collapse
Elk Hunting University Headin West

Author Topic: Out of the points game  (Read 6202 times)

Offline ctwiggs1

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2009
  • Posts: 2515
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2018, 09:08:45 AM »
There's little argument that the system must change.

That said.... If you do get drawn, it's still the least expensive quality tag you'll draw.

Online Stein

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Posts: 3488
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2018, 09:43:21 AM »
Not much to add other than I also wish we would go to a system where you can only enter for one permit.  Jack the price up to make it revenue neutral and the system would at least limp along for another few years before even that broke down.

Too many people, too few animals and both seem to be going in the wrong direction.

Offline elkspert

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 172
  • Location: rochester,wa
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2018, 10:03:25 AM »
Not much to add other than I also wish we would go to a system where you can only enter for one permit.  Jack the price up to make it revenue neutral and the system would at least limp along for another few years before even that broke down.

Too many people, too few animals and both seem to be going in the wrong direction.

Agree 100%..
I hope when I die my wife doesn't sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them.

Offline Skillet

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 4004
  • Location: Sitka / Everett
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2018, 10:21:40 AM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:

KABOOM Count - 1

"The ocean is calling, and I must go."

Offline Ridgeratt

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 3409
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2018, 10:24:40 AM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:

 :yeah:

Eliminate the points. Everyone is at zero. Make it so you can't Gamble on credit. If you choose to put in for the tag it's money up front.

Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 17502
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2018, 10:40:58 AM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:
The odds do decrease for an individual with points near the upper end. For those at the bottom they increase: going from one year to two years increases "names in the hat" from one to four. (That's why those at the upper levels suffer.)

Although the odds may still be small, someone with 20 points has a much better chance of drawing than someone with one point.

I can understand people walking away, but their odds at that point get really low. ;)
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Online gee_unit360

  • HuntinHard
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 354
  • Location: The other side of the canyon
  • HuntinHard
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2018, 11:16:50 AM »
I couldn't even draw peaches ridge with 21 points! 12 points is just getting into the game man! Tell him good luck!  :chuckle:

This is why I would support a change in the way Wa does the point system. We are past the sweet spot of drawing quality tags and now there are more poeple coming in to most draws then the one point squared you are going to receive so really your odds are going down every year now. It should be like Idaho were you get to pick one and that’s it. It would eliminate hundreds of applications and improve odds in each category.  :twocents:

To answer your question? If he feels that strongly then just don’t put in!
^^^^This.  :tup:

Agreed!!!

Offline Skillet

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 4004
  • Location: Sitka / Everett
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2018, 11:35:15 AM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:
The odds do decrease for an individual with points near the upper end. For those at the bottom they increase: going from one year to two years increases "names in the hat" from one to four. (That's why those at the upper levels suffer.)

Although the odds may still be small, someone with 20 points has a much better chance of drawing than someone with one point.

I can understand people walking away, but their odds at that point get really low. ;)

All true points, technically. For each draw, there's a different point at which your annual improvement in odds starts going negative. 

But it seems to me this discussion is more about a guy who has probably passed that point and just wants a way out.  How a person sees the solution to their diminishing odds depends on what they value, I suppose.  I see too often people who say something like "I'm going out of state once I cash these points in."  If hunting out of state is really the goal, they would do well to just start planning those out of state hunts and forget about trying to make something out of all of the years of not drawing in WA.  We only have so many hard charging huntable years in our bodies, unfortunately. 

Good luck to all who are still hanging in there, WDFW appreciates your dedication!  :chuckle:
KABOOM Count - 1

"The ocean is calling, and I must go."

Offline Special T

  • Truth the new Hate Speech.
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Explorer
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 18955
  • Location: Skagit Valley
  • Make it Rain!
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
    • Silver Arrow Bowmen
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2018, 11:54:12 AM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:
That is th reason why I don't currently put in for the draw system.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

Confucius

Offline trophyhunt

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 10594
  • Location: Wetside
  • Groups: Wa Wild Sheep Life Member
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2018, 12:04:58 PM »
I'm hoping someday they will either eliminate points or go to a system like Wyoming. 
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline Timberstalker

  • Busch Lite Rocks
  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Apr 2008
  • Posts: 6797
  • Location: Tri-Cities
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2018, 12:19:49 PM »
I'm hoping someday they will either eliminate points or go to a system like Wyoming.

You and I need to burn our 21 Q-Points first. :tup:
If you aint hunting, you aint livin'

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+22)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 37809
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2018, 12:38:01 PM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:
That is th reason why I don't currently put in for the draw system.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Then you might as well plan on never putting in again.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 17502
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2018, 12:40:20 PM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:
The odds do decrease for an individual with points near the upper end. For those at the bottom they increase: going from one year to two years increases "names in the hat" from one to four. (That's why those at the upper levels suffer.)

Although the odds may still be small, someone with 20 points has a much better chance of drawing than someone with one point.

I can understand people walking away, but their odds at that point get really low. ;)

All true points, technically. For each draw, there's a different point at which your annual improvement in odds starts going negative. 

But it seems to me this discussion is more about a guy who has probably passed that point and just wants a way out.  How a person sees the solution to their diminishing odds depends on what they value, I suppose.  I see too often people who say something like "I'm going out of state once I cash these points in."  If hunting out of state is really the goal, they would do well to just start planning those out of state hunts and forget about trying to make something out of all of the years of not drawing in WA.  We only have so many hard charging huntable years in our bodies, unfortunately. 

Good luck to all who are still hanging in there, WDFW appreciates your dedication!  :chuckle:
Agreed. I hunt in several other states and don't count on drawing Washington permits, although I still apply in several categories. For instance, the vast majority of Washington applicants for OIL (NOIL?) permits will never draw. If you really want to hunt moose in your lifetime, apply in Idaho. Maybe you'll also get lucky and draw in Washington but don't count on it. :twocents:
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Oh Mah

  • Non-Hunting Topics
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 3165
  • Location: PNW
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2018, 12:42:21 PM »
Not much to add other than I also wish we would go to a system where you can only enter for one permit.  Jack the price up to make it revenue neutral and the system would at least limp along for another few years before even that broke down.

Too many people, too few animals and both seem to be going in the wrong direction.
Good idea,Which one would you put in for?Oh and what makes it so everyone else doesn't pic that same one making odds much worse than they already are?  :bash: Same same every year,i want,me me me.NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE IN PARTICULAR.
"Boss of the woods"

Offline trophyhunt

  • Site Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 10594
  • Location: Wetside
  • Groups: Wa Wild Sheep Life Member
Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2018, 12:57:05 PM »
I'm hoping someday they will either eliminate points or go to a system like Wyoming.

You and I need to burn our 21 Q-Points first. :tup:
tru dat!!!!    23 this year 😬
“In common with”..... not so much!!

 

* Recent Topics

Well I don’t need to worry about a base for now by Evil_EdwardO
[Today at 07:30:04 AM]


Cougar population in WA state over time? by wolfbait
[Today at 07:28:46 AM]


Hunters Beware: Landlocking Public Access by wolfbait
[Today at 07:22:30 AM]


youth and senior hunts for pheasants coming up by Special T
[Today at 07:07:31 AM]


Washington food plot growers by Special T
[Today at 07:05:56 AM]


2018, ELK, Post them here! by mburrows
[Today at 06:59:16 AM]


2018 Deer, post them here by wjbiddi05
[Today at 06:52:04 AM]


Deep fried trout by 10mmg
[Today at 06:44:31 AM]


WTT Bullets (Nosler, Barnes) by Emptyhanded
[Today at 06:27:46 AM]


Deer on JBLM? by biggfish
[Today at 06:26:56 AM]


Wts wtt DPMS Panther AR15 $475 by Woodchuck
[Today at 06:20:19 AM]


First elk in the books by ruttnbuck
[Today at 06:20:15 AM]


Sheep Tag, Yahoo by Falcon
[Today at 06:12:11 AM]


Last meal by n_mathews13
[Today at 05:31:59 AM]


Keeping your feet dry? by Tim in Wa.
[Today at 05:20:48 AM]


To kill or not to kill by Huntingtony
[Today at 01:19:38 AM]


What are the main differences hunting BT vs WT? by Huntingtony
[Today at 01:17:57 AM]


Wall Tents Tips and Tricks by follow maggie
[Yesterday at 11:39:59 PM]


Best out of state over the counter deer tag by Bigshooter
[Yesterday at 11:22:59 PM]


Best Speed Loader by JakeLand
[Yesterday at 11:20:34 PM]