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Author Topic: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent  (Read 8224 times)

Offline jager

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204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« on: April 08, 2009, 01:32:29 AM »
 

So far all I know about this is rumors. But according to *** in his posting of the sheep hunt details in an email, the "hunter" stopped in to his shop before the season asking advice about 680. *** remembered this guy and called him up to tell him about the sheep he found.

Heres the story:

Hi Thought I would pass on a few photos of a RAM our hunter took yesterday in the breaks. He does not want his name revealed as he is not into sheep hunting and wishes to remain anonymous.

I found this ram before the season and this was the largest ram I had ever seen in Montana . I was wishing I had a contact number for the governor's tag holder. I found out that he had hired an outfitter and not wanting to step on any toes I called a young man from Helena who had stopped by the shop and told me he had a tag.. He was a new resident to the state and it was his 1st time applying for sheep. I told him I had found a very big ram and that he needed to come up and try to get it .He told me he could not make it up as he did not have it in his plans . He had some phone calls to make and he could come up on Wednesday afternoon.

I was In the breaks filming a sheep hunt and had two friends helping me James *** and Blake ***. We decided it would be a good idea to keep a eye on this ram until the hunter could make it up. James went and camped on the ram and did not let it out of his sight for 4 days. He even slept on the hill with him. The hunter arrived on Wednesday afternoon we headed in to meet with James and make a plan to get on the Ram.

It was a 4 mile walk from the nearest road. James was out of water and food and was glad to see us. We Quickly put together a plan and made a run on the ram .He had a 300 yd shot but pulled it . His gun was new and he was nervous as this was the 1st ram he had seen. The rams ran out across a big valley and went over the ridge . We headed back and would try to find them in the morning .We split up in the morning and James spotted them not far from the last place we had seen them the night before. He signaled us to come over. We tried to get a shot at them and they blew out again but this time went several miles.

They were working their way through some low hills we made a run at them again and once again did not get off a shot We followed them for a mile and they slowed down and gave us a standing shot at 150 yards. He shot again and missed and then took one more shot on their way out of the canyon . James was still high pointing and once again saw which valley they went into so we made a run at them again. By now it was mid day and 85 plus degrees and very hot in the canyons. We came into the next canyon right on top of the rams and they were holding up in the shade.

This time his shot was just over 100 yards and he hit the ram. It ran off but not far, laid down and it was all over. The Hunter had no idea what he had and did not seem too excited but James, Blake and my self made up for that . We knew that this was a very special ram and would help strengthen the Montana sheep hunting program and help bring more money into the Mt. FWP program. Hopefully some day he will realize what a great trophy he has taken and the effort it takes to find and take a great trophy as this.

We Called this ram 44 magnum as I had guessed he was 44" long and the magnum for, well look at the photos!

The Ram was all of 44" and had a base pushing 18". His 1st qtr was over 17" and his short horn was over 40".

I have not skinned off the head yet and will give you a green score when I have a chance to put a tight tape on it........


       Does anyone have any more information about this undercover Montana FWP agent killing that ram in the breaks last year?

The agent (hunter) was part of a sting operation. Apparently the tag was pulled and given to the agent for the purpose of the sting operation.
It is illegal to film on public land without a permit. Although there was no money exchanged, the sale of the video I suppose could be construed as profit and he could be charged with filming without a permit and or guiding without a license.

If this story is true....I find it hard to believe that something like this was allowed to go so far.  What a terrible shame.   >:(    Taking a ram that size out of the herd under those circumstances is just unfathomable!!



« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 12:34:43 AM by jager »

Offline blacktailer

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Re: 204" Ram
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 08:21:38 AM »
Wow, what a massive ram!!!  That beast has everything.  A real shame the hunter doesn't even realize what he has.  Thanks for posting.
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Offline blacktailer

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Re: 204" Ram
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 08:32:12 AM »
Got to looking at that ram again.  Amazing as the size is, even more amazing how young that ram is. He looks to be 6-7 yearls old.  The genetics in that herd is nothing short of amazing. 
"A lazy man works twice as hard"

Offline huntnphool

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 10:17:13 AM »
That is a monster. Someone posted a couple pics and short story about this ram a couple weeks ago but I cant find it.
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Offline boneaddict

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 10:19:04 AM »
They don't have the hard winters there either so all they get to do is eat eat and eat. 

Offline Curly

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 10:27:40 AM »
So the "hunter" was an undercover agent and shot this nice ram as part of a sting?  WTF?  That seems like a bunch of crap to me.  No wonder he wasn't too excited.
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Offline popeshawnpaul

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 03:43:01 PM »
Yeah, I posted the picture and story previously at least once.  I have known about this since last fall and many people are mad about the situation.  The guide is under scrutiny because he was guiding without a license.  Apparently they thought they had to go through with the act to get him.  Crazy huh?

Offline Curly

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 03:46:56 PM »
Apparently they thought they had to go through with the act to get him.  Crazy huh?

It's un-fing believable........... :bash:
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Offline popeshawnpaul

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2009, 03:53:25 PM »
They got a guy that was illegally guiding for wildlife.  There are a number of 200" rams out there.  It's not ideal but it got the job done...

Offline bucklucky

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2009, 04:28:22 PM »
I wonder if the undercover agent got to keep his ram?

Offline popeshawnpaul

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2009, 04:35:18 PM »
I wonder if the undercover agent got to keep his ram?

No.  Evidence...

Offline boneaddict

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2009, 04:39:45 PM »
Should offer it to the Judge if they hang the guide, and charge the said guide with the trophy fee.

Offline bucklucky

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2009, 04:40:51 PM »
I wonder if the undercover agent got to keep his ram?

No.  Evidence...

Well no wonder hes not to thrilled.

Offline tlbradford

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2009, 04:41:06 PM »
You would hope that a law enforcement officer would be a better shot.  Sadly, this seems to be the norm rather than the exception for the few leo's I know.
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Offline M_ray

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2009, 04:50:53 PM »
Let me guess he's the one not smiling? I can't believe they couldnt bust him based on the simple fact they took him out to pursue getting the shot at it!!! He probably missed on purpose with the hopes that this ram would blow out and they wouldn't find it again so he could take a younger animal!
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Offline whacker1

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2009, 05:29:06 PM »
What a waste of a beautiful ram to get a conviction on what appears to be a misdemeanor (guessing on the charge).  I can't imagine that guiding without a license is a felony.

Offline Alan K

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2009, 05:31:01 PM »
Didn't the agent have a tag?  If so, why wouldn't he get the ram back after it was admitted as evidence?

Amazing ram though!

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2009, 05:49:36 PM »
That's Crazy!!!  :P

Offline jager

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2009, 06:19:55 PM »
I guess my problem is this.... The agent was not drawn, he was given the tag in order to make the hunt look legitimate. (took the opportunity from some one else) Then he shoots a huge ram. Not acceptable in any way... it doesn't matter if there are more 200 class rams. He killed that ram. That was certainly not needed for any type of conviction. I mean what kind of charge is guiding without a license? Filming on public land without a permit.... c'mon. Maybe he did break the law. but I don't see how this can be okay.
The "guide" is a prominent taxidermist and videographer. I think he took the guy to the sheep in order to film it. No fee. (profit from video maybe) I find it hard to believe that he would do something illegal and then film it to sell to the general public. Those videos are kind of high profile.
What did the auction holders tag sell for last year......$190,000?
I'm not a montana resident but if I was, I would be absolutely furious.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 09:27:55 PM by jager »

Offline Curly

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2009, 06:44:54 PM »
Jager, I agree 100%.
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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2009, 07:18:06 PM »
 :yeah: Agreed
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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2009, 11:20:57 AM »
What is the big deal about filming on public land? What are you hurting by filming? You mean to tel me that If I get drawn for a hunt in Montana I could not go scout with a video camera?
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Offline cackle

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2009, 12:08:50 PM »
I got these in an email a while back looks like the same guy to me
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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2009, 12:24:44 PM »
sure does.  I wonder how many hunting magazines he's been in.

Offline jager

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2009, 12:28:26 PM »
Yep, that's the guy.... taxidermist /videographer. Don't know why, but I don't really want to say his name even though his photo is on here. He's very well known

I think the filming without a permit charge pertains to commercial not private. FYI if you filmed a hunt and then tried to sell it you could be libel.  :dunno:
I've never heard of a charge in washington...but, you do need to have permits in the cities, BLM, DNR and national forest lands for commercial filming in this state as well...

Offline skybusterbo

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2009, 06:08:37 PM »
I guess my problem is this.... The agent was not drawn, he was given the tag in order to make the hunt look legitimate. (took the opportunity from some one else) Then he shoots a huge ram. Not acceptable in any way... it doesn't matter if there are more 200 class rams. He killed that ram. That was certainly not needed for any type of conviction. I mean what kind of charge is guiding without a license? Filming on public land without a permit.... c'mon. Maybe he did break the law. but I don't see how this can be okay.
The "guide" is a prominent taxidermist and videographer. I think he took the guy to the sheep in order to film it. No fee. (profit from video maybe) I find it hard to believe that he would do something illegal and then film it to sell to the general public. Those videos are kind of high profile.
What did the auction holders tag sell for last year......$190,000?
I'm not a montana resident but if I was, I would be absolutely furious.
:yeah:+3

Offline cascademountainhunter

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2009, 06:13:40 PM »
dang those are nice

Offline Diehard0123

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2009, 06:43:44 PM »
The story sounds bogus to me, just my :twocents:

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Offline jmx369

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Re: 204" Ram taken by undercover agent
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2009, 10:02:12 PM »
Is showing someone where wild game is at considered guiding? There wasn't any sort of exchange for services right? This all sounds a little suspect to me.

 


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