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Author Topic: Out of the points game  (Read 3264 times)

Offline ctwiggs1

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2018, 09:08:45 AM »
There's little argument that the system must change.

That said.... If you do get drawn, it's still the least expensive quality tag you'll draw.

Offline Stein

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2018, 09:43:21 AM »
Not much to add other than I also wish we would go to a system where you can only enter for one permit.  Jack the price up to make it revenue neutral and the system would at least limp along for another few years before even that broke down.

Too many people, too few animals and both seem to be going in the wrong direction.

Offline elkspert

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2018, 10:03:25 AM »
Not much to add other than I also wish we would go to a system where you can only enter for one permit.  Jack the price up to make it revenue neutral and the system would at least limp along for another few years before even that broke down.

Too many people, too few animals and both seem to be going in the wrong direction.

Agree 100%..
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Offline Skillet

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2018, 10:21:40 AM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:

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Offline Ridgeratt

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2018, 10:24:40 AM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:

 :yeah:

Eliminate the points. Everyone is at zero. Make it so you can't Gamble on credit. If you choose to put in for the tag it's money up front.

Offline Bob33

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2018, 10:40:58 AM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:
The odds do decrease for an individual with points near the upper end. For those at the bottom they increase: going from one year to two years increases "names in the hat" from one to four. (That's why those at the upper levels suffer.)

Although the odds may still be small, someone with 20 points has a much better chance of drawing than someone with one point.

I can understand people walking away, but their odds at that point get really low. ;)
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Offline gee_unit360

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2018, 11:16:50 AM »
I couldn't even draw peaches ridge with 21 points! 12 points is just getting into the game man! Tell him good luck!  :chuckle:

This is why I would support a change in the way Wa does the point system. We are past the sweet spot of drawing quality tags and now there are more poeple coming in to most draws then the one point squared you are going to receive so really your odds are going down every year now. It should be like Idaho were you get to pick one and that’s it. It would eliminate hundreds of applications and improve odds in each category.  :twocents:

To answer your question? If he feels that strongly then just don’t put in!
^^^^This.  :tup:

Agreed!!!

Offline Skillet

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2018, 11:35:15 AM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:
The odds do decrease for an individual with points near the upper end. For those at the bottom they increase: going from one year to two years increases "names in the hat" from one to four. (That's why those at the upper levels suffer.)

Although the odds may still be small, someone with 20 points has a much better chance of drawing than someone with one point.

I can understand people walking away, but their odds at that point get really low. ;)

All true points, technically. For each draw, there's a different point at which your annual improvement in odds starts going negative. 

But it seems to me this discussion is more about a guy who has probably passed that point and just wants a way out.  How a person sees the solution to their diminishing odds depends on what they value, I suppose.  I see too often people who say something like "I'm going out of state once I cash these points in."  If hunting out of state is really the goal, they would do well to just start planning those out of state hunts and forget about trying to make something out of all of the years of not drawing in WA.  We only have so many hard charging huntable years in our bodies, unfortunately. 

Good luck to all who are still hanging in there, WDFW appreciates your dedication!  :chuckle:
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Offline Special T

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2018, 11:54:12 AM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:
That is th reason why I don't currently put in for the draw system.

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2018, 12:04:58 PM »
I'm hoping someday they will either eliminate points or go to a system like Wyoming. 
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Offline Timberstalker

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2018, 12:19:49 PM »
I'm hoping someday they will either eliminate points or go to a system like Wyoming.

You and I need to burn our 21 Q-Points first. :tup:
If you aint hunting, you aint livin'

Offline jackelope

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2018, 12:38:01 PM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:
That is th reason why I don't currently put in for the draw system.

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Then you might as well plan on never putting in again.
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My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Bob33

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2018, 12:40:20 PM »
That's the big problem with points - people feel like they are valuable, like they are an investment they would like to eventually cash out.

1. Points in WA are nothing other than a tally of how many years you paid for a lottery ticket and didn't win. 


2.  The odds of drawing the most popular hunts are going down every year at a faster rate than the increase of squaring your additional point improves it.

Once people realize these two things, it becomes easier to walk away from the system and put energy into hunting out of state.

 :twocents:
The odds do decrease for an individual with points near the upper end. For those at the bottom they increase: going from one year to two years increases "names in the hat" from one to four. (That's why those at the upper levels suffer.)

Although the odds may still be small, someone with 20 points has a much better chance of drawing than someone with one point.

I can understand people walking away, but their odds at that point get really low. ;)

All true points, technically. For each draw, there's a different point at which your annual improvement in odds starts going negative. 

But it seems to me this discussion is more about a guy who has probably passed that point and just wants a way out.  How a person sees the solution to their diminishing odds depends on what they value, I suppose.  I see too often people who say something like "I'm going out of state once I cash these points in."  If hunting out of state is really the goal, they would do well to just start planning those out of state hunts and forget about trying to make something out of all of the years of not drawing in WA.  We only have so many hard charging huntable years in our bodies, unfortunately. 

Good luck to all who are still hanging in there, WDFW appreciates your dedication!  :chuckle:
Agreed. I hunt in several other states and don't count on drawing Washington permits, although I still apply in several categories. For instance, the vast majority of Washington applicants for OIL (NOIL?) permits will never draw. If you really want to hunt moose in your lifetime, apply in Idaho. Maybe you'll also get lucky and draw in Washington but don't count on it. :twocents:
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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2018, 12:42:21 PM »
Not much to add other than I also wish we would go to a system where you can only enter for one permit.  Jack the price up to make it revenue neutral and the system would at least limp along for another few years before even that broke down.

Too many people, too few animals and both seem to be going in the wrong direction.
Good idea,Which one would you put in for?Oh and what makes it so everyone else doesn't pic that same one making odds much worse than they already are?  :bash: Same same every year,i want,me me me.NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE IN PARTICULAR.
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Re: Out of the points game
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2018, 12:57:05 PM »
I'm hoping someday they will either eliminate points or go to a system like Wyoming.

You and I need to burn our 21 Q-Points first. :tup:
tru dat!!!!    23 this year 😬
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