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Author Topic: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...  (Read 4612 times)

Offline bearhunter59

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Can someone explain or clarify which of the modern muzzleloaders being offered for sale in this state, are legal to use in this state, according to their "clearly defined" rules????

Do any of the modern ones actually have a "...wheellock, match-lock, flintlock, or percussion using original style percussion caps that fit on the nipple AND are exposed to the elements."

"In-line muzzleloaders are legal only if ignition uses original style percussion caps that fit on the nipple."
"Shot shell and 209 primers are not legal."

So I'm confused....I thought an "inline" muzzleloader didn't leave the percussion cap "exposed" to the elements?
Don't ALL of these new muzzleloaders use the "shot shell" or "209 Primers"?

Just wanted to get this straight in my head before I consider go blackpowder next year...


Offline jackelope

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 11:14:48 AM »
t/c black diamond
knight bighorn
remington 700 something or other
the one for sale in the classified section
i think winchester makes a model 70 style muzz

i'm sure there's more
pretty much if you go to gi joes, the  ones you will see for sale there are legal, and if you look in cabelas or something, i see now they notate that they are "restricition legal" or something like that.
" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

Offline HntnFsh

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2007, 11:24:31 AM »
There are a lot of inlines that are legal.Most notably the ones mentioned.Its pretty eay to tell if the cap is exposed by looking at the m/l

Most inlines have interchangeable breah plugs and caps so you can use musket caps or #11 caps.

A lot of guys are using musket caps but I have had great luck with the Dynamit Nobel caps that are available.Ive been using them for 5 or 6 years

Offline 50CalJim

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2007, 12:02:31 PM »
Just make sure you talk to someone who actually knows what they are talking about. A friend of mine who is kinda hard headed didn't listen to me a went ahead and ordered Him & Hers Muzzys from Cabelas and you guessed it they were illegal and useless. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

Offline bearhunter59

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2007, 12:28:13 PM »
Kinda my point, 50Cal....just because they sell it in this state, doesn't make it legal...A perfect example is most of the crab, shrimp, and crawdad traps that are sold in this state are not legal as bought because they do not have an "escape ring".  You have to actually modify each one to be legal.  But, if you ask most any of those clowns at Joes', SportsCo, or Sportsmens Warehouse, they'll tell you everything is legal that they sell.

Also, it was my impression from the majority of the "inlines" that I looked at, that the percussion cap is not "expose" once the gun is ready to fire.

HntnFsh states that "most inlines have interchangeable breach plugs and caps, so you can use musket caps or #11 caps."  Again, it makes me question how many of the people buying these guns are actually using them "legally", and how many of them are using them with those 209s, which are not legal.  It's a pretty good guarantee that those clowns at the local stores aren't explaining that to the guy buying his first muzzleloader in this state.

It's been my experience that thoses guys just want to sell you the thing.  They don't give a rats ass if it's legal to use in this state.  Heck, they sell crossbows at those stores too, and I know those aren't legal for anything in this state.

Offline jackelope

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2007, 12:52:26 PM »
I  said gi joes. i said that because the only muzzleloaders i have ever seen for sale at gi joes are t/c black diamonds and knight bighorns. they are legal.
i'd think if you were going to go to joe's to buy a gun, you'd already have done your homework and know what you want going in...not have to take the advice from the 17 year old who's never even shouldered the weapon.

those rifles...if you look at them when the gun is ready to fire have a small opening or gap where you can see the cap, therefore are exposed to the elements. most of the legal in-line rifles for wa. are a bolt-action style that i've seen and the exposed ignition is obvious.
i am by no means a muzzleloader expert, hell i don't even own one, but i been looking at them to pick one up one of these days.
i did not mention sportsmens because they probably do sell illegal for washington muzzleloaders.

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

Offline royalhntr

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2007, 01:33:29 PM »
LOL.... I worked at the Northgate GI Joe's for six months in 2005.  The main reason was because of a trip where my hunting buddy and I went to get some ammunition for his 300 win mag rifle. Needless to say I had to use a childrens play arrow to physically point out the box of ammo we needed from behind the counter. :P  After that I decided that place needed someone with some knowledge that had actually hunted before! There were quite of few people that came and went while i worked there, and some of them knew there stuff and some didn't. There is alot to know because there are so many products, for both hunting and fishing. Not all of the fishermen hunt and vice versa. They try to hire folks that know both, but on any given day you might get the guy who knows everything about flyfishing, and nothing about hand reloading.  You just have to ask if anyone else might have experience in the activity that you are interested in, even if you have to go back the next day...... I have been trying to track down a rifle that the store doesn't normally sell for 3 weeks now. And today I finnally got someone who knew what they were doing and is finding out for me.  So, some of them know and some don't.  Just don't ask the guys or gals in black pants, they are the merch crew and have a hard time telling the difference between where to put shotgun shells and duck calls....No not on the big game isle.  Oh, and crossbows are legal in this state if you are a disabled hunter, even from your vehicle.....

Offline LOVEMYLABXS

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2007, 03:41:46 PM »
Just but a Hawkins and you won't have any problems  :chuckle: but remember you CAN'T use the jacketed bullets they must be lead.
Scratch a dog once and you'll have a job for life and life is good.....  Mike

Offline jimbow

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2007, 04:30:00 PM »
I recommend you buy the T/C Black Diamond.  Use 209 caps and you'll never have a problem.  I've used mine for years with 777 powder and have never experienced any type of ignition problem.  Use all lead bullets, preferably a sabot type.  I use Harvester 330 gr. flat nosed hard cast bullets.  Very accurate and great penetration.

Offline 50CalJim

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2007, 05:41:34 PM »
209 primers are not legal !!!! :beatdeadhorse:

Offline Wea300mag

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2007, 06:03:55 PM »
Mr. 50CalJim, maybe you could be more constructive with your replies and let us know what you would recommend for a legal primer. :tung:
Keep your nose in the wind and your eyes on the skyline

Offline 50CalJim

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2007, 07:00:55 PM »
I would recommend #11 caps & Musket caps,I think you have bigger concerns for instance filling your Raffle tag. I sure hope you don't  choke and shoot a dink because everybody is watching you. :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

Offline jimbow

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2007, 08:44:02 PM »
My mistake gentlemen.  I have only ever used #11 caps.  209 primers are definitely NOT legal in Washington.  The #11's work great with the inlines.  Musket caps burn a bit hotter, and are larger so easier to handle (especially in the cold.) 
  :o

Offline Geno

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2007, 06:54:04 PM »
Let's try and keep this website clean and friendly. If you get the urge to punch below the belt then head over to Monstermuleys, there are plenty of folks there that enjoy the verbal banter. :) 

Offline billythekidrock

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2007, 07:28:34 PM »
 :dunno:




Offline 50CalJim

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2007, 08:58:09 PM »
Geno if your talking about Wea300Mag & myself giving each other crap well I'm going to keep giving him a hard time until he does that Raffle tag proud by hunting as hard as possible. Just so you know we're hunting partners & friends no harm done.

Offline Wea300mag

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2007, 09:03:10 PM »
50CalJim is stretching the "friend" thing a bit :tung: :chuckle:
Keep your nose in the wind and your eyes on the skyline

Offline wastickslinger

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2007, 09:06:52 PM »
I was hoping that it was all in good humor.  :chuckle: Sometimes others can't tell when reading along. I know I do the same with a few other members on here and I'm sure others see it and take it the wrong way. I guess we will just all have to get to know one another. Look at me gettin all sentimental and crap. It must be late. I'm going to go watch TV. 

Offline Hunting Cowboy

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2007, 09:08:55 PM »
Now, you two "Sedro" boys be nice to each other. You're stirring up trouble!

(Good luck this weekend!)

Offline Geno

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2007, 04:55:20 AM »
Yes what I said was in good humor, hence the :) at the end of the sentence. Most of us frequent the M/M site and can appreciate the respect that us washington boys give each other. Your right about not knowing who knows who personally and who is actually throwing a real jab...hard to tell sometimes. No harm no foul :P I guess most could have interpeted what I said the wrong way too.

Offline billythekidrock

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2007, 05:34:13 AM »
Yea, it is hard to understand tone and feeling in a post at times, hence the  :dunno: on my last post..lol




Offline Chesapeake

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2007, 12:26:11 PM »
I'm new to the site but have bean playing with smoke poles for a while.

In my opinion the best Western state legal in line is the Knight Bighorn (formerly the Wolverine, and before that the Bighorn). If you buy it in the local stores it will come with the breach plug that can use standard nipples. If you order it out of a catalog you may need to specify you want the Western model.

The TC black diamond is another good choice. Several other manufacturers offer similar rifles.

For projectiles you must use non-jacketed, and new this year you can use polymer tips. Sabots are legal, but you will need to stay above the nominal caliber, or the minimum projectile weight. This usualy isnt a problem.

My recomendation to a guy looking to get into muzzleloading with an inline would be:

50 cal. Knight bighorn rifle (I prefer the thumbhole stock and the 28" barrel)
100 grains of 777 ffg powder
Musket cap
375 grain Buffalo Bullets Special Saboted Bullet (360 grain Extreme SPBT is good too)

If a guy was looking to go traditional I would recomend:

54 cal. Lyman Great plains rifle in Flint or cap lock
Actual black powder or substitute
Musket cap or flint
Patched round ball

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2007, 12:30:28 PM »
Is there any easy modification i do make on my T/C encore to make it legal?

Offline wastickslinger

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2007, 12:34:43 PM »
I like my T/C Black Diamond alot. My CVA Elkhorn is not a bad gun either(got it on a super clearance for a back up).

120 grains of Hodgdon pellets
295 grain Powebelt
musket cap

Offline jackelope

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Re: Confusion on what a "legal" muzzleloader rifle is in this state...
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2007, 03:35:59 PM »
Quote
Is there any easy modification i do make on my T/C encore to make it legal?

isn't the cap or primer or whatever sealed to the outside elements?
" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

 



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