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Author Topic: Remington bankruptcy today  (Read 1698 times)

Offline kselkhunter

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Remington bankruptcy today
« on: February 12, 2018, 09:43:42 PM »
Hopefully Remington comes out of it a healthier company. 
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/02/robert-farago/breaking-remington-filing-bankruptcy/

Actually, many of the major firearms companies have had significantly reduced sales the past year or so.

Part of why I prefer to buy new firearms over used when possible.  Would like them all to continue to prosper so we continue to have options.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2018, 09:52:21 PM »
Sad, and ironic that a Trump election victory probably pushed their over the edge.
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Offline kselkhunter

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 09:58:58 PM »
Yeah, most other websites made the political angle a huge part of the reason for drop in gun sales.  I chose to find a website link that didn't include politics in the explanation.  I'm tired of politics.

The interesting part of the arrangement is the private equity firm that held Remington completely loses it to the creditors (mostly JP Morgan & Franklin Templeton).  Debt converted to equity.  So we now wait and see what JP Morgan/etc. does with the company.


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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2018, 10:10:39 PM »
Maybe Lapua will pick up the pieces and Barnes will then be owned by same company that now owns Berger. 

Offline Biggerhammer

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2018, 10:10:41 PM »
It's all in life decisions. Your the common sum of who you associate yourself with. Some can't do simple math. In private life or in business. I have always been a big Remington person. As of lately, I'm a big Remington "Action only" fan.
Embrace the hate.

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Offline follow maggie

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 10:20:40 PM »
They’re bankrupt mostly because when Cerberus bought them about 10 years ago, they sucked all of the cash out of the company and then saddled it with billions of dollars of debt. Much like Daimler did to Chrysler.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 10:37:40 PM »
Different story yet still reminds me of the Smith and Wesson story, hopefully Remington also ends up a better company again.  :twocents:
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Offline CP

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2018, 06:50:51 AM »
It was inevitable, they have been putting out garbage for several years now.  Bad management making poor business decisions and alienating their customers.   

Offline Gringo31

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2018, 08:03:22 AM »
Interesting the different spins you hear out there.

This from NBC..

Quote
MADISON, N.C. — Remington, the gun maker beset by falling sales and lawsuits tied to the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre, has reached a financing deal that would allow it to continue operating as it seeks Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

The maker of the Bushmaster AR-15-style rifle used in the Connecticut shooting that left 20 first-graders and six educators dead in 2012, said Monday that the agreement with lenders will reduce its debt by about $700 million and add about $145 million in new capital.

The company was cleared of any wrongdoing in the shooting, but investors repulsed by the massacres distanced themselves from the company's owner, investment firm Cerberus Capital Management. Cerberus acquired the gun maker in 2007, just when gun sales began to skyrocket.

Firearm background checks, a reliable barometer of gun sales, had risen steadily for at least a decade.
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Offline mountainman

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2018, 08:22:49 AM »
It was inevitable, they have been putting out garbage for several years now.  Bad management making poor business decisions and alienating their customers.   

Couple with recall rollouts every couple years combined with strong competition in the market. Diversifying many direction..recipe for trouble..
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Offline dwils233

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2018, 09:57:23 AM »
They’re bankrupt mostly because when Cerberus bought them about 10 years ago, they sucked all of the cash out of the company and then saddled it with billions of dollars of debt. Much like Daimler did to Chrysler.

This is why. Sub-par products and a decline in demand, competition, recalls don't help but at the end of the day it was huge debt that they couldn't recover from. My mafia analogy is that the debt was the cement shoes, the rest is just water.
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Offline eastsidemallard74

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2018, 10:06:40 AM »
Interesting how there is no recovery money for them like the auto manufacturers!!!!!!!!!! But I guess that's because they sell guns, not cars. There was a rumor in Moses that they were going to be building a plant here to build guns. Maybe this is why that rumor died off.

Online JimmyHoffa

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2018, 10:19:09 AM »
It was inevitable, they have been putting out garbage for several years now.  Bad management making poor business decisions and alienating their customers.
Probably part of it.  I know that the Remington stuff from the 70's and 80's was still pretty good.  Then around the early 90's started putting more plastic and fit/finish not as high.  Just kept getting worse.  Last new one I looked at you could see the seem lines in the plastic from the mold and hear clicking noises when you moved it around.

Offline Knocker of rocks

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2018, 11:12:30 AM »
They’re bankrupt mostly because when Cerberus bought them about 10 years ago, they sucked all of the cash out of the company and then saddled it with billions of dollars of debt.
:yeah:

I would say the companies failures have more to do with take-overs, debt saddleing, greenmail protection, movement of manufacturing locations, products and a drop in sales following what I would call panic buying during the Obama administration.

Offline kselkhunter

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2018, 11:38:00 AM »
Remington's significant revenue reduction eliminated their ability to service their large debt load.  Hopefully the restructure gets them healthy.  But the industry in general is having a down stretch. Smith & Wesson sales are down 36% the past year, Ruger's down 25%. 

Offline bullfisher

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2018, 12:52:21 PM »
Nobody wants to spend $700 for a rifle that needs rebuilt just to shoot straight. And instead of addressing their issues, they just kept pumping garbage into the market for another decade.. They baisically invented the need for the blueprinting industry..   :dunno:

Offline NRA4LIFE

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2018, 01:21:10 PM »
Good riddance if they went away.  My dad always swore by their rifles and they were nothing but trash.  He always, every year it seemed had problems with them.  I do not own a single Remington firearm.  Pure garbage in my opinion.
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Offline Special T

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2018, 01:47:39 PM »
They’re bankrupt mostly because when Cerberus bought them about 10 years ago, they sucked all of the cash out of the company and then saddled it with billions of dollars of debt.
:yeah:

I would say the companies failures have more to do with take-overs, debt saddleing, greenmail protection, movement of manufacturing locations, products and a drop in sales following what I would call panic buying during the Obama administration.
KoR I think those are the big reasons. Older businesses are not as flexible to the changes in the market.

What do you think was thier most innovative product that has hit the market?
None jump out at me. And I can think of several other of thier competitors that did especially when you take into account that the awesome gun sales couldn't last forever...

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Offline 724wd

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2018, 02:10:18 PM »
What do you think was thier most innovative product that has hit the market?
None jump out at me. And I can think of several other of thier competitors that did especially when you take into account that the awesome gun sales couldn't last forever...

wasn't their R51 supposed to the cats meow? what a godawful ugly unit that was!!!

Offline Special T

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2018, 02:23:38 PM »
A horrible flop.
My favorite innovation when sales were awesome for gun manufactures... The 17 HSM. They were selling all the guns and ammo the could... so Winchester bought a cement nail gun blank plant &started making cartridges!

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Offline Knocker of rocks

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2018, 09:07:11 PM »
KoR I think those are the big reasons. Older businesses are not as flexible to the changes in the market.

What do you think was thier most innovative product that has hit the market?


I actually can't speak about Remmington.  Bushmasters are a cool frame, with plenty of similar competition.   Classic Marlins are what I like, so people like me aren't really looking for innovation, what we want is quality and availability.  Marlin has not been able to do either, and their product line is in a major contraction.  They've dumped the .444 and the .450 in the last 3/4 of a decade, and only now have made 1894 pistol caliber guns easily available.

It will be interesting in what the lever gun builders like Wild West do if Marlins again become hard to get, I think that Marlin 1895 and 1894's were there platform of choice.  Win lever guns seem really crappy, that lever grip safety just comes off as poor workmanship at first blush.

Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2018, 09:19:02 AM »
I've got a garbage Rem 700 bought new in 2016.  Shoots 1/2 minute and better with a JB Weld bed job. 

I agree it would be nice if they'd put a bit more into the stock and trigger but I could gripe about fit, finish, trigger etc on almost every factory offering.
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Offline Stein

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2018, 09:21:24 AM »
I shoot a 700 purchased about seven or eight years ago, great rifle once I dumped the trigger and stock.  Anyway, the bankruptcy had nothing to do with firearms or sales, the company was looted.  Buy a good company, drain the cash, load it up with debt and then push it over a cliff.

Offline BULLBLASTER

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2018, 10:37:08 AM »
I've got a garbage Rem 700 bought new in 2016.  Shoots 1/2 minute and better with a JB Weld bed job. 

I agree it would be nice if they'd put a bit more into the stock and trigger but I could gripe about fit, finish, trigger etc on almost every factory offering.
:yeah:
I am not of the camp that says they are all garbage. I bought a cheap adl from Walmart in 2016 and with handloaded it is a 1/2-3/4 moa shooter. Even in the cheap plastic stock that came with it. I did put it into a magpul stock and am currently selling it but not at all because I am not happy with the gun.

I will say that I think Remington has been left in the dust on new innovations in the industry. Their actions haven’t changed for ever. They are good but they have been stagnant while competition has been improving lots lately.  :twocents:

Offline The scout

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Re: Remington bankruptcy today
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2018, 10:43:35 AM »
Its been a long time since I have heard of anyone shooting well with a factory Remington rifle that had to do some work to it, bed job trigger...  something to get it shooting sub moa. hopefully they can get it together and start putting out a quality product once again

 

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