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Author Topic: Atlantic Salmon  (Read 16032 times)

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2018, 12:58:16 PM »
So, how does all of this imprinting knowledge end up with atlantics up multiple rivers in Puget Sound?  I've hunted Tulalip and several other terminal fisheries, I guess my question is why they don't either hang around where they were raised or return there?

Have you ever heard of straying? A certain % of salmon stray to other streams even after they have been imprinted.  So take a pen full of fish that haven't been imprinted and they will likely go all over the place. And who knows how the currents in the Sound move fresh water around and how many smells of different different streams these fish may have been exposed to?
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline Stein

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2018, 02:29:45 PM »
So, how does all of this imprinting knowledge end up with atlantics up multiple rivers in Puget Sound?  I've hunted Tulalip and several other terminal fisheries, I guess my question is why they don't either hang around where they were raised or return there?

Have you ever heard of straying? A certain % of salmon stray to other streams even after they have been imprinted.  So take a pen full of fish that haven't been imprinted and they will likely go all over the place. And who knows how the currents in the Sound move fresh water around and how many smells of different different streams these fish may have been exposed to?

Yeah, but they don't stray all that much.  How often is a sockeye caught in a river it shouldn't be in?  The story is that we caught the vast majority of those that escaped and just a few were left that should have died of starvation.  Yet, we seem to be having no trouble catching several of the one in a million "strays" that don't eat yet bit lures up numerous rivers which doesn't add up to me. Seems like a long string of coincidental longshots.

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2018, 07:11:33 PM »
Stein, here's a couple good articles about hatchery stray in Prince William Sound Alaska where I fish commercially. The problem is worse than you think. And the fish stray much farther than previously thought. Sometimes hundreds of miles from where they are supposed to go.

http://wildfishconservancy.org/resources/science-library/Brenneretal.2012HatcherysalmonstrayinginAK.pdf

http://peninsulaclarion.com/news/local/2017-12-10/data-shows-prince-william-sound-pink-salmon-homer-streams

I could go along with hatcheries and farming maybe if first and foremost, wild fish were protected from damage. I can't go along with pumping out millions of hatchery fish if it's just going to stress wild populations even more and so far that is the case.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline fish vacuum

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2018, 12:53:50 AM »


  Yet, we seem to be having no trouble catching several of the one in a million "strays" that don't eat yet bit lures up numerous rivers which doesn't add up to me.

Atlantics stray at something like 10%.

Offline Skillet

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2018, 11:58:42 AM »
How about you look up the definition of invasive species? Atlantics in no way fit it.

I'm done here until someone can actually show some evidence that pen raised salmon are a problem.  They are a scapegoat to the real problems that our native fish face.  All I've seen is conjecture and hyperbole....

@lokidog

Inviting you back to this discussion, I hope you rejoin. I've got an example of what you were asking for-

A peer-reviewed scientific journal, PLOS One, recently published the following regarding the high rate of PRV transmission from farmed to wild salmon:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0188793

A excerpt from the summary states:

... sampled wild Pacific salmon (Oncorhynchus sp.) from regions designated as high or low exposure to salmon farms and farmed Atlantic salmon reared in British Columbia (BC) were tested for PRV. The proportion of PRV infection in wild fish was related to exposure to salmon farms (p = 0.0097). PRV was detected in: 95% of farmed Atlantic salmon, 37–45% of wild salmon from regions highly exposed to salmon farms and 5% of wild salmon from the regions furthest from salmon farms."

*edited to add:  PRV, a virus, is the causitive agent of HSMI (Heart and Skeletal Muscle Inflammation) in salmon.  It is a cause of significant economic losses in farmed salmon operations.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 12:08:40 PM by Skillet »
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Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Offline j_h_nimrod

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2018, 11:48:50 PM »
PRV is endemic to this coast and found in many different fish species, mostly wild and non-cultured. Atlantic salmon seem to be most susceptible to the disease with high levels of infection and it is ubiquitous in most, if not all farms. This disease has been found in most areas of the Pacific and Atlantic, the fact that fish infected escaped is not really an issue since the disease is already widespread and not confined to just farmed salmon.

More discussion, the disease has likely been around much longer than it has been recognized and the fact it was first isolated in farms salmon only means that the more stringent and rigorous testing done at farms was able to isolate it and not that farms were the causative agent. Wild fish surveys typically have a much lower detection rate of all diseases due to their necessary collection bias and less intense scrutiny.

Offline Skillet

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #67 on: February 24, 2018, 07:30:26 AM »
Interesting points, JH, but I believe the issue the study addresses is not whether PRV is naturally occurring in PNW waters or not, but the negative relative impact the farms have in spreading the virus among the wild runs that come in closer contact with the farms than those that don't.

The fundamental takeaway is that farmed salmon concentrate the disease, and those farms increase transmission of the disease to the wild salmon that pass by.
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Offline 87Ford

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2018, 08:36:57 PM »
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/fish-farmer-destroys-800000-juvenile-atlantic-salmon-due-to-disease-second-purge-in-past-year/

"The spill and state findings led the Washington state Legislature last session to enact a gradual phaseout of net-pen farming of exotic species in Washington waters by 2025, including Atlantic salmon."

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #69 on: December 18, 2018, 08:42:42 PM »
 How would PRV be transmitted to native stocks?
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline onmygame

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #70 on: December 19, 2018, 06:08:38 AM »
How would PRV be transmitted to native stocks?

It is a virus after all, and though there doesn't appear to be any guarantee that native or hatchery stocks would become infected - it isn't a risk anyone wants to take.

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2018, 10:08:15 AM »
How would PRV be transmitted to native stocks?

It is a virus after all, and though there doesn't appear to be any guarantee that native or hatchery stocks would become infected - it isn't a risk anyone wants to take.

 I understand it's a virus, I'm asking how it's transmitted.
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #72 on: December 19, 2018, 10:31:18 AM »
Some of the farms are located in the migration paths of the native fish.  The farms have lots of effluent beneath and along the general flow of the water that the native fish could swim through, as well as sea lice.

Offline kidkodger

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #73 on: December 20, 2018, 05:31:26 PM »
I wonder if orcas like an exotic meal. 

Offline Night goat

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Re: Atlantic Salmon
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2018, 10:12:20 PM »
I don't have the energy for this tonight.

Im curious about establishing a spawning atlantic population. Maybe not frankenfish from the farms, but a good btoodstock from somewhere a little more organic... Why? Atlantics spawn several times in thier life span and are a little more resilient than our wild fish. I doubt an Atlantic population would hurt our wild numbers, if not it would probably help our fish. Do kings eat chum fry? Do pinks eat coho? Nope.

It would give the indians something to catch too instead of hacking away at whatever little runs we have left.

Im all for establishing atlantics here.

Large scale fish farming with abtibiotics and hormones feeding em salmon-chow? Hell no. Makes me sick just thinking of it. Same reason why i stopped eating beef and pork. I honestly see alit if advantages to adding atlantics.to.the ecosystem to take some of the weighr off the native fish but it would take 99 other things along with that to bring back our salmonthat will never happen.

 


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