they became WDFW. I know they know bout the cats because we sure see a lot of them with nice expensive collars on.

I will also add this to the story that in the last 5 or 6 years in most of the areas we hunt in the Methow its not a rarity, in fact it is common to find cougar kills scattered around, as I mentioned we found around 20 in one of our haunts, needless to say we saw 0 deer or sign(spent 2 days in there and hung it up) Sadly it was an area that our family has consistently pulled some big deer out of going back to the early 1900,s, it was very sad to see it null and void of deer this year except for the half buried carcasses. That all happened just in the last year, last year we saw some deer in there and no cached kills.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 03:34:34 PM by bigmacc »

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2018, 06:43:12 PM »
Yea bigmacc those good old days are long past unfortunately

Offline JakeLand

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2018, 09:35:40 PM »
IF they're not smart enough to legalize dogs then they should legalize trapping them and even better yet legalize both!!

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2018, 10:25:34 PM »
I couldn't find the study  but I found this http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/wildlife-management/documents/WildlifeMgmtPlan-Cougars-Nov2012B.pdf
from Alberta about management of cougars. Pretty interesting.
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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2018, 10:56:18 PM »
I’ve seen more cougars in the last 8 years than ALL of my years combined in the woods. Called some in, stumbled upon 4 @20 yards (long story) watched a cougar/moose back and forth stand-off... elk are talking less-(cougars and wolves).

 I work and play in the woods, and the impacts of predators going unchecked is obvious to all that are “really” looking.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2018, 04:46:43 AM »
I couldn't find the study  but I found this http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/wildlife-management/documents/WildlifeMgmtPlan-Cougars-Nov2012B.pdf
from Alberta about management of cougars. Pretty interesting.

Quote
Management Goals, Objectives and Strategies for the Future
Cougars are appreciated for their intrinsic value and as a trophy game animal, yet they can cause conflicts with people through predation on pets and livestock, and can create public safety concerns. Cougar management in Alberta will reflect a need to balance cougar conservation with strong public sentiment that opposes the presence of cougars in rural residential and agricultural landscapes. Management objectives and strategies will include:

• Ensuring that cougar populations are protected from significant decline and that viable populations are maintained.

• Maximizing the benefits to Albertans through optimum allocation of the cougar resource amongst recreational, commercial, and other users.

• Maximizing the recreational benefits and enjoyment to Albertans from the cougar resource through the provision of a variety of recreational opportunities, including viewing and hunting.

• Providing a commercial benefit to Albertans from the cougar resource through tourism and non-resident hunting.

• Minimizing property damage and risks to human safety caused by cougars by ensuring that cougar predation on livestock and pets is reduced as much as possible, continuing the Wildlife Predator Compensation Program, and removing or relocating offending individuals.

• Promoting and encouraging scientific and educational activity to enhance knowledge of cougars.

I like their: Management Goals, Objectives and Strategies for the Future
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline buglebrush

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2018, 08:48:33 AM »
I’ve seen more cougars in the last 8 years than ALL of my years combined in the woods. Called some in, stumbled upon 4 @20 yards (long story) watched a cougar/moose back and forth stand-off... elk are talking less-(cougars and wolves).

 I work and play in the woods, and the impacts of predators going unchecked is obvious to all that are “really” looking.

Absolutely.  Obvious to everyone except WDFW's brainwashed minions.

Offline bigmacc

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2018, 02:44:12 PM »
Sorry to the original poster but I should have put my posts that are in this thread,  in the "cougar Chills" thread :tup:

Offline William Lai

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Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2018, 09:27:16 PM »

You seem to infer certain prejudices that you assume regarding hunters. Cougar are one of my favorite animals to hunt or just to know they are out there. But we need to manage their numbers so that they don't negatively impact other wildlife numbers and livestock owners. With proper management all wildlife can coexist together without heavily impacting other wildlife. :twocents:
Bearpaw I think you may be reading too much into my post.  Predator-prey cycles are natural phenomenon and I'm simply hypothesizing there may be a rebound at some point if things are left to nature. And I don't know what the length of that cycle is; 8-11 yrs is just for snowshoe hares, and it certainly seems plenty of hunters agree that the cougar-ungulate cycle hasn't yet peaked.

Of course, as the apex predator humans hunting cougars or wolves or whatever is very much natural as well, just not the way humans conventionally think of "nature".
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 09:27:02 PM by William Lai »

 

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