collapse
Helping Big Game Hunters experience adventures all over the world. Bearpaw Outfitters, Quality Hunts for over 30 Years

Author Topic: Cougar Research from Alberta  (Read 1605 times)

Offline ribka

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 5164
  • Location: E side
  • That's what she said
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2018, 09:45:59 PM »
The cougar ungulate cycle? :chuckle:

Always learning something new on here

Offline Skyvalhunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 11268
  • Location: The valley
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2018, 04:56:46 AM »
cougar-ungulet cycle now that's funny

Offline William Lai

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 3
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2018, 09:31:20 PM »
For example, people have studied Wolf-Moose population over time.

If you are curious, here's a good intro: https://www.khanacademy.org/science/biology/ecology/community-ecosystem-ecology/v/predator-prey-cycle

Offline Humptulips

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 4166
  • Location: Humptulips
    • Washington State Trappers Association
  • Groups: WSTA, NTA, FTA, OTA, WWC, WFW, NRA
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2018, 10:19:39 PM »
For example, people have studied Wolf-Moose population over time.

If you are curious, here's a good intro: https://www.khanacademy.org/science/biology/ecology/community-ecosystem-ecology/v/predator-prey-cycle

I did not see anything to do with cougar or wolves or moose or anything else except lynx and hares.
Everything on there is supposition when it comes to large carnivores. It would be nice if there was some sort of predator-prey cycle with cougar/wolves and ungulates that we could look at and see a bounce back of ungulates in x amount of years. I've never seen anything like that though.
To top it all off my understanding is the hare die off is not caused by an excess of lynx so even that cycle the guy talks about is questionable.
Only thing I ever remember reading on this was about Isle Royal I think it was and that was a very small closed system.
I'd have to see something more concrete to buy into it.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline ribka

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 5164
  • Location: E side
  • That's what she said
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2018, 10:33:35 PM »
For example, people have studied Wolf-Moose population over time.

If you are curious, here's a good intro: https://www.khanacademy.org/science/biology/ecology/community-ecosystem-ecology/v/predator-prey-cycle

Confused

I grew up in nw WI where we had a snowshoe hares and grouse cycles but zero lynx and zero cougars and  very very few wolves in the 70's and 80's

So wolves and cougars are the same and both hunt in packs and have the same reproductive rates?

Moose and mule deer inhabit the same winter and summer ranges, have the same reproductive rates as moose, eat the same browse and live in herds like mule deer?

Is this A Seattle base wildlife biology thing? :dunno:Maybe those who live in urban areas like Seattle just know more about wildlife biology and people who live among the wildlife every day are just dumb rubes? :dunn

Please educate us dumb sportsmen on here
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 10:39:00 PM by ribka »

Offline Skyvalhunter

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 11268
  • Location: The valley
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2018, 05:11:41 AM »
For example, people have studied Wolf-Moose population over time.

If you are curious, here's a good intro: https://www.khanacademy.org/science/biology/ecology/community-ecosystem-ecology/v/predator-prey-cycle

You forgot one major issue with your beliefs. The population was down prior to wolves being in these areas. When you introduce the highest predator into the equation that results in a significant decrease in the game animals where they cannot recover from.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 11:47:58 AM by Skyvalhunter »

Offline time2hunt

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2010
  • Posts: 1012
  • Location: Ellensburg
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2018, 08:45:21 AM »
Anyone able to pull this link up or find the article again ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Local 3482

Offline RB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1787
  • Location: Arlington, washington
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2018, 10:02:15 AM »
Anyone able to pull this link up or find the article again ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Look at the link Humptulips posted earlier in this thread
IAFF #3728

Bob Beam

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 28367
  • Location: Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: WFW, WSTA, WSB, WPHA, FWM, NRA, SCI, RMEF, NAHC, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://trophymaps.com "Do-It-Yourself" Hunting Maps" 
http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided, Semi-Guided, Unguided, and Drop Camp Hunts in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Washington. Hunts with tags available (no draw) spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf!

Offline rainshadow1

  • RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2007
  • Posts: 2054
  • Location: Selah, WA - Sequim, WA
  • Custom Calls and Knives
    • http://www.facebook.com/pages/RainShadow-Game-Calls-Custom-Knives/133406026689512?ref=hl
    • RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2018, 11:40:21 AM »
I couldn't read the article as it led to a nonexistent page.

But, predator-to-prey ratio goes in cycles. Once the deer population decline there won't enough food for all the cougars to survive, and the cougars decline and the deer population rebound.  Same thing with Snowshoe Hares, it goes in a 8-11 year cycle.  It's just that humans have a bias against cougars and bias for deers, for obvious reasons.

You seem to infer certain prejudices that you assume regarding hunters. Cougar are one of my favorite animals to hunt or just to know they are out there. But we need to manage their numbers so that they don't negatively impact other wildlife numbers and livestock owners. With proper management all wildlife can coexist together without heavily impacting other wildlife. :twocents:

I realize that Mr Lai referred to this thought in later posts, but I need to comment... This is the mindset that has led WDFW to remove the human element from wildlife management. Like we're not here, and like we're not supposed to play a role. Completely upside down thinking. Humans have a right, and more importantly a responsibility to actively regulate the swings of predator/prey cycles. And it can be done... easily... but we (hunters) have to be written into the management of species. It's simple, but something that doesn't penetrate the ears of politically biased upper managers.
- - Steve
View and Purchase/Order Custom Calls!
Cougar Hunters!!! Check out Calling Products and Call-In Stories!
View the Blade Gallery, & Purchase/Order a Custom Knife!
 www.rain-shadow.com

RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives on Facebook

Offline idaho guy

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 678
  • Location: hayden
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2018, 12:20:17 PM »
I couldn't read the article as it led to a nonexistent page.

But, predator-to-prey ratio goes in cycles. Once the deer population decline there won't enough food for all the cougars to survive, and the cougars decline and the deer population rebound.  Same thing with Snowshoe Hares, it goes in a 8-11 year cycle.  It's just that humans have a bias against cougars and bias for deers, for obvious reasons.

You seem to infer certain prejudices that you assume regarding hunters. Cougar are one of my favorite animals to hunt or just to know they are out there. But we need to manage their numbers so that they don't negatively impact other wildlife numbers and livestock owners. With proper management all wildlife can coexist together without heavily impacting other wildlife. :twocents:

I realize that Mr Lai referred to this thought in later posts, but I need to comment... This is the mindset that has led WDFW to remove the human element from wildlife management. Like we're not here, and like we're not supposed to play a role. Completely upside down thinking. Humans have a right, and more importantly a responsibility to actively regulate the swings of predator/prey cycles. And it can be done... easily... but we (hunters) have to be written into the management of species. It's simple, but something that doesn't penetrate the ears of politically biased upper managers.


 :yeah:

Offline bearpaw

  • Family, Friends, Outdoors
  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 28367
  • Location: Colville
  • "Rather Be Cougar Huntin"
    • http://www.facebook.com/DaleDenney
    • Bearpaw Outfitters
  • Groups: WFW, WSTA, WSB, WPHA, FWM, NRA, SCI, RMEF, NAHC, IOGA, MOGA, CCOC, BBB
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2018, 12:23:51 PM »
I couldn't read the article as it led to a nonexistent page.

But, predator-to-prey ratio goes in cycles. Once the deer population decline there won't enough food for all the cougars to survive, and the cougars decline and the deer population rebound.  Same thing with Snowshoe Hares, it goes in a 8-11 year cycle.  It's just that humans have a bias against cougars and bias for deers, for obvious reasons.

You seem to infer certain prejudices that you assume regarding hunters. Cougar are one of my favorite animals to hunt or just to know they are out there. But we need to manage their numbers so that they don't negatively impact other wildlife numbers and livestock owners. With proper management all wildlife can coexist together without heavily impacting other wildlife. :twocents:

I realize that Mr Lai referred to this thought in later posts, but I need to comment... This is the mindset that has led WDFW to remove the human element from wildlife management. Like we're not here, and like we're not supposed to play a role. Completely upside down thinking. Humans have a right, and more importantly a responsibility to actively regulate the swings of predator/prey cycles. And it can be done... easily... but we (hunters) have to be written into the management of species. It's simple, but something that doesn't penetrate the ears of politically biased upper managers.


 :yeah:

 :yeah: x3
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

http://trophymaps.com "Do-It-Yourself" Hunting Maps" 
http://bearpawoutfitters.com Guided, Semi-Guided, Unguided, and Drop Camp Hunts in Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Washington. Hunts with tags available (no draw) spring bear, fall bear, buffalo, cougar, elk, mule deer, turkey, whitetail, wolf!

Offline mfswallace

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Posts: 2497
  • Location: where I be
Re: Cougar Research from Alberta
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2018, 02:28:28 PM »
http://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/01/07/cougar-hunt-in-alberta-sparks-debate-among-scientists-hunters-and-activists/


Hunters have been killing cougars in Alberta for decades.

They often follow prints in the snow or use dogs to track the big cats before they are shot with guns or bows.

Last month, outdoor television host Steve Ecklund’s cougar hunt led to online threats and criticisms — including a penis comment from Laureen Harper, wife of former prime minister Stephen Harper — after he bragged about it on social media.

Similar outrage followed the killing of No. 148, a well-known Banff grizzly bear, by a hunter in British Columbia last summer.

Both kills were legal.

Scientists say a cultural divide still exists — even within their own community — about hunting large carnivores.

“It’s seeing a much greater value on an individual animal rather than a population, but the system is set up for us to manage populations, not individuals,” said Adam Ford, an assistant professor of biology at University of British Columbia Okanagan.

“You see this come up when the individual-focus conservation people see a dead cougar and call people out for having a small penis.

“The way hunting has been designed for a long time is to not have an impact on the population.”

Alberta has regulated its cougar population since 1969. An annual quota allows up to 155 animals to be hunted each year.

The province estimates there are 2,000 to 3,500 cougars.

Both the government’s top carnivore expert and University of Alberta biologist Mark Boyce have said it’s a sustainable population that must be managed because cougars can prey on cattle or become a public safety risk.

Similar debates have taken place around grizzly bears. The hunt in B.C. was banned last month after surveys showed it wasn’t supported by most residents.

Although people are concerned about “beautiful cuddly carnivores” being shot, Ford said he worries scientists have been weighing in on the ethical debate over hunting.

“My morals are different than yours, but facts should be facts,” he said, noting he’s working on a paper looking at the growing divide between scientists on issues such as hunting.

Hunters have defended the hunt as a tradition.

“As outdoor enthusiasts, we look for opportunities to get into the outdoors,” said Wayne Lowry, a hunter and past president of the Alberta Fish and Game Association. “The cougar season offers a very late-season hunting opportunity.”

Lowry, who killed a cougar near Crowsnest Pass about 15 years ago, said it’s unlike any hunt he’s experienced.

“It took me two years,” he said. “For me, it was a once-in-a-lifetime kind of event.

He still has the mounted cat in his home.

“It was a great experience … You see the dogs get excited and you get excited as well.”

Lowry admitted there’s a lot of controversy about hunting.

“The debate is the same regardless of who it is, where it happens and what the species is. You have people who don’t like it and people who do.”

One scientist said the outrage is not generally with hunting, but an ethical debate over killing large carnivores that can suffer. Chris Darimont, associate professor of geography at the University of Victoria, said hunting for sport makes people uncomfortable.

“They cannot accept the idea that people kill carnivores not to feed their families, but to feed their egos,” said Darimont, who is opposed to killing animals other than for food or protection.

Ecklund said in a social media post that he made a stir-fry from the cougar, although eating the meat isn’t required by law.

Darimont, who hunts one elk or deer a year for food, said it’s a “thin veil of deception” for hunters to say they’re eating the animals, because predator meat isn’t very tasty.

“Wildlife managers for decades have acknowledged that these (animals) are not killed for their meat, but for their trophy items.”

The cougar hunt in Alberta should be re-evaluated, Darimont suggested. Science shows there are risks in overharvesting, because it’s tough to count carnivores and get a clear picture of the population, he said.

“There’s lots of uncertainty. Managers can and do make mistakes, and then we are just starting to learn of the evolutionary and social costs of killing large carnivores.”

The Alberta government says it hasn’t received any calls to end the hunt since the cougar controversy hit.

The province did ban the grizzly bear hunt in 2006 due to concerns about a dwindling population — although recent increases in some areas have led to calls to allow it to return in Alberta.
The Soady 2 Holer!!
Schevy Schooka Schit


 

* Recent Topics

Let's see your custom handguns! by PolarBear
[Yesterday at 11:58:50 PM]


Keegan wilder benefit 3d shoot. by sled
[Yesterday at 11:16:51 PM]


2005 cummins, what to look for by addicted
[Yesterday at 10:49:09 PM]


Any feed back on leupold vx-3i lrp 8.5-25x50mm? by Magnum_Willys
[Yesterday at 10:36:48 PM]


Dog torn ACL's by DoubleJ
[Yesterday at 10:17:06 PM]


New to WA by Birdguy
[Yesterday at 10:12:52 PM]


6.5 Grendel to 1050 yards by Biggerhammer
[Yesterday at 10:10:27 PM]


WTS Carbide dies 9mm 41mag 357mag 454 casull by Reidus
[Yesterday at 10:05:11 PM]


I don’t know why I am surprised by JimmyHoffa
[Yesterday at 09:53:34 PM]


COYOTE MADNESS 10 SIGN-UPS..... by Emptyhanded
[Yesterday at 09:22:16 PM]


2018 Youth Hunt Dates??? by bobcat
[Yesterday at 09:21:03 PM]


AR15 Accessories by 300winmag
[Yesterday at 09:07:42 PM]


Your favorite go too weapon for coyote hunting by 257WTBY
[Yesterday at 09:05:13 PM]


Happy Valentines Day by Turdle
[Yesterday at 08:37:38 PM]


Books by Hot Lunch
[Yesterday at 08:30:15 PM]


Fish and Game hat by Turdle
[Yesterday at 08:28:32 PM]


.204 or 22-250? by CAMPMEAT
[Yesterday at 08:22:00 PM]


Blacktail archery ? by JasonG
[Yesterday at 08:20:30 PM]


2 swim through traps $150 by klikboom
[Yesterday at 08:17:03 PM]


Rayonier permits? by Wetwoodshunter
[Yesterday at 08:11:52 PM]