collapse

Author Topic: 209 Muzzy's In Washington  (Read 8384 times)

Offline Twang

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 37
  • Location: Marysville
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #105 on: February 14, 2018, 01:56:35 PM »
Indeed  if you want to shot long, use  scope, be careless with your powder and primer go mod and quit changing it to suit you when that hunt already exists. You ruin it for others. Better yet, stack me up and go semi auto

Offline floatinghat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 690
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #106 on: February 16, 2018, 08:02:27 AM »
more heat at the ignition point which then creates the 'crud ring'.

Interesting,  What effect does the shape of the BP have on the crud ring?  I notice the crud ring much more on my Knight vs a White.  I wondered if the bowl shape of the White BP was the cause.  Next question could the Knight BP be modified to achieve a similar result? 


Offline Sabotloader

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 2009
  • Location: Idaho, Northern
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #107 on: February 16, 2018, 07:47:04 PM »
more heat at the ignition point which then creates the 'crud ring'.

Interesting,  What effect does the shape of the BP have on the crud ring?  I notice the crud ring much more on my Knight vs a White.  I wondered if the bowl shape of the White BP was the cause.  Next question could the Knight BP be modified to achieve a similar result?

Not sure on the shape/construction of the BP creating a difference... Is your White use a 209 ignition?  I guess I should ask about the Knight also - 209?

For me shooting caps from either the White or a Knight no real difference at all in fact I really do not even patch when shooting caps.

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline BigGoonTuna

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 1943
  • Location: Rainier
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #108 on: February 20, 2018, 08:11:10 AM »
Indeed  if you want to shot long, use  scope, be careless with your powder and primer go mod and quit changing it to suit you when that hunt already exists. You ruin it for others. Better yet, stack me up and go semi auto
wow, tell us how you really feel!
you can still get gas in heaven, and a drink in kingdom come,
in the meantime, i'll be cleaning my gun

Offline floatinghat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 690
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #109 on: February 28, 2018, 10:45:54 PM »
more heat at the ignition point which then creates the 'crud ring'.

Interesting,  What effect does the shape of the BP have on the crud ring?  I notice the crud ring much more on my Knight vs a White.  I wondered if the bowl shape of the White BP was the cause.  Next question could the Knight BP be modified to achieve a similar result?

Sorry I have been travelling on business, both are #11.

Not sure on the shape/construction of the BP creating a difference... Is your White use a 209 ignition?  I guess I should ask about the Knight also - 209?

For me shooting caps from either the White or a Knight no real difference at all in fact I really do not even patch when shooting caps.

Offline reelamin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 99
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #110 on: March 13, 2018, 01:16:41 PM »
So can we use 209's now in Wa???    I have looked with my limited internet skills and never found a final answer.

Offline JimmyHoffa

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 10603
  • Location: 150 Years Too Late
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #111 on: March 13, 2018, 01:31:41 PM »
So can we use 209's now in Wa???    I have looked with my limited internet skills and never found a final answer.
More than likely it looks like 2018 will be the first season for it, but won't know for sure until the new regs are adopted by the WDFW commission in a few weeks.

Offline mallardaddict

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 30
  • Location: Rainy Western WA
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #112 on: March 13, 2018, 04:04:24 PM »
So can we use 209's now in Wa???    I have looked with my limited internet skills and never found a final answer.

The proposal will be presented and public opinion allowed 03/14-16 I believe in Wenatchee at the annual meeting. Assuming it passes this committee it goes to the board for final adoption or denial I believe 04/12.

I ah e talked to many folks in the wdfw and most think it will pass.

If so I will take advantage of the change, if not I have other muzzleloader I can use no sweat.

My only concern is the outright attacks even in this board by the anti 209 crowd on the pro 209 crowd. Different strokes for different folks but I have issue begrudging another individual or group because they think differnt then me.  We are all on the same team and 209ís and sealed breeches have been repeatedly shown to only slightly if at all better then open ignitions.

This rule change will indeed attract a few more hunters, but that is likely to be short lived. The real benefit is that it opens the Washington state muzzleloader market to a *censored* load more muzzleloader platforms.

Offline floatinghat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 690
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #113 on: March 14, 2018, 10:12:19 AM »


Interesting those with a different opinion are attacking and antis.   "Different strokes for different folks but I have issue begrudging another individual or group because they think differnt then me."  Irony here, you appear to want to make your pro point and not let others have input and name label then anti's and attackers.

I have mentioned my concern, if it brings more people to muzzy the number of animals harvest will increase and that will effect the seasons.  We have already had people suggest lengthening the early season and shortening the late season.

 True some people will come in for a couple of seasons and quit. 

If there is only a slight improvement why the fuss.  What platforms are needed with our open sight restrictions?  I see the next request 0x scopes...

Offline mallardaddict

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Pilgrim
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 30
  • Location: Rainy Western WA
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #114 on: March 14, 2018, 07:48:01 PM »
  Irony here, you appear to want to make your pro point and not let others have input and name label then anti's and attackers.

Holy shÔt did you even read what I wrote dude?  Do me a favor find 1 single post on any forum where I have ever cast the first attack at anyone for their thoughts and preferences and I will gladly rub your nose in the fact that you canít.

I also said nothing about a ďneedĒ for new weapons platforms but rather I support allowing hunters a greater option of brands and models. The state doesnít say you can only use Remington rifles and not savage under modern firearm rules  So why are we excluding over 75% of the muzzleloader on the market.  Again if your happy with the weapon you use why do you care what I use as long as itís legal and ethical?

I also donít think we will see a decrease in seasons simply because they allow 209ís.  As the bow rules were relaxed to allow higher let off, expanadable broadheads, lighted nicks etc we have watched a steady increase in not only in participants but also in success ratios.  Despite these increases bow hunters have not suffered any measurable loss of their seasons that wasnít also enacted on ML and Rifle seasons.

I prefer 209 primers for the ability to reliably ignite pellets or perhaps BH209 if I choose.  None of these powders give any significant velocity or energy increases over real black, just have slightly easier cleaning. It isnít like this is legislation to allow smokeless mizzleloaders.  Again how is this bad?

Sealed breeches can help cut down on hangfires which could undeniably have a positive effect on decreased wounding of animals from hangfires. A guy can already legally tape or plastic wrap his breechplug area to seal it so why the big deal of a gun comes with sealed breech?

It comes down to emotion and no scientific data to support the exclusion of 209ís as presented by the anti 209 crowd trying to overshadow data and statistics that the pro 209 group have posted.

Sounds a lot like our current gun control fights to me but sadly this is occurring between people who are on the same team!

So yes I did already buy a sealed 209 barrel for my pro encore but if that legislation fails to pass I will gladly use one of my other smokepole that has had no issues killing elk year after year.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 08:05:49 PM by mallardaddict »

Offline floatinghat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 690
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #115 on: March 15, 2018, 03:46:39 PM »
Yes, I did read your post. If you read clearly,  I wrote you "label them anti's and attackers"  these are not positive connotations.  Additionally, I am not seeing where I stated you did anything other than "label" a faction that has an opposing perspective.

 "We are all on the same team and 209ís and sealed breeches have been repeatedly shown to only slightly if at all better then open ignitions"  Implication is the people who don't agree should go along with your team and persepctive. 

You were asked what new platforms we need in responce to "it will open Washington to new platforms".  So this is more of a let me shoot what I want.  So similar to the peeps that want to legalize .22x for big game hunting?

Success, the seasons duration are directly tied to harvest success rates.  Sure it takes a few years for things to catch up, few days here and there.  Not certain if the previously massive allocation of Cow Elk Permits is the clearest indicator?   

209's, I have rarely shot pellets but a friend does and hasn't had ignition issues.  You can easily shoot BH209 by duplexing (I am not suggesting you duplex) only saying a number of people duplex BH209.    I'll agree there are advantages to 209's but that doesn't mean the legislation should allow it. Most of the issues (hang fire) with #11/MC are easily addressed with good planning and preperation.

What happens will happen and we will see the results in about 9-12 years. IMO, status quo little to risk, allow 209's I think that increases.   As I have said in the past, I don't have a great deal of confidence for positive fixes come from Olympia.   

I'll give you what could be a positive, more people, opens more GMU's. 


From my tablet sorry if I missed anything



Offline W_Ellison2011

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2011
  • Posts: 460
  • Location: Graham, Wa
Re: 209 Muzzy's In Washington
« Reply #116 on: March 20, 2018, 05:46:43 PM »
  Irony here, you appear to want to make your pro point and not let others have input and name label then anti's and attackers.

Holy shÔt did you even read what I wrote dude?  Do me a favor find 1 single post on any forum where I have ever cast the first attack at anyone for their thoughts and preferences and I will gladly rub your nose in the fact that you canít.

I also said nothing about a ďneedĒ for new weapons platforms but rather I support allowing hunters a greater option of brands and models. The state doesnít say you can only use Remington rifles and not savage under modern firearm rules  So why are we excluding over 75% of the muzzleloader on the market.  Again if your happy with the weapon you use why do you care what I use as long as itís legal and ethical?

I also donít think we will see a decrease in seasons simply because they allow 209ís.  As the bow rules were relaxed to allow higher let off, expanadable broadheads, lighted nicks etc we have watched a steady increase in not only in participants but also in success ratios.  Despite these increases bow hunters have not suffered any measurable loss of their seasons that wasnít also enacted on ML and Rifle seasons.

I prefer 209 primers for the ability to reliably ignite pellets or perhaps BH209 if I choose.  None of these powders give any significant velocity or energy increases over real black, just have slightly easier cleaning. It isnít like this is legislation to allow smokeless mizzleloaders.  Again how is this bad?

Sealed breeches can help cut down on hangfires which could undeniably have a positive effect on decreased wounding of animals from hangfires. A guy can already legally tape or plastic wrap his breechplug area to seal it so why the big deal of a gun comes with sealed breech?

It comes down to emotion and no scientific data to support the exclusion of 209ís as presented by the anti 209 crowd trying to overshadow data and statistics that the pro 209 group have posted.

Sounds a lot like our current gun control fights to me but sadly this is occurring between people who are on the same team!

So yes I did already buy a sealed 209 barrel for my pro encore but if that legislation fails to pass I will gladly use one of my other smokepole that has had no issues killing elk year after year.
Haven't seen much of a decrease in west side muzzy or mf deer seasons... Archery deer lost a week... Just saying.. Things have changed! Used to be September 1st-30th for early archery and now its the 24th and there has been talk of them taking a few days off the beginning of September as well. Same goes for fall bear season in the unit I used to hunt them in. Used to open August 1st. Now it opens August 15th due to increased harvest.

 

* Recent Topics

Ruger M77-BZ .270 price drop to $500 firm $400 without scope by spin05
[Today at 12:08:19 AM]


Mule Deer outfitters by huntnphool
[Today at 12:05:05 AM]


Bobcat As Bobcat Bait? by Humptulips
[Yesterday at 11:52:28 PM]


Antler Poll Number TWO by wsucowboy
[Yesterday at 11:30:12 PM]


Calendar is OUT!!!! Boneaddict's 2019 Cal by Dan-o
[Yesterday at 11:27:25 PM]


New longbow by MLBowhunting
[Yesterday at 11:07:32 PM]


Spotting scope opinions by fowl smacker
[Yesterday at 11:06:35 PM]


HuntWA secret santa? by jackelope
[Yesterday at 10:48:35 PM]


Interior Secretary Zinke to Step Down After Dems Bury Him in Legal Fees and Inve by KFhunter
[Yesterday at 10:46:27 PM]


Any pointing Labs? by Old Dog
[Yesterday at 10:43:48 PM]


got squid!! by kenzmad
[Yesterday at 10:42:52 PM]


New compound opinions by KFhunter
[Yesterday at 10:37:44 PM]


Team Bad Decision (Spring Release) by SilkOnTheWetSide
[Yesterday at 10:08:42 PM]


Lost forgotten black back pack by northwestguy31
[Yesterday at 10:06:23 PM]


What will it take (a wolf thing) by KFhunter
[Yesterday at 10:03:28 PM]


Any recommended archery shops near Spokane? by KFhunter
[Yesterday at 09:40:09 PM]


2018 HuntWA Christmas Gift Exchange by Dan-o
[Yesterday at 09:33:35 PM]


Abandoned game cams by Brad Harshman
[Yesterday at 09:25:09 PM]


Wtb compound bow by bigfish51
[Yesterday at 09:23:24 PM]


Today's male!!! by pashok23
[Yesterday at 09:00:12 PM]